What does the USGA Do Now?

[middie8]

If you have Nicklaus disapproving, Tiger called it a debacle and 100% of tour pros saying it was a unfair bad ruling has to mean something. They have some serious PR issues to fix.

[pierso2]

My head was spinning during the Live from the US Open post round Sunday. I didn't understand what the USGA guys were saying. They kept stammering over their words and it appeared they didn't have a backbone. If they're the governing body, take a stand and be stern about it. Don't be wishy washy! But I didn't see him do anything that would cause the ball to move and get penalized for it. I saw another guy this week (Nike staffer don't remember his name) and his ball moved while the putter was behind it. That looked like a penalty to me!

 

I also found myself agreeing with Brandel for once...that was a real head spinner! I appreciated his fire along with DD's on the topic.

[300_Straight]

I'd watch your back, OP. The USGA is probably monitoring your emails, texts & perhaps viewing you through your cell phone camera at this very moment, waiting for the perfect time to penalize you. Only to revoke and then re-penalize you for wrongdoings you ultimately had no control over, more likely than not.

[puttin4dough]

The USGA...

 

At the risk of being hammered for this response, they were right to investigate a ball moving, but they should have left the situation alone when Johnson insisted he didn't cause it. They invited this problem and then found themselves in deep water. I don't think they were ever going to put themselves in a position where they cost DJ the win, so they had to sit on a decision till the end so they could either say no penalty (for the win) or penalty (for a win by two strokes). If true, that is a problem in itself where rules interpretations take on a political bent, but I digress. Quite honestly, I don't care whether Johnson had to sweat it out for the rest of the round - he was compensated well, and there are those that would consider it karma for past poor behavior.

 

Moving forward, I think they need to reflect on what happened here and not attempt to micro manage rules infractions. There is no way that another tour player in a group isn't going to call shenanigans on someone trying to cheat, so if Johnson and Westwood both said he wasn't responsible for the ball moving, that should be the end of it.

 

(That, and if the ball moves on the green without contact with the club...just freakin' replace it)

 

 

I have a few thoughts on this.

Let's start at the beginning, when DJ called the official over and ask about what to do and said that he didn't cause the ball to move and then Westwood supported that statement. Its should have been left at that. I will play devil's advocate here for a minute though. Ok so they review the tape and say you know, let's ask him again. So they go out and ask him again on the 12th tee and he says " No, I didn't;t cause the ball to move". Response should have been "Ok, sorry to bother you, good luck with the rest of your round. If sitting in that tent, they felt as confident about him making the ball move as they had said throughout the broadcast, after speaking with Johnson, going to the 12 th tee box with the thought of asking him again shouldn't not have been the mentality. It should have been "we need to go let him know that we are assessing him a penalty stroke for the actions on the 5th green". That way he is aware of what is happening and didn't have to keep thinking back to that putt and wondering the rest of the round, what the officials were seeing that he had missed.

 

The USGA did get one thing correct, they at least informed him, while he was playing that there was something going on but they should have either left it alone, no penalty and never stopped him or they should have gone out to stop him and assessed the penalty right then and there.

[JaNelson38]

If you dont believe the ref had "complete information", then you must conclude Dustin Johnson is a liar. There's no two ways about it.

 

I don't believe that is true. DJ was surprised by the movement, and he was concentrating on making a putt. He may have thought the ref meant grounding while addressing the ball. Who knows. He believed he hasn't caused it, and maybe it affected his reality.

 

In car accidents it is normal to get different versions of what happened...even from peeps who aren't lying.

 

Yes, but in car accidents you have clear evidence that usually supports or contradicts statements made to determine if someone's recollection of events is correct or not.

 

The rule states that if the player does nothing to make the ball move, he's not penalized. The fact that he "grounded" his putter next to the ball during his practice strokes is irrelevant. One other guy (who's name escapes me) actually addressed a ball with his putter on Sunday, then realized the ball had moved because his alignment line on the ball had changed, and he wasnt penalized.

 

DJ said he did nothing to make the ball move. The walking rules official didn't dispute it and told him to play it as it lies with no penalty. And there is no video evidence that Johnson did anything to move that ball.

