What does the USGA Do Now?

[JaNelson38]

The USGA can start by putting the game of golf ahead of their egos.

[Ripvanwinkle]

After the USGA made the greedy deal with FOX I was sure I would never give them any of my money. But after trying to watch the U.S. Open this year I came to the realization that I was not interested in watching the best golfers in the world play four rounds of defensive golf.

The challenge of The Open is always the weather and golf played on historically proven golf courses. The Masters is a beautiful combination of defensive AND offensive golf. The PGA is probably what the U.S. Open should be...and the Players just gets better and better. But this? I'm happy that the USGA's panty weight officiating didn't rob Dustin from a win, but I just don't find this compelling anymore. It just isn't entertaining.

[HitEmTrue]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

Even the announcer mistakenly said that he had clearly not grounded the putter.

 

So they shouldn't have looked into it?

 

 

[SadTrombone]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

http://youtu.be/Q1XHYnYzN6k

 

The definitions section states a player has addressed their ball when they ground the club immediately in front of or behind the ball, whether or not they have taken their stance. Sure doesn't look like it was grounded to me based on this video. Is there one I didn't see?

[HitEmTrue]

He grounded it after his practice stroke, next to the ball. Not while addressing it.

[SadTrombone]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

http://youtu.be/Q1XHYnYzN6k

 

The definitions section states a player has addressed their ball when they ground the club immediately in front of or behind the ball, whether or not they have taken their stance. Sure doesn't look like it was grounded to me based on this video. Is there one I didn't see?

 

Just means he grounded without addressing.

 

Where did he ground it in that video? I certainly can't see it.

 

And once you've grounded it behind or in front of the ball, you've addressed it...by definition.

[SadTrombone]

He grounded it after his practice stroke, next to the ball. Not while addressing it.

 

So he never addressed his ball...

 

He never touched the ball...

 

He says he didn't move it or cause it to move...

 

So did his fellow competitor...

 

And the referee...

 

But the dude in the clubhouse watching a pixelated video said otherwise...

 

And I wonder why people want to change other simple rules like stroke and distance for OB. Maybe these rules and their application really ARE silly.

[Hawkeye77]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

http://youtu.be/Q1XHYnYzN6k

 

The definitions section states a player has addressed their ball when they ground the club immediately in front of or behind the ball, whether or not they have taken their stance. Sure doesn't look like it was grounded to me based on this video. Is there one I didn't see?

 

Just means he grounded without addressing.

 

Where did he ground it in that video? I certainly can't see it.

 

And once you've grounded it behind or in front of the ball, you've addressed it...by definition.

 

The video isn't complete, and addressing isn't the issue. Not understanding your argument, sorry.

[GeorgeHWB]

The PGA tour doesn't get to decide what a Major is. If they did, then they'd have already taken the PGA, US Open, and Masters and done away with them in favor of event that they were in charge of.

 

To the extent that the USGA gets to decide what a major is, I don't give a damn what they think. Complete assclowns.

[MadGolfer76]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

Even the announcer mistakenly said that he had clearly not grounded the putter.

 

So they shouldn't have looked into it?

 

He grounded it to the side, but not directly behind the ball. There is no way they could ever prove that Johnson caused his ball to move, so this isn't anything more than an opinion by a committee who took it upon themselves to overrule an official in the field (who made the right decision in the first place). The choice to apply that interpretation/decision or rely on the word of the two players in the group was up to them. They could have left it alone, but apparently molesting the proverbial beehive was the more desirable path forward for them.

 

In any case, don't you find it odd that they ruled that Johnson caused his ball to move and yet he played it out from the secondary spot it came to rest in? Shouldn't the ruling have been that it be replaced? If so, why didn't they DQ him at the end for signing for a lower score? It should have been one stroke for causing the ball to move, and (I think?) another for not replacing it before holing out? I'm not a rules nerd, so I admit I don't know what that particular reasoning should yield.

 

(And I'm not supporting that as a proper outcome either...)

[Hawkeye77]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it.

