Lay up?

[villa]

Do you?

I got into the bar after playing on Sunday & had a heated discussion with one of the members. He saw me hit my second shot into the par 5 12th (546 yards) and after hitting a good drive, I went for it in two with my second shot. I was about pin high in the bunker just right of the green after nailing a three wood (about 260). Had a horrible downhill lie in the bunker but hit a decent shot that kept rolling to about 10 feet. Left the putt short in the jaws and made a five. Could've been worse.

This particular member though, asked to see my card after the round and when he saw that i'd made a five, decided to lecture me on my course management. I can take constructive criticism and I fully understand what his point was but I play this game for fun. A few years ago I made the difficult decision of giving up my dreams of playing on tour and I decided to get a proper job and golf would be a hobby.

I very rarely unleash on my driver, I get the ball in play (normally about 270) and go from there. However I can't remember the last time I layed up anywhere. My argument is that i'd rather deal with the circumstances of a missed layup than the circumstances of a missed drive. It's no fun having to pitch out of the trees with your second shot on a par five but it is fun trying to get up and down for birdie from somewhere around the green. I've worked hard to become a decent ball striker and I love playing golf for fun (or occasionally for a little bit of money).

Bear in mind that my golf club does have more than a handful of wankers as members but this guy wouldn't let it lie. He even looked at with that dissapointed parent face and told me I could've achieved so much more!

Anyway, does anyone else play the same way? Who lays up and who doesn't? Forget the whole macho thing, i'm talking about the fun aspect of the game.

[CRutherford]

Lay Ups belong on the basketball court, and yes I read that from a WRX member's signature, although I can't remember who's it was. So whoever said that, thanks. LOL

 

IMHO Lay ups can be a very strategic tool, especially for anyone who is very dialed in on their distances.

[villa]

Lay Ups belong on the basketball court

 

That's funny.

 

I'd use it except being from England, half the people wouldn't know what a lay up in Basketball is.

[rufus mangler]

Lay ups are no fun. I mean, as long as your mortgage payment isn't riding on it, what the hey? You're only here once. May as well pound it, if you can.

 

I don't hit it 260, so I lay up and hit a club I have more trust in than my 3 wood. I sneak up on par 5's, and then I mug them.

[villa]

I don't hit it 260, so I lay up and hit a club I have more trust in than my 3 wood. I sneak up on par 5's, and then I mug them.

 

Nice mate.

 

I normally hit my 3 wood around the 240-245 mark. Just like to try and open my shoulders on that particular hole.

[czydj]

For me, it depends on what trouble is around the green. Bunkers and even deep rough are a go. Water, trees and OB are usually lay-ups.

[Navigator17]

No easy answer to lay-up or not...depends on the hole. Ive seen some 5's that require a almost perfect shot not to be in trouble, and some that are more forgiving. The risk/reward is in the eye of the beholder. I guess I've done both about the same amount of time.

[DRGJR72]

Only lay up if you have to.

 

Statistics show that the closer you are to the hole the better your chances are, bottom line. And I am sure that there will be someone on here that will say "well what about a downhill lie in a bunker versus a safe 100 yard shot"....I am speaking in general here. There are obvious times when you attempt to go for a par 5 and hit into a bunker, weird lie, into a hazard etc.....But generally speaking the closer you are to the hole the better chance you have to make it or get it up and down.

 

Plus there is nothing worse than laying up on a par five when you are in the go range.....

 

Dan

[EdmontonGolfer]

I look at it this way, and especially if you not being pressed in a game of Nassau or whatever you prefer to play...I'd rather be hitting out of a green side bunker or some rough than trying to get it close from 100 yards out. It's funny you brought this up actually. I was watching 'Playing Lessons with the Pros' on Golf Channel yesterday. Geoff Ogilvy was about 270 yards from the green on a par five after his drive. He said that there's trouble around the green, but it's easier to chip it close than trying to hit a wedge and stick it. The other thing he said was that you can't really go wrong with a par, even if you don't make eagle or birdie.

 

That being said, there are times when I do lay up. Most of the time it's when I know I can't get it there in two and leave it near the green or if the green is surrounded by water. You can't chip out of water. :friends:

[villa]

I look at it this way, and especially if you not being pressed in a game of Nassau or whatever you prefer to play...I'd rather be hitting out of a green side bunker or some rough than trying to get it close from 100 yards out. It's funny you brought this up actually. I was watching 'Playing Lessons with the Pros' on Golf Channel yesterday. Geoff Ogilvy was about 270 yards from the green on a par five after his drive. He said that there's trouble around the green, but it's easier to chip it close than trying to hit a wedge and stick it. The other thing he said was that you can't really go wrong with a par, even if you don't make eagle or birdie.

 

That being said, there are times when I do lay up. Most of the time it's when I know I can't get it there in two and leave it near the green or if the green is surrounded by water. You can't chip out of water. :friends:

 

Just what I was looking for. Isn't part of the fun of the game trying to avoid/carry the water!