 

As for the USGA, absent any real proof that DJ did anything wrong, either you trust Johnson and your rules official walking with the group or you dont. They didn't. So yeah, the USGA is calling DJ a liar.

 

Remember this the next time you see a USGA-sponsored commercial that talks about golf being a game of "respect", "honor", "trust", "fair play", etc.

[pierso2]

Wonder when the USGA is going to offer Roger Goodell a job...

[Afraid2goLow]

What does the USGA do now? Absolutely nothing.

 

Is anyone seriously not going to watch the US Open next year because of a ruling? No we are all going to watch it. I honestly beleive they feel good about it because without the drama it caused it would have made for a seriously boring Sunday back 9. Lowry was going backwards fast by the turn and DJ was steady there was very little drama after hole 12 outside this ruling. Ratings would have been awful without it so I truly believe they did this to help the ratings. Plus this creates a major talking point heading into next years US Open that should help with their promotion and coverage of the event.

[jslane57]

What does the USGA do now? Absolutely nothing.

 

Is anyone seriously not going to watch the US Open next year because of a ruling? No we are all going to watch it. I honestly beleive they feel good about it because without the drama it caused it would have made for a seriously boring Sunday back 9. Lowry was going backwards fast by the turn and DJ was steady there was very little drama after hole 12 outside this ruling. Ratings would have been awful without it so I truly believe they did this to help the ratings. Plus this creates a major talking point heading into next years US Open that should help with their promotion and coverage of the event.

Not only this, but the whole world got behind DJ...even non DJ loving golf fans. And we're still talking it up. Sounds like a win/win. The only way it could have been better is if at the end of the round they did not assess DJ the penalty stroke.

[Lodestone]

What does the USGA do now? Absolutely nothing.

 

Is anyone seriously not going to watch the US Open next year because of a ruling? No we are all going to watch it. I honestly beleive they feel good about it because without the drama it caused it would have made for a seriously boring Sunday back 9. Lowry was going backwards fast by the turn and DJ was steady there was very little drama after hole 12 outside this ruling. Ratings would have been awful without it so I truly believe they did this to help the ratings. Plus this creates a major talking point heading into next years US Open that should help with their promotion and coverage of the event.

 

"2017 US Open at Erin Hills. Be sure to watch to see how we screw this one up!"

[pokerfish]

 

http://www.usga.org/articles/2016/06/statement-regarding-dustin-johnson-ruling.html

 

U.S. OPEN

Statement Regarding Dustin Johnson Ruling

JUNE 20, 2016

 

The USGA wishes to congratulate Dustin Johnson on his victory and thank him, and the other players in the field, for their professionalism and grace throughout the championship. Dustin is a wonderful champion, a talented golfer and a gentleman.

 

Our team at the USGA has seen and heard a great deal of discussion and debate about the ruling on Dustin’s ball moving during the final round of the 2016 U.S. Open Championship at Oakmont Country Club. In addition to the explanations we offered upon the conclusion of the final round, we add these comments.

 

Upon reflection, we regret the distraction caused by our decision to wait until the end of the round to decide on the ruling. It is normal for rulings based on video evidence to await the end of a round, when the matter can be discussed with the player before the score card is returned. While our focus on getting the ruling correct was appropriate, we created uncertainty about where players stood on the leader board after we informed Dustin on the 12th tee that his actions on the fifth green might lead to a penalty. This created unnecessary ambiguity for Dustin and the other players, as well as spectators on-site, and those watching and listening on television and digital channels.

 

During any competition, the priority for Rules officials is to make the correct ruling for the protection of the player(s) involved and the entire field. In applying Rule 18-2, which deals with a ball at rest that moves, officials consider all the relevant evidence – including the player’s actions, the time between those actions and the movement of the ball, the lie of the ball, and course and weather conditions. If that evidence, considered together, shows that it is more likely than not that the player’s actions caused the ball to move, the player incurs a one-stroke penalty. Officials use this “more likely than not” standard because it is not always apparent what caused the ball to move. Such situations require a review of the evidence, with Decision 18-2/0.5 providing guidance on how the evidence should be weighed.

