Nike Vapor Fly Pro vs Adams Fast 12 LS

displayname · August 3, 2016

Edit 8/7/16: See Head to Head testing here: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1371046-nike-vapor-fly-pro-vs-adams-fast-12-ls/#entry14050296

Well, with the steep price drops, I have to ask, would the switch be worth it? Honestly if I wasn't about to close on a house I would just buy this blindly at that the current price.

I've been playing the F12LS for a few years now, nothing seems to really beat it in the driver category. Some more forgiving, and some longer, but nothing that beats the whole package. I currently play it was a Diamana S+ 62, so the Nike would be a very easy transition since I'm already fairly used to a brighter driver head and the shaft is the same. I would be cutting the Nike down a full inch because I'm just more comfortable at 44.5, but outside of that, I'd play a pretty stock set up.

Any have input? I know they are almost half a decade removed, but I really like the shape of the VFP, and at $150, it's very hard not to just dive in for the experiment.

displayname · August 4, 2016

*Update - I dove in. I have a Vapor Fly Pro in my car just waiting on some tweaks. I'm going to get the specs of these clubs as close as possible to give this a true head to head test. Here's the plan:

Tonight I'll remove and weigh both heads. I have a heavier weight in the Adams head, but I don't remember what it weighs now. If needed, I'll add some lead tape to the Nike to match it up. Maybe cotton balls. I haven't tried that before, but it seems interesting.

Once I have the heads at the same weight, I'll get the Nike cut down to 44.5, same as my Adams, and set the head to 10.5, also the same as the Adams. Lastly I will be getting the same grip on the Nike with the same single wrap of extra tape.

The two clubs will then have approximately the same specs, with the exception of Gen 1 S+ shaft vs Gen 2 S+ shaft, and Adams vs Nike heads. Both heads are in the same general low spin profile, so it will be very interesting to see if newer is really better in any way in this case.

Even if I end up sticking with the Adams, this process is going to be fun! Once it's all said and done I'll get on a launch monitor and post some results, and of course add on course input too as I get around to that.

displayname · August 7, 2016

Initial set up is done, and round one of testing is complete.

Driver Specs:

F12LS

44.5"

10.5*

UTx Wrap Black (+1 wrap)

Diamana S+ 62

Total weight 324g

VFP

44.5”

10.5*

UTx Wrap Black (+1 wrap)

Diamana S+ 60

Total weight 320g

I don't have a swingweight scale, but I did balance both drivers and mark the balance point with tape to confirm that they are balanced in nearly the exact same spot with no additional work. I was glad this worked out the first time because the Nike head was actually heavier than the Adams, even though I previously had to order specialty weights for the Adams head (12 gram is installed vs stock 8g heavy weight).

Day 1 of testing:

I was able to hit both clubs on the monitors at the PGASS. Not the best monitors, but they serve the purpose of a side by side data driven comparison. The data reviewed below represents 19 shots with each club (ran out of time for 20).

I wasn't striking the ball well, and had higher than average spin numbers with both drivers, but I also haven't been playing as much this summer, so this was to be expected. Overall, the Nike consistently was 3-5 yards longer, with slightly tighter groupings. The biggest performance difference was on mishits, where the Nike proved to produce higher ball speeds, and hold better lines. I would say on an equal heel strike, the Nike would get at least 10 yards more distance, and remain about 5 yards closer to the target line. Overall, Nike won day 1 of testing for performance. On the worst shot of the day with each (both duck hooks), the Nike came out 24 yards longer and 5 yards closer to the target line. That's what was most impressive for the day. The Nike also was 5 yards longer on the best shot with each diver for the day.

Other interesting notes: the Nike seemed to be slightly higher launching and higher spinning overall - launching about 0.5 to 1 degree higher, spinning 200-400 more.

What really seemed to help the Nike counteract these elements was I was consistently able to swing it 1-2 mph faster, and producing ball speeds 2-4mph faster. I may also end up testing the Nike at 9.5, but I that may bring my launch too low, and I would benefit more from simply achieving a better strike.

I was also able to hit both clubs outdoors at the range. The Nike was equally easy to control after a couple shots, but I still seemed to just hold a little more confidence with the F12LS, but I have been using it for years now. My biggest hits again came from the Nike. The VFP also did produce a noticably higher ball flight, which is in line with the data presented in the indoor testing.

Feel and Looks:

The Nike looks great, and the shape is really what sold me on the driver. I don't mind the blue coming from a silver head, but the overall shape is wonderful. The second gen S+ shaft has a noticeably stiffer/more boardy feel. I'm going to have to decide if I want to adjust to that, or possibly stick some extra lead tape on the Nike to get a little more head feeling. It's in no way a bad feeling, just slightly tighter compared to the gen 1 S+.

The sound is where the two drivers seemed to actually be the most different. I personally really prefer the feeling and sound on the F12LS. It is a much more muted thud, while the Nike is a higher pitched metallic sound. The Nike isn't overly loud by any means, I just think the F12LS has an overall better feeling, and deeper more muted sound. Just something to get used too.

On a last note, I found it humorous that I went from a Silver head with a blue shaft, to a blue head with a silver shaft. Funny how things work out sometime!

I