 

That Geoff Ogilvy statement is exactly how I look at it.

[artfulgolfer]

villa nailed it for me too. Contrary to the opinion of many golfers I play with, I'd rather have a short shot in, even from a bunker, than be 100+ yards out with a full wedge in. I get it close to the pin more often w/ chips and pitches than with full approach shots, even if a wedge.

 

I ONLY lay up when the risk/reward ratio skyrockets. I love taking some risk... and I just love giving my 5-wood a huge rip to try to reach a par 5 in 2. Not long ago, I blocked my drive into a grove a eucs. I could have punched back out to the fairway and played for bogie or try to fit a 5-wood through some trees and over a lake to get within 80 yards of the par 5 green. I chose the ladder, nailed it, then pitched on and 1-putted for birdie!

 

I played a course on vacation in Whistler, BC last year and hooked up w/ some locals. On the par 5 18th I found myself about 220 yards out with a lake and bunkers protecting the green. One of the locals looked at me and said, "you didn't come all the way to Whistler to lay up did you?" I powered by 5-wood over the green, duffed my pitch and ended up with a double to miss breaking 80 by 1. No regrets.

 

That pretty much sums up my attitude every round... I didn't pay x amount of dollars for this round just to lay up!

 

In my 2 years of play, I have almost 10 eagles... almost all due to that go for it attitude. The guy who got me interested in playing 2 years ago is a very avid golfer who is much more conservative. 2 years ago, he was giving me 6 strokes a round. Now I give him 3.

 

Live a little!

[yoonie]

I know for most people laying it up takes fun out of the game, but I enjoy attacking a course strategically. Plus, there's a great amount of satisfaction in a perfectly executed lay up- when you leave yourself hte perfect distance, leave yourself an easy shot, and stick that wedge exactly where you want it. Not that I don't like to go for it, but I don't mind laying up nearly as much as most people seem to.

[mcon22]

I was just discussing this with a friend the other night. I've never consciously decided to lay up to a specific yardage. The way I've always looked at it, I'd rather be 60 yards out than 70, 90 rather than 100, or 130 rather than 150. Since the courses I play on don't have any water, I don't really see the point. Assuming the rough isn't at, like, Winged Foot levels, which it obviously isn't for me, I'd even take an 80 yard shot out of the rough over a 100 yard shot from the fairway.

[yoonie]

I was thinking that the diff b/w laying up and going for it meant something more like being in a greenside bunker vs. being 80 yards away on the fairway. For example, lets say you're not very good out of the sand, it might be a good idea to lay up to a distance where you have a comfortable shot to pin, rather than trying to hit a 170+ yard shot into a heavily bunkered green.

[dmboak]

If you're in the middle of the fairway at a manageable distance (not once in a lifetime shot distance), go for it. But if you're 275 out and you just "crushed" your drive 270, lay up and stop holding everybody up waiting for the green to clear. I see that happening WAY too much on the course today.

 

Me, anything inside 250 and in a decent lie, I'm going for it. Outside of 250, I have to see what's in front of the green.

[villa]

I was thinking that the diff b/w laying up and going for it meant something more like being in a greenside bunker vs. being 80 yards away on the fairway. For example, lets say you're not very good out of the sand, it might be a good idea to lay up to a distance where you have a comfortable shot to pin, rather than trying to hit a 170+ yard shot into a heavily bunkered green.

 

Good point. From my perspective though, i'm quite conservative off the tee. Get the ball in play and go from there. Must've been all those Faldo and Nicklaus videos I watched as a kid.

[Seve424]

I hate to layup but............

 

When I'm playing in money games with my friends I'll try shots pros wouldn't attempt. The "trick shot" as we like to call it.

 

When I'm playing in tournaments I play way more cautious.

 

I wouldn't listen to anything some yahoo in the clubhouse bar was saying to you.

[webmstrk9]

For me, it's about course management, if I know there is little to no penalty for going for the green in 2, then I will. If there are water or OB surrounding it, then I'm going to lay up. Now, understanding your abilities is something to consider, if your short game(chipping, bunker play, etc) is in the crapper, then I would shoot for a comfortable range, either a firm PW or 9i.

 

For me, it's just playing my game, I dont let anyone dictate what or how I play.

[Sean2]

I'm not a big hitter...yet, but I chip, pitch and putt very well. I've layed up on par 3's as well as par 4's (can't reach a green in two on a par 5). At the very worst I'll make a double, but I usually bogey the hole and occasionally par it. That keeps a big number off my scorecard.

 

For me it depends on the hole, and my honest assessment of my current abilities. I ruptured all the discs in my neck, missed an entire season of golf, and am now just finding my game again. I've lost a lot of distance, but what I've learned is patience and to play within myself.

 

For example, in my men's league my fellow players got greenside to a par 5 in two shots. It took me three shots. I made par, they made bogey. On every drive they were blowing it by me by 40 to 50 yards. I just ignore that and play my own game.