 

Our officials reviewed the video of Dustin on the fifth green and determined that based on the weight of the evidence, it was more likely than not that Dustin caused his ball to move. Dustin’s putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

 

We accept that not everyone will agree that Dustin caused his ball to move. Issues under Rule 18-2 often require a judgment where there is some uncertainty, and this was one of those instances. We also understand that some people may disagree with Rule 18-2 itself. While we respect the viewpoints of those who disagree, our Committee made a careful and collective judgment in its pursuit of a fair competition played under the Rules of Golf.

 

In keeping with our commitment to excellence in all aspects of our work on behalf of the game of golf, we pledge to closely examine our procedures in this matter. We will assess our procedures for handling video review, the timing of such, and our communication with players to make sure that when confronted with such a situation again, we will have a better process.

 

We at the USGA deeply appreciate the support of players, fans, and the entire golf community of our championships and our other work for golf – and we appreciate your feedback as well. We have established an email address (comments@usga.org) and phone mailbox (908-326-1857) to receive comments. We thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

We all share an abiding love of this great game. Let us continue to work together for its good.

[ltjackson]

Boycott the US Open and make the Players the 4th major.

[JaNelson38]

What does the USGA do now? Absolutely nothing.

 

Is anyone seriously not going to watch the US Open next year because of a ruling? No we are all going to watch it. I honestly beleive they feel good about it because without the drama it caused it would have made for a seriously boring Sunday back 9. Lowry was going backwards fast by the turn and DJ was steady there was very little drama after hole 12 outside this ruling. Ratings would have been awful without it so I truly believe they did this to help the ratings. Plus this creates a major talking point heading into next years US Open that should help with their promotion and coverage of the event.

 

I said basically the same in another thread...after DJ got bailed out of the rough and a certain bogey at 10 with that sight of line relief, its not a coincidence that two tee boxes later the USGA informs him of this potential penalty that supposedly happened 90 minutes prior that had already been ruled on by the walking rules official.

 

It was done to create added tension for the leader in the hopes he'd drop a couple of shots and come back to the field. No more, no less. Mike Davis' backtrack "sorry but not sorry" type of statement yesterday pretty much confirmed it for me.

[Rangeballz]

The problem I have is the "more likely than not" wording of the rule. This opens things up to a lot of subjective interpretations....

 

I agree with the "if the ball moves on the green, and a club didn't touch it, just replace it with no penalty" line of thinking.

[Sixcat]

http://www.usga.org/...son-ruling.html

 

U.S. OPEN

Statement Regarding Dustin Johnson Ruling

JUNE 20, 2016

 

The USGA wishes to congratulate Dustin Johnson on his victory and thank him, and the other players in the field, for their professionalism and grace throughout the championship. Dustin is a wonderful champion, a talented golfer and a gentleman.

 

Our team at the USGA has seen and heard a great deal of discussion and debate about the ruling on Dustin's ball moving during the final round of the 2016 U.S. Open Championship at Oakmont Country Club. In addition to the explanations we offered upon the conclusion of the final round, we add these comments.

 

Upon reflection, we regret the distraction caused by our decision to wait until the end of the round to decide on the ruling. It is normal for rulings based on video evidence to await the end of a round, when the matter can be discussed with the player before the score card is returned. While our focus on getting the ruling correct was appropriate, we created uncertainty about where players stood on the leader board after we informed Dustin on the 12th tee that his actions on the fifth green might lead to a penalty. This created unnecessary ambiguity for Dustin and the other players, as well as spectators on-site, and those watching and listening on television and digital channels.

 

During any competition, the priority for Rules officials is to make the correct ruling for the protection of the player(s) involved and the entire field. In applying Rule 18-2, which deals with a ball at rest that moves, officials consider all the relevant evidence – including the player's actions, the time between those actions and the movement of the ball, the lie of the ball, and course and weather conditions. If that evidence, considered together, shows that it is more likely than not that the player's actions caused the ball to move, the player incurs a one-stroke penalty. Officials use this "more likely than not" standard because it is not always apparent what caused the ball to move. Such situations require a review of the evidence, with Decision 18-2/0.5 providing guidance on how the evidence should be weighed.

