Leaving the pin in or out revisited

huskydawg · July 23, 2016

Last few times out playing, my streak is up to 4 chips in a row with seemingly good speed banging off the flagstick and back out. I read in magazines all the time that say to leave it in, so I just took the advice and believed them. I'm starting to think more and more about this and I came up with 2 hypotheses: 1) The flagstick makes the hole smaller (it's not 4.25 inches anymore because the flagstick splits it) and the ball cannot fall so easily; 2) a convex surface (the ball) hitting a convex surface (the flagstick) is unfavorable. Conversely, a convex surface (the ball) hitting a concave surface (the back of the hole) seems intuitively more favorable.

Now I know about the Pelz experiment where he concluded that it is best to leave it in. I want to challenge his testing methodology, because from what I looked up he only tested 3 conditions: speeds where the ball would end up 3, 6, and 9 feet by the hole when a lid was covering the hole. Why not 2 feet, or 1 foot? For short chips and putts from off the green, it's not too hard to give it a good leave like that. So has anyone ever replicated the experiment and gotten any different results? Maybe make an adjustment to include the speeds what would be 1 and 2 foot leaves?

JPGolf FL · July 23, 2016

If you had 4 with good speed bounce off the flag and not go in I would say you have all the data you need. IMO it's highly dependent on how level the hole was cut, how thick the flagstick is, and how well the flag fits into the hole.

iteachgolf · July 23, 2016

I've never had one hit a flagstick at ideal speed to go in and not go in. Anything hitting a flag stick hard enough to not go in is also going to hit the back of the hole without the flag in. And a ball hitting the back of hole is not good speed and has a way higher probability of lipping out than going in. A ball only going fast enough to roll a foot by the hole will not be knocked out by the flagstick. Any ball "banging" off the flagstick is going much further than 1-2' by the hole

Keithpbz · July 23, 2016

Only time I leave it in is if it's downhill and hopefully the flag will slow it down and keep from running past 5'

huskydawg · July 23, 2016

If you had 4 with good speed bounce off the flag and not go in I would say you have all the data you need. IMO it's highly dependent on how level the hole was cut, how thick the flagstick is, and how well the flag fits into the hole.

Actually, our flagsticks do seem to be quite thick. Good call, I didn't consider that angle before. Well me being the science geek, I think it would be worth it to run an experiment. When I get back from my vacation I'll see if I can test it out.