How much effort do you feel like you put into a driver swing?

[juststeve]

Cicero: I agree with what you wrote. I go back to persimmon and hitting the ball solid was much more important with those drivers than it is with what I play with now. Why though did Nick Price swing easier with persimmon than with modern club? It was to make solid center face contact more regularly. There may be 100%st swingers around here that make solid center face contact as often as they should, but not many I would wager. Maybe they should cut the effort level back a bit so they can strike the ball more solidly. Why didn't Tiger make the bounce the club off his back swing all the time? Because he couldn't make consistent contact doing that all the time.

 

My observation is there are lots of guys that really go after the driver, then show up in the bar bragging about the one drive they hit solid and long, while saying nothing about all of those others. If that floats your boat, have at it. If you want to score as well as you can, you need to limit your driver effort to that which permits repeating center face contact.

 

Steve

[deathbymuffin]

85-90% if I want to hit it long and straight. 100% if I want to hit it 120 yards offline to the left.

[robrey85]

I can't tell you how hard I go at the ball because I try to focus on being tension free and swinging smooth. I was watching KJ Choi and that guy looks like he's about to fall asleep during his swing, lol. I hit the ball way better when I setup, get everything ready, followed by a large exhale and then swing. My take away is slightly deliberate with a fairly aggro transition.

 

You should check out this book:

 

 

It's a great book and will probably help if you feel and have a lot of tension in the golf swing.

[gaw1f]

A lot.

[Shilgy]

Just Steve, I have always given you much more credit than that and I think you know better. Your post makes it sound like the 340+ was available to Jack on demand and he normally just bunted it out there. Palmers shot at Cherry Hills has been mentioned on the GC quite a bit this week. It was 305, downhill at altitude. So maybe played 260-270ish. Look at the tour stats. The players mostly have less than 10 mph from highest measured swing speed to slowest. So unless they never swing 100% their slowest is over 90%. I recall your instructor promotes fast, not hard. And that the lag, or coil, comes from speed. Why would he say that if he wanted you to bunt it?

[AFcelica]

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02401.html

 

the gap between fastest and slowest is right around 5% (5-8mph) for the majority

[buckeyefl]

How do you swing at 100% and still maintain tempo?

 

When swinging at 100% do you also feel like you are speeding up both the backswing and downswing?

Or is the feeling you just speed up the downswing w/o changing speed of backswing.

 

It's the same answer as running as fast as you can. You need to maintain the sequence and moving of body parts correctly...just faster.

 

I don't often come across ideas I haven't used or heard before when trying to explain the swing but that one is new and perfect. As a former runner I can't believe it never crossed my mind. Thanks

[Makuakane_Bear]

I find that feeling 90-95% effort gives me the fastest swings, longest and straightest drives, etc. For me the key feeling is completing my backswing, easing into my transition, then "exploding". That is just my feeling. Proper sequence is key to producing speed. And as my PGA pro says, "If you have the speed, use it!"

[birly-shirly]

Using a radar at the range, the fastest driver speed that I can repeat - going all out and with no regard to quality of strike or ballflight - is about 107. Dialling back the effort to what I feel gives me a chance to make my best shots gives me something around 100. So, I reckon that my on-course swing is somewhere in the 90 - 95% effort range.

 

It's interesting that several posters have put themselves in the same bracket - although subjectively some interpret this as close to all out, whereas others see this as dialing the effort back.

 

Interesting data points if you check out David Love 125mph slow motion by Carl Welty on youtube.

Carl posted some interesting comments on exactly this point.

 

 

"I had asked him [DLIII] to max it out, par 5 full power [125mph]! Then I asked him how he would swing on the first hole tomorrow and the speed was 117 mph. The same with Fred Couples max 123 mph crusing speed 115 mph. Greg Norman max 121 mph crusing speed 121 mph !"

[birly-shirly]

Driver should be nearly 100%.

 

The issue is wasted effort by being out of position.

If you can't swing at bear 100% and hit the middle of the club face most times, there are issue(s) and just swing easy is a bandaid.

 

When poeple say 80% they are talking lack of effort, not lack of swinging as fast as they can.

 

The difference between a regular "smooth" swing and 100% in good players is 5% or less.

 

Ironically, when poeple with swing issues swing harder, they are usually slower, as increased effort get the club farther out of position.

 

That's the long answer, the short answer is fix what's wrong with your swing.