 

Our officials reviewed the video of Dustin on the fifth green and determined that based on the weight of the evidence, it was more likely than not that Dustin caused his ball to move. Dustin's putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

 

We accept that not everyone will agree that Dustin caused his ball to move. Issues under Rule 18-2 often require a judgment where there is some uncertainty, and this was one of those instances. We also understand that some people may disagree with Rule 18-2 itself. While we respect the viewpoints of those who disagree, our Committee made a careful and collective judgment in its pursuit of a fair competition played under the Rules of Golf.

 

In keeping with our commitment to excellence in all aspects of our work on behalf of the game of golf, we pledge to closely examine our procedures in this matter. We will assess our procedures for handling video review, the timing of such, and our communication with players to make sure that when confronted with such a situation again, we will have a better process.

 

We at the USGA deeply appreciate the support of players, fans, and the entire golf community of our championships and our other work for golf – and we appreciate your feedback as well. We have established an email address (comments@usga.org) and phone mailbox (908-326-1857) to receive comments. We thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

We all share an abiding love of this great game. Let us continue to work together for its good.

 

The classic, ambiguous piss-off, non-apology, "apology".

[The Pearl]

The US Open, and "THE" Open are the two most prestigious, important championships a golfer can ever hope to play in. They are run by the organizations that collaborate to write the rules of the game. To think that these organizations can do no better than to create a situation where their respective Championships could be affected by a "51% likelihood " is mind-boggling. 51%? More likely than not? in other words "a big fat 'MAYBE'"..... "Yes, you did play the 72 holes of golf one stoke better than the field, however we think maybe you caused the ball to move. Not sure, mind you, but we think maybe you did. Our "maybe" is really more important that what you accomplished in 4 days of golf on a mind-blowingly difficult course, under unfathomable pressure. So you didn't win. See you tomorrow."

 

This is really the heart of the matter and more importantly a study in how organizations can reach intellectually poor conclusions, despite best intentions. They have somehow reached the conclusion to assess or not assess a penalty based on "outside agency" factors, many of which CANNOT be OBSERVED, rather than basing a penalty ruling on "outside agency" factors that CAN be OBSERVED. They have taken a situation which, for the most part, could be officiated objectively, and opened it up to the subjective whims of rules officials not even at the seen of the incident.

 

A sure case study in organizational dysfunction.

[JaNelson38]

 

Dustin's putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

 

 

This is an outright lie. That ball didnt move until Johnson had the putter off the ground behind the ball, almost a full couple of seconds after his practice strokes at the side of the ball.

 

The USGA should be ashamed of itself.

[The Pearl]

The problem I have is the "more likely than not" wording of the rule. This opens things up to a lot of subjective interpretations....

 

I agree with the "if the ball moves on the green, and a club didn't touch it, just replace it with no penalty" line of thinking.

 

Exactly. Absent obvious action by the player, logic dictates to default to the cause of the ball moving an act of mother nature. Somehow the USGA has decided to apply common sense in reverse.

[Tcann32]

I haven't read every post of all the threads on this, but I have to say that DJ showed real class in his post round interview by including the USGA in his "thank you's". If there was an undertone, he hid it well..

 

Officiating is subjective in every game and sport, and the problem comes when another official disagrees with another, or overturns an initial ruling.

 

I do like DJ and this isn't a knock on him, but when the rule was being explained to us via broadcast, it seemed as though all DJ would've had to have done was say "No, I didn't cause the ball to move."

 

I've been wondering if the ruling would've been different had he only had a one shot lead, or been tied with another person. This way the USGA could make their ruling and not feel bad for assessing the same penalty to a few other people throughout the week, and still have DJ win. It isn't right either way, I just think not assessing this one to DJ had it's downsides to them too, which they should've bucked up and handled it professionally.

 

Golf needs strong, definite rulings. They could also speed up the game and simplify it quite heavily with a few changes as well.