 

 

When the ref asked him if he had "grounded the club the club or anything," DJ said that he had not.

 

Yet he had grounded the club.

 

Even the announcer mistakenly said that he had clearly not grounded the putter.

 

So they shouldn't have looked into it?

 

He grounded it to the side, but not directly behind the ball. There is no way they could ever prove that Johnson caused his ball to move, so this isn't anything more than an opinion by a committee who took it upon themselves to overrule an official in the field (who made the right decision in the first place). The choice to apply that interpretation/decision or rely on the word of the two players in the group was up to them. They could have left it alone, but apparently molesting the proverbial beehive was the more desirable path forward for them.

 

In any case, don't you find it odd that they ruled that Johnson caused his ball to move and yet he played it out from the secondary spot it came to rest in? Shouldn't the ruling have been that it be replaced? If so, why didn't they DQ him at the end for signing for a lower score? It should have been one stroke for causing the ball to move, and (I think?) another for not replacing it before holing out? I'm not a rules nerd, so I admit I don't know what that particular reasoning should yield.

 

(And I'm not supporting that as a proper outcome either...)

 

Only responding to the last part, the rules/decisions give him a pass for not replacing if he got a ruling.

[HitEmTrue]

He grounded it after his practice stroke, next to the ball. Not while addressing it.

 

So he never addressed his ball...

 

He never touched the ball...

 

He says he didn't move it or cause it to move...

 

So did his fellow competitor...

 

And the referee...

 

But the dude in the clubhouse watching a pixelated video said otherwise...

 

And I wonder why people want to change other simple rules like stroke and distance for OB. Maybe these rules and their application really ARE silly.

 

The ref did not say he didn't cause it to move. The ref asked him if he grounded the club "or anything." DJ told him he had not, when in fact he had grounded it.

 

The ref did not have complete information.

 

I am not claiming DJ caused it to move, but that he could have.

[rafal]

This thread is full of hysteria and overreaction.

[Wraith]

They need to come out with an announcement that by next season they will have technology in place to make rulings at the time of the infraction.

 

And if they want to penalize a player for causing the ball to move without ever touching it, they need to change the rule again.....

 

I can get into some things I'd like to see them do for weekend golfers, but I don't feel like writing a novel.

 

They don't need technology. Interpretation and enforcement of the rules should be the same for all golfers.

 

If I am playing in my local league and my ball moves, we should resolve it on the green. There should be no technology involved.

 

Watching the tournament this week, I didn't see one player apply the rules without someone there to help them.

 

If a pro golfer can't take a drop without someone holding their hand, then how is a weekend golfer supposed to follow the rules?

 

The USGA is has decided to make the rules more complicated instead of simplifying them.

 

How hard is it to have a simple rule on the putting green. If you hit the ball with your putter and it moves it's a stroke. If the ball moves without being touched then just replace it.

 

I have to disagree slightly about the players use of the rules officials. I think in most cases (probably not all im sure some of them dont know the rules well enough) its not about having help its about making sure its done correctly. if it is deemed by the USGA after the round that it was done wrong retroactive penalty applied and because they have already signed their scorecard DQ. that would lose them thousands. in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars, if I had that on the line you best believe i would have the rules official stood right there making sure they are happy with how I acted.

[JaNelson38]

The ref did not say he didn't cause it to move. The ref asked him if he grounded the club "or anything." DJ told him he had not, when in fact he had grounded it.

 

The ref did not have complete information.

 

I am not claiming DJ caused it to move, but that he could have.

 

If a rules official that walks with every group doesnt have full control of a rules situation, why the hell are they even out there then?

 

The only time something should be looked at in the clubhouse should be for a situation that was not seen by a rules official but clearly seen on camera (like the PGA at Whistling Straits, for example), or if a player calls for a closer examination himself of a potential rules violation.