 

I was a 12.9, went to a 16.9, and am currently a 16.1.

 

There is no shame in laying up. It's YOUR game, not your playing partners'. Play within yourself, be patient, and you'll avoid the BIG number.

 

Hey, if I thought I could do it, I would!

[villa]

I wouldn't listen to anything some yahoo in the clubhouse bar was saying to you.

Don't get me wrong, I won't change anything because of what he said. He just wound me up a bit.

 

I'm not really talking about hitting it out of a pot bunker, 30 yards round a tree, over a crocodile infested river onto a 20 foot wide upturned saucer island green.

 

Really just talking about that long par 5 that we all come across. Do people take the 3 wood out of the bag to go for it, or lay up? I've always gone for it because in many ways it seems more sensible to me.

[yoonie]

I agree. Usually, in a situation like that (as long as your trust your 3 wood) I would go for it too, assuming there wasn't too much trouble around the green. However, my distance control with my wedges has been improving, so maybe iin the future I would be more comfortable with my chances of getting a 40 yard wedge shots within 8 feet than the possibility of chipping out of very penal rough (for example). The point I'm trying to get across is that there's a possiblity that laying up would not only take some risk out of hte play, but ALSO give you better chance to score (unless of course, you hit the perfect 3w) in some situations.

[villa]

I agree. Usually, in a situation like that (as long as your trust your 3 wood) I would go for it too, assuming there wasn't too much trouble around the green. However, my distance control with my wedges has been improving, so maybe iin the future I would be more comfortable with my chances of getting a 40 yard wedge shots within 8 feet than the possibility of chipping out of very penal rough (for example). The point I'm trying to get across is that there's a possiblity that laying up would not only take some risk out of hte play, but ALSO give you better chance to score (unless of course, you hit the perfect 3w) in some situations.

 

Fully agree mate and if I was on tour, doing it for a living, the 3 wood headcover would not be touched.

 

But we're not on tour, so isn't the possibility of making eagle more fun!

[thenewbie]

for me, its all about the hole and how I'm playing that day. I don't carry a 3 wood, but I hit the driver really far, and I can get 235-245 out of my 3 iron or 4 hybrid. if there's water near the green, forget about it, I don't want to even bring that into play if I don't have to.

 

I've reached a few par 5's with 3 iron-3 iron (dog-legs), and last week I reached a 560 yarder with driver-hybrid. there was water right in front of the green, but I felt confident so I went for it. :friends:

[diablojoe]

Only time I have ever laid up was in match play. If my opponent has mucked up his drive, I'll hit to the front of the green and challenge him to catch me.

[drew123]

hey there's got to be a reason that practically everytime a tour pro is within go distance they go for it. Think about it when was the last time you saw a tour pro lay up when they could've gotten there?

 

 

 

 

by the way I defineitly go for it.

[Chairman7w]

Villa, I think you're right in going for it. I think we all pretty much agree on that.

 

The time for decision making (for me) is on the drive. I don't hit my driver all that well, so it's often a better decision to me to tee off with my Hybrid, then groove a 5-iron down the middle and have a full wedge to the green.

 

But if I WAS within 3-wood distance, I sure as snot would go for it. That guy that gave you a hard time sounds like a real a%$.

[g8a_golf]

for me, it totally depends on the situation. most of the time, though, it is a lay up. if i'm 260 yards out, i know i can't hit my 3 wood that far, and if the trouble is long, that might be the play, but if i'm 260 out and the trouble is short, the lay up to the "comfort zone" will be played.

[hoganfan924]

Depends on so many things (trouble, weather, your state of mind, etc. etc.) and only the player should make that call. It sounds like you and I hit is similar distances.

 

If there's not much serious trouble (as in lost ball kind of trouble) around the green my philosophy is always "the closer the better" none of that "I'm going to lay up to my perfect SW distance" BS. I'd rather have a greenside bunker shot or even a short side chip than 100 yd. wedge.

 

Being the caliber of player that you are Villa, I'm sure you'll get up and down for birdie a good 50% of the time from around the green, but how often are you going to birdie from 100 yds? Maybe 25%?

 

Unless that guy that confronted you is or was a very, very good player (as in former tour pro), highly respected and better than you, he should have kept his mouth shut even if he thought your strategy wasn't the best.

 

On a related strategy note, I think it was Jimmy Demaret that said you should always try to make a birdie on a par 3 even at the risk of making a bogey because a birdie on a par 3 is the fastest way to make up shots on the field. As far as I'm concerned, similar thinking should apply to a par 5 regarding the lay up or go for it question. Of course at present my par 5 league scoring average is lower than my par 4 average (after four 9 hole rounds) so you can see I almost always go for it!

[iyan7]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it lay up that Tiger used as a strategy to win the British Open (don't know the year)? He was using irons off the tee and he controlled it very well.

[Sean2]

I believe it was Billy Casper, when he won his US Open, layed up on one of the par threes all four rounds. He made par all four days as well. He took double-bogey or worse out of the equation. Good course management.