 

I don't know what goes into being an on-course official, but they should all be trained and have the same weight behind their decisions so you can't make a decision based off of what one guy says, then get screwed by another guy. Whoever the dude was on TV from the USGA was trying his damnedest to justify his position. He was either thrown into the fire or was playing matches and gasoline on his own and it was all his bright idea. Regardless, I'm sure the players are fed up with a lot of this stuff. If the game is based off of a game of honor, then someone can't be playing God and running around calling everyone liars and deciding what really happened for them.

[HitEmTrue]

Dustin's putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

 

 

This is an outright lie. That ball didnt move until Johnson had the putter off the ground behind the ball, almost a full couple of seconds after his practice strokes at the side of the ball.

 

The USGA should be ashamed of itself.

 

It moved within a fraction of a second of him LIFTING the putter from the ground. If blades of grass sprung upward when he lifted the putter, it could have caused the ball to roll backward (down hill).

[Tcann32]

What does the USGA do now? Absolutely nothing.

 

Is anyone seriously not going to watch the US Open next year because of a ruling? No we are all going to watch it. I honestly beleive they feel good about it because without the drama it caused it would have made for a seriously boring Sunday back 9. Lowry was going backwards fast by the turn and DJ was steady there was very little drama after hole 12 outside this ruling. Ratings would have been awful without it so I truly believe they did this to help the ratings. Plus this creates a major talking point heading into next years US Open that should help with their promotion and coverage of the event.

 

I said basically the same in another thread...after DJ got bailed out of the rough and a certain bogey at 10 with that sight of line relief, its not a coincidence that two tee boxes later the USGA informs him of this potential penalty that supposedly happened 90 minutes prior that had already been ruled on by the walking rules official.

 

It was done to create added tension for the leader in the hopes he'd drop a couple of shots and come back to the field. No more, no less. Mike Davis' backtrack "sorry but not sorry" type of statement yesterday pretty much confirmed it for me.

 

So basically like in baseball and softball when the ump doesn't call a strike on the first pitch then rules the 3rd pitch a strike, when it was clearly not. "They owed him one." haha.

 

The 10th was questionable to many in some degree or another, but the 5th was not. They were looking to alleviate a potential storm they knew they had already created.

[MtlJeff]

they made golf look foolish on a grand stage. Which isn't good...really an embarrassment to the game. They had major sports publications like ESPN calling it a debacle, saying that Johnson saved the event from their bumblyness.

 

They basically called their US open champ a liar, as well as his playing partner who has basically a bulletproof rep as a good guy. They overruled their own senior rules official....and did this all over a rule that by its own definition is vague. Pretty much every pro with a Twitter account disagreed with them

 

Some guy no one had ever heard of could've changed the winner of the US open over something that can't be proven or disproven, it was his opinion that his own employee had already ruled on

 

And they messed with the field for 7 holes by not letting them know what the real score was

 

It was really an embarrassment to golf and to their organization.

 

Theyd be best off firing Jeff Hall and just apologizing for ruining the event and asking for forgiveness from the tour and fans, and than changing the official rule to make it less vague

[The Pearl]

I do think the USGA is being left of the hook to a degree for their interpretation of their own rule. If you reverse engineer their thinking, they are making the claim that one of two or a combination of the two caused the ball to move:

 

1. DJ grounding the putter in close proximity to the ball while executing a couple of practice swings.

 

2. By moving the putter during a couple of practice swings and in the process of addressing the ball.

 

I would like to see the USGA explain the exact law of physics which would result in such actions, particularly in light of the ball moving backwards.

[wayupnorth]

what does the usga do now?

 

i think the best possible thing the usga could do to ensure that this never happens again is to work with the r&a to CHANGE THE BLOODY RULE. for me, if there is no INTENT to make a stroke in ANY given situation i do not believe a player should EVER be penalized for a ball moving at ANY location through the green after it has already been deemed that the ball has come to rest. for me, the rule as it is currently written is an antiquated one which assesses the player a ridiculously heavy-handed penalty for what is almost always an ACCIDENTAL occurrence with almost always ZERO advantage gained. for me, this is simply not "for the good of the game".