 

DJ called the rules official over, told him what happened, and the rules official asked the pertinent questions and was satisfied with DJ's answers and made the ruling that DJ plays the ball as it lies with no penalty. It should have been over at that point. Period. Because all the USGA did from then on was basically call DJ a liar and not trust the ruling made on the spot by one of its OWN OFFICIALS. And Mike Davis trying to backtrack it yesterday because it made the USGA look like total fools was pure comedy gold.

 

If you dont believe the ref had "complete information", then you must conclude Dustin Johnson is a liar. There's no two ways about it.

[jacot23]

The ref did not say he didn't cause it to move. The ref asked him if he grounded the club "or anything." DJ told him he had not, when in fact he had grounded it.

 

The ref did not have complete information.

 

I am not claiming DJ caused it to move, but that he could have.

 

If a rules official that walks with every group doesnt have full control of a rules situation, why the hell are they even out there then?

 

The only time something should be looked at in the clubhouse should be for a situation that was not seen by a rules official but clearly seen on camera (like the PGA at Whistling Straits, for example), or if a player calls for a closer examination himself of a potential rules violation.

 

DJ called the rules official over, told him what happened, and the rules official asked the pertinent questions and was satisfied with DJ's answers and made the ruling that DJ plays the ball as it lies with no penalty. It should have been over at that point. Period. Because all the USGA did from then on was basically call DJ a liar.

 

As well as Austin, Lee, Lee's caddie, and the official that made the call.

[JaNelson38]

As well as Austin, Lee, Lee's caddie, and the official that made the call.

 

Yup. Did the USGA even bother to ask the opinions of Lee Westwood or his caddie before making their ruling?

 

I doubt it.

 

SImple fact is, DJ was starting to distance himself a bit in the tournament and the USGA needed something to put some tension out there. They didnt make any deal out of this until he got that big break on 10 I believe, when he was buried in the rough and was able to take relief back out of the rough due to a TV tower sight line. Two holes later, the USGA is holding a penalty over him for something that had supposedly happened 90 minutes prior that was already ruled on by a rules official with the group.

 

Its ridiculous. Petty. Childish. And a disgrace to the game of golf.

[DevilDog]

USGA has gotten too hung up in the absolute letter of the law if you will concerning the rules instead of the spirit of the law. The USGA rules official said Johnson shouldn't have been penalized on the spot and that's where it should have stopped. It was as if the USGA powers that be were determined to get a penalty stroke on Johnson. Either the USGA trusts the players and the walking rules officials or they will have to constantly go to video.

[rony]

I know what DJ would like them to do. :rolleyes:

[KyGolf]

This thread is full of hysteria and overreaction.

 

People that don't know or understand a strict reading of the rules, arguing from feelings rather than facts. Johnson brought this on himself by fiddling around so close to the ball on extremely fast and sloped greens.

[moegolfer11]

Crawl back in their hole and wait for next year to reveal if they see their shadow again...wait am I getting that little badger fellow mixed up with the USGA again?

[NevinW]

The problem with the USGA isn't that they are a bunch of elitist, blueblood, snobbish power-hungry boobs. They aren't. They are actually good people trying to do good for the game. The problem with the USGA is that too many of them are semi-retired east coast attorneys or spend all of their time working with attorneys (yes, I know they aren't all lawyers). That is why the rules are written in such an obtuse fashion and the rulings go on page after page. What should be a simple game with simple rules has evolved into a game so complicated that the end result is an embarrassment played out on national TV. They behaved exactly like I would expect attorneys to behave. How will the USGA respond to this crisis? They will go into full-lawyer mode and try to talk their way out of it. Spin and damage control just like they would for a client who's has screwed up. The real correct response to this crisis would be to re-write the rules and make them MUCH more simple. Re-read the rule in question here and tell me that it is really comprehensible and straight forward. I seriously doubt that they are capable of doing that because it is against their training.

[Lodestone]

If I touch the ball on a tee peg and moves forward, apart from the chorus of "One" from your companions, there is no penalty.

If I inadvertently touch my ball causing it to move on the green there is a penalty.

Don't see the difference, just replace the ball and carry on.

