Nearest Point of Relief and Hazards

DaveLeeNC · July 22, 2016

A golf buddy asked me about this, and I gave him my opinion but was not sure.

The issue was relief from a paved cart path (ball near, but not in a water hazard). The NPR was inside a water hazard boundary, and I don't see anything in the RoG that says that this is not allowed. And the drop was, without any doubt, going to see the ball roll into a lake (VERY steep edge). And the ball was probably not going to end nearer the hole, although the ball would probably not be findable (maybe a foot deep at water's edge full of moss). And it is unlikely (but not verifiable) that the ball would have rolled more than 2 club lengths, but again hard to determine.

This seems a bit odd as, if you were to choose this relief, you don't exactly have a 'point at which the ball last crossed the hazard boundary'. The guy ended up just playing the ball as it lies (while standing on the cart path) as he certainly had that option. Was there a option this guy missed?

Thanks.

dave

b.helts · July 22, 2016

NPR can't be in a hazard. That and no closer to the hole are the only two concrete stipulations.

DaveLeeNC · July 22, 2016

NPR can't be in a hazard. That and no closer to the hole are the only two concrete stipulations.

Where does it say that? It is not in the definitions. And 20-2-c only says that the ball cannot "roll into a hazard". In this case that does not happen as the ball is dropped in the hazard.

Thanks.

dave

b.helts · July 22, 2016

24-2

(i)Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green , the player must lift the ball and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the immovable obstruction and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

DaveLeeNC · July 22, 2016

Got it - perfect. Thanks.

dave

b.helts · July 22, 2016

And before one of the rules hall monitors gets me I need to clarify that NPR can be in a bunker, so even that isn't concrete.

Shilgy · July 22, 2016

On a related note. My home course has a hole with the cart path too near the ob fence for relief on that side. A foot and a half to two feet at most. Since you cannot take relief on that side does npr become the other side of the path? I have been scouring 24-2 after reading this thread and cannot find anything on this question. Thanks.

Cancun · July 22, 2016

On a related note. My home course has a hole with the cart path too near the ob fence for relief on that side. A foot and a half to two feet at most. Since you cannot take relief on that side does npr become the other side of the path? I have been scouring 24-2 after reading this thread and cannot find anything on this question. Thanks.

If there is not enough room to take full relief from the obstruction (stance, lie and area of intended swing) on one side of the cart path (either because of a WH / LWH or because of OB), the NR will be on the other side. If there is enough room for the lie, but not enough room for the player to take a stance because of an OB fence (and not because of the cart path), then he better thinks twice before lifting that ball. Read D 24-2b/3.7 here:

http://www.usga.org/...n-24,d24-2b-3.7

Notice that the stance might be a problem or even inside the water or outside the course... that's the player's problem as far as he's not standing on the obstruction.

rogolf · July 22, 2016

And before one of the rules hall monitors gets me I need to clarify that NPR can be in a bunker, so even that isn't concrete.

This is a confusing response. Both Rules 24-2 and 25-1 state that if the ball lies through the green (ie, not in a hazard - bunker or water hazard) the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. If the ball lies in a hazard, and relief under 24-2 or 25-1 is available, the nearest point of relief must be in the hazard.

b.helts · July 22, 2016

And before one of the rules hall monitors gets me I need to clarify that NPR can be in a bunker, so even that isn't concrete.

This is a confusing response. Both Rules 24-2 and 25-1 state that if the ball lies through the green (ie, not in a hazard - bunker or water hazard) the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. If the ball lies in a hazard, and relief under 24-2 or 25-1 is available, the nearest point of relief must be in the hazard.

Yes. I stated in my first post that for NPR the only "concrete" stipulations are no closer to the hole and not in a hazard. But that, in the strictest sense, is not true because NPR can be in a hazard (bunker). Didn't want anyone to take me to task.

Might be unavoidable.

Cancun · July 22, 2016

Except that there's no relieve under 24-2 if the ball is in a water hazard

Edit : this in response to rogolf's post...

rogolf · July 22, 2016

And before one of the rules hall monitors gets me I need to clarify that NPR can be in a bunker, so even that isn't concrete.

This is a confusing response. Both Rules 24-2 and 25-1 state that if the ball lies through the green (ie, not in a hazard - bunker or water hazard) the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. If the ball lies in a hazard, and relief under 24-2 or 25-1 is available, the nearest point of relief must be in the hazard.

Yes. I stated in my first post that for NPR the only "concrete" stipulations are no closer to the hole and not in a hazard. But that, in the strictest sense, is not true because NPR can be in a hazard (bunker). Didn't want anyone to take me to task.

Might be unavoidable.

Just to be clear - if your ball lies through the green (not in a hazard), the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. However, if your ball lies in a hazard, the nearest point of relief (if relief is available) must be in a hazard.

b.helts · July 22, 2016

And before one of the rules hall monitors gets me I need to clarify that NPR can be in a bunker, so even that isn't concrete.

This is a confusing response. Both Rules 24-2 and 25-1 state that if the ball lies through the green (ie, not in a hazard - bunker or water hazard) the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. If the ball lies in a hazard, and relief under 24-2 or 25-1 is available, the nearest point of relief must be in the hazard.

Yes. I stated in my first post that for NPR the only "concrete" stipulations are no closer to the hole and not in a hazard. But that, in the strictest sense, is not true because NPR can be in a hazard (bunker). Didn't want anyone to take me to task.

Might be unavoidable.

Just to be clear - if your ball lies through the green (not in a hazard), the nearest point of relief cannot be in a hazard. However, if your ball lies in a hazard, the nearest point of relief (if relief is available) must be in a hazard.

Yeah man. You write cliff's notes or something?

Your post is exactly right!