 

if the ball moves, and you honestly weren't trying to make it move, just replace the ball and play away.

 

for goodness sake, isn't this game hard enough?

 

jg.

 

p.s. thank GOD dustin johnson won...

[widow-maker]

The PGA tour doesn't get to decide what a Major is. If they did, then they'd have already taken the PGA, US Open, and Masters and done away with them in favor of event that they were in charge of.

 

To the extent that the USGA gets to decide what a major is, I don't give a damn what they think. Complete assclowns.

The USGA doesn't get to decide either. We decided what the majors were through popular opinion. Sports writers decided more than any one organization did. It evolved. No one entity gets to decide. The Majors evolved through popular opinion.

[HitEmTrue]

I would like to see the USGA explain the exact law of physics which would result in such actions, particularly in light of the ball moving backwards.

 

My opinion on what could have happened in post #79. No defying the laws of physics required.

[JaNelson38]

It moved within a fraction of a second of him LIFTING the putter from the ground. If blades of grass sprung upward when he lifted the putter, it could have caused the ball to roll backward (down hill).

 

What "could" have caused the ball to move is IRRELEVANT. Either you have proof that the player moved the ball, or you don't. And that proof needs to be definitive, not "more likely than not" as the USGA put it in their ridiculous statement.

 

If you don't have proof, how can you assess a penalty? As Ive said before, that means you either trust the player when he says he didnt move it, or you dont. You dont just wait around for 90+ minutes to see how the tournament unfolds and then notify the player at the 12th tee that me "may be" assessed a penalty. Make the damn ruling then and there on the 5th green, which was done by the walking rules official, and leave it alone.

[HitEmTrue]

if the ball moves, and you honestly weren't trying to make it move, just replace the ball and play away.

 

Still have to determine if player caused it to move or not...if the player didn't cause it, it should not get replaced.

 

But the rule could be changed so that there is no penalty.

 

Oh, and I'm glad DJ won, too!

[duffer987]

I know what DJ would like them to do. :rolleyes:

 

Have sex with them?

[HitEmTrue]

It moved within a fraction of a second of him LIFTING the putter from the ground. If blades of grass sprung upward when he lifted the putter, it could have caused the ball to roll backward (down hill).

 

What "could" have caused the ball to move is IRRELEVANT. Either you have proof that the player moved the ball, or you don't. And that proof needs to be definitive, not "more likely than not" as the USGA put it in their ridiculous statement.

 

If you don't have proof, how can you assess a penalty? As Ive said before, that means you either trust the player when he says he didnt move it, or you dont. You dont just wait around for 90+ minutes to see how the tournament unfolds and then notify the player at the 12th tee that me "may be" assessed a penalty. Make the damn ruling then and there on the 5th green, which was done by the walking rules official, and leave it alone.

 

I am primarily speaking about a couple of talking points that keep coming up.

 

1) Many keep saying the ball didn't move until 2-seconds after grounding the club. Lifting the club from the ground is also a movement that is relevant.

 

2) No laws of physics have to be defied for the ball to roll backward (down hill). A disturbed ball will not necessarily move toward the putter.

 

I don't know if he caused it to move. Dec. 18-2/0.5 gives guidance on whether "proof" is required.

[Tcann32]

I do think the USGA is being left of the hook to a degree for their interpretation of their own rule. If you reverse engineer their thinking, they are making the claim that one of two or a combination of the two caused the ball to move:

 

1. DJ grounding the putter in close proximity to the ball while executing a couple of practice swings.

 

2. By moving the putter during a couple of practice swings and in the process of addressing the ball.

 

I would like to see the USGA explain the exact law of physics which would result in such actions, particularly in light of the ball moving backwards.

 

And both are just insane. Within reason, one could never expect that to cause the ball to move. If in fact it did cause the ball to move, the vibrations from grounding a putter, causing a ball to move, is, IMO, still relevant to place cause on course conditions. If it's a funny lie somewhere or something like that, it's different, but you should never have to fear setting the putter behind the ball on a dang green.