 

I disagree. One of the basic tenets of golf it to play it as it lies, which includes not moving it. The fault isn't the rule, imo

 

gotta respectfully disagree with you on this one Vindog. The basic tenet of "play it as it lies" goes out the window on the putting surface, where we are allowed to mark it, clean it, replace it etc. The reason we play it as it lies everywhere else is so we don't improve our circumstances. On the tee we are allowed to hit from a manufactured lie, off of a tee. The ball is not in play until intentionally knocked off of that tee.

 

We can fix punch marks on the green. Remove dead bugs from our line. The green has it's own slightly different set of rules than the other parts of the course. It would not be inconsistent to realize that nobody is trying to improve their circumstance by the ball moving a fraction of an inch after having been legally marked and replaced.

[SurfDuffer]

They should mail me more free note pads and beg more for me to join.

[Sixcat]

I don't want to see the US Open played at, take your pick, bland, cookie cutter, TPC like virtually every other PGA Tour event. The USGA doesn't necessarily need to be dissolved but it has developed an unhealthy ego that could stand to be addressed.

 

It's easy to become reactionary and overreaching given the fact that so many millions love this game and hate seeing it damaged the way it was Sunday. In reality, I believe the rules of golf should be simplified, tremendously, and a structure put into place to allow transparency and continuity with other governing bodies to ensure the future of the game. I say this with the full understanding, the R&A is equally, if not more so, egotistical than the USGA and should be overhauled as well.

 

Those in charge of the USGA and R&A believe they have a better understanding and grasp of what is best for golf than the thousands of professionals who's job it is to grow the game and millions, like us, who love it to a fault. There has to be a middle ground so that the rules governing all play can be as simple as possible to understand, follow, address and carry out.

 

I don't think golf has the market cornered on this issue, either. I used to know what a catch was in the NFL. Now, I have little clue.

 

My point is, we have already become too reactionary with the rules. Becoming proactive to allow the rules to be pared down to there simplest form for the betterment of the game isn't too much to ask.

[Lodestone]

I'm thinking that playing on these super fast greens, the last thing a competitor should be asked to worry about is if the ball is going to wiggle of of it's mark before he even hits it.

[HitEmTrue]

If you dont believe the ref had "complete information", then you must conclude Dustin Johnson is a liar. There's no two ways about it.

 

I don't believe that is true. DJ was surprised by the movement, and he was concentrating on making a putt. He may have thought the ref meant grounding while addressing the ball. Who knows. He believed he hasn't caused it, and maybe it affected his reality.

 

In car accidents it is normal to get different versions of what happened...even from peeps who aren't lying.

 

[jslane57]

On greens this fast, especially on slope, the ball only comes to rest in indentations in the green. If you mark your ball and set it back an 1/8 inch over it is now on a high spot. You put your ball on a high spot and start tapping the ground next to the ball, it is going to move. This ruling can be nitpicked any way you feel it should go. In a game of integrity, tie should go to the golfer. Greens so fast that you have to find a hole in the ground so it doesn't move are simply too fast for tournament play IMO.

[Baldy32]

They should mail me more free note pads and beg more for me to join.

 

I seem to get an envelope with those notepads every couple of months. Using them on my desk right now. I joined the USGA a couple of years ago simply to get the hat and bag tag with my name on it. I never renewed due to the anchoring ban. I still have the bag tag on my bag though, iI think i'm going to take it off now though after this fiasco.

[Lodestone]

The US Open, and "THE" Open are the two most prestigious, important championships a golfer can ever hope to play in. They are run by the organizations that collaborate to write the rules of the game.

 

To think that these organizations can do no better than to create a situation where their respective Championships could be affected by a "51% likelihood " is mind-boggling.

 

51%? More likely than not? in other words "a big fat 'MAYBE'".....

 

"Yes, you did play the 72 holes of golf one stoke better than the field, however we think maybe you caused the ball to move. Not sure, mind you, but we think maybe you did. Our "maybe" is really more important that what you accomplished in 4 days of golf on a mind-blowingly difficult course, under unfathomable pressure. So you didn't win. See you tomorrow."