 

I feel like someone needs to push back on Monte's comment or at least give him the opportunity to clarify what he is saying. In the many years I have been playing and watching others play I have never seen a great golfer who swung the driver 100%, 100% of the time. To the contrary what I have observed is great players making controlled swings at much less then 100% holding a substantially amount in reserve for special situations.

 

Some examples, in 1967, the earliest date I could find, Jack Nicklaus averaged 276 yards per drive over a 11 tournament period in which he was measured by IBM. Drives hit with a club other than a driver were disregarded. This same guy, using the same equipment won the long drive competition at the 1963 PGA with a drive of 341 yards 17". Later, he won the Open at St. Andrews driving to the back of the 356 yard 18th hole in the final round. I would suggest that the 341 and the 356 represent Nicklaus making good contact while swinging at 100% The 276 yards per drive is an indication of how hard he swung on most of his drives while trying to make the best score he could, and that was nothing like 100%..

 

Another example would be Arnold Palmer driving the first green at Cherry Hill the year he won his only open. The reason we remember it is because he hit the ball a lot longer on that shot than anyone thought he could. Another example of swinging at 100% and catching it solid, but not something he did drive after drive.

 

Think of the young Tiger Wood making that occasional all out swing where the club bounced off his back and look like it might snap in two, That is a swing that approached 100%, but not one he made very often.

 

For Monte, if he sees this, are you actually saying that you swing the driver as hard on the golf course while trying to post the best score you can, as you do in a long drive competition when you're trying to fit a bomb into a 60 yard wide grid? Or, is your long drive swing much close to 100% than your golf course swing?

 

As to long drivers in general, I have watched the televised finals several times and come away with two impressions. 1) Those guys are monster athletes that hit the call ball incredibly far. 2) They all ht to may really crooked shots, during the long drive competition, to be able to compete in any championship golf course. They are unable to hit shots that would consistently be in play as they approach 100%.

 

Job one off the tee is to get the ball in play. Job two is hitting it long, but if you swing 100% you won't get job one done very often.

 

Steve

 

One last data point - as regards the figures quoted here, in particular the high end.

 

Nicklaus says in his own book that his average driver carry was 260; that he could carry it 270 "really jumping out of his socks" but could not ever carry it 280 under normal conditions. I think a reasonable inference is that those 300+ yard drives were downwind, and/or high altitude (obviously not St Andrews then) and/or in very firm rollout. I also think that if 270 carry was Jack's max, then 260 must have been at the high end of the 90 - 95% effort bracket.

[RRFireblade]

It's not really about how much effort you put into it, it's more about where in the swing you put the effort.

 

One can reliably swing at near 100%, but you can't let that affect your tempo, transition or balance. Imo.

[Lefthook]

Someone needs to point out that change of speed equals change of effort squared. 90% of max speed requiers only 81% of max effort.

[stryper]

Someone needs to point out that change of speed equals change of effort squared. 90% of max speed requiers only 81% of max effort.

 

So if I give 90-ish% of max effort do I get 100% speed? Are you saying there's a point of diminishing return in effort after that then?

[Lefthook]

90 ish effort would give you ca 95% of max speed.

[juststeve]

Just Steve, I have always given you much more credit than that and I think you know better. Your post makes it sound like the 340+ was available to Jack on demand and he normally just bunted it out there. Palmers shot at Cherry Hills has been mentioned on the GC quite a bit this week. It was 305, downhill at altitude. So maybe played 260-270ish. Look at the tour stats. The players mostly have less than 10 mph from highest measured swing speed to slowest. So unless they never swing 100% their slowest is over 90%. I recall your instructor promotes fast, not hard. And that the lag, or coil, comes from speed. Why would he say that if he wanted you to bunt it?

 

Shilgy: I said nothing about Jack bunting it out there. What I maintain is that great players don't swing their drivers at 100% most of the time. I offered some facts, He averaged 276 off the tee over a sample of 11 tournaments, and hit it 341 yards 17 inches in a long drive contest. My proposed explanation is that he swung a lot harder in the long drive contest than he does when he is playing the golf course for the bast score. Since you don't like my proposed explanation for the facts I ask, do you have a better explanation? If you do, let's hear it.

 

As to your misunderstanding of what Manny teaches he teaches that to hit the ball further you must swing your arms faster. He does not teach that you should swing as fast as you can on every shot. Like Nicklaus he is aware that swinging at you maximum speed does not promote solid contact or accurate shots.

 

Steve

[Shilgy]

Just Steve, I have always given you much more credit than that and I think you know better. Your post makes it sound like the 340+ was available to Jack on demand and he normally just bunted it out there. Palmers shot at Cherry Hills has been mentioned on the GC quite a bit this week. It was 305, downhill at altitude. So maybe played 260-270ish. Look at the tour stats. The players mostly have less than 10 mph from highest measured swing speed to slowest. So unless they never swing 100% their slowest is over 90%. I recall your instructor promotes fast, not hard. And that the lag, or coil, comes from speed. Why would he say that if he wanted you to bunt it?

 

Shilgy: I said nothing about Jack bunting it out there. What I maintain is that great players don't swing their drivers at 100% most of the time. I offered some facts, He averaged 276 off the tee over a sample of 11 tournaments, and hit it 341 yards 17 inches in a long drive contest. My proposed explanation is that he swung a lot harder in the long drive contest than he does when he is playing the golf course for the bast score. Since you don't like my proposed explanation for the facts I ask, do you have a better explanation? If you do, let's hear it.

 

As to your misunderstanding of what Manny teaches he teaches that to hit the ball further you must swing your arms faster. He does not teach that you should swing as fast as you can on every shot. Like Nicklaus he is aware that swinging at you maximum speed does not promote solid contact or accurate shots.

 

Steve

Okay, differing opinions then. Yours is that Jack could hit out 340+ when he wanted to but averaged 270ish. Mine is that 270 or so was near max and 300+ was of conditions were right.

As to Manny I never said fast as you can, but he does not advocate 80% in any of the times I have seen him. Perhaps for you he did.

[northgolf]

How do you swing at 100% and still maintain tempo?

 

When swinging at 100% do you also feel like you are speeding up both the backswing and downswing?

Or is the feeling you just speed up the downswing w/o changing speed of backswing.

 

It's the same answer as running as fast as you can. You need to maintain the sequence and moving of body parts correctly...just faster.

 

I don't often come across ideas I haven't used or heard before when trying to explain the swing but that one is new and perfect. As a former runner I can't believe it never crossed my mind. Thanks

 

I equate it more to coming out of the blocks than once at full speed sprinting. You want to be at full speed when you get to impact, but you're starting from a dead stop when you begin your backswing.

[juststeve]

Shilgy: Our opinions differ because mine is grounded in fact, yours is not. It is a fact that in 1967 over a period of 11 tournaments Nicklaus averaged 276 yards per drive. It is a fact that at the 1963 PGA he won the long drive contest with a shot over 340 yards. It is also a fact that he drove the green of the 72 hole of the 1970 open, over 357 yards long. Those deviations from the average need an explanation. I have offered an explanation for those facts, (my opinion) you have not. I suspect that is because you have no reasonable explanation that is consistent with your belief system. Prove me wrong by explaining how Jack hit it so much further than average when he really needed to. .

 

I have never heard Manny place any percentage on how hard to swing. Neither have I. The 80% like the bunting the ball out there is just something you made up so you could put some meat in your argument. What I have said is that good players don't swing at the driver 100%, 100% of the time.

 

Manny did however express the opinion, in golf digest I think, that Tiger swung at the ball too hard and would be an even better player if he backed off for more control. How much to back off he didn't say.

 

Steve

[Shilgy]

Shilgy: Our opinions differ because mine is grounded in fact, yours is not. It is a fact that in 1967 over a period of 11 tournaments Nicklaus averaged 276 yards per drive. It is a fact that at the 1963 PGA he won the long drive contest with a shot over 340 yards. It is also a fact that he drove the green of the 72 hole of the 1970 open, over 357 yards long. Those deviations from the average need an explanation. I have offered an explanation for those facts, (my opinion) you have not. I suspect that is because you have no reasonable explanation that is consistent with your belief system. Prove me wrong by explaining how Jack hit it so much further than average when he really needed to. .

 

I have never heard Manny place any percentage on how hard to swing. Neither have I. The 80% like the bunting the ball out there is just something you made up so you could put some meat in your argument. What I have said is that good players don't swing at the driver 100%, 100% of the time.

 

Manny did however express the opinion, in golf digest I think, that Tiger swung at the ball too hard and would be an even better player if he backed off for more control. How much to back off he didn't say.

 

Steve

the 80% is from your belief that he "could" anyone he wanted, hit it 340. But averaged 270. So he averaged about 80%. Unless the 340 was not max either. By your logic Mike Austin max was 515. Or whatever his record was. Do you believe that as well? If not why not? Bubba and company are over 400 downhill at Kapalua. Palmer drove the green at Cherry Hills, downhill at altitude.

Neither of us will budge it appears so discussion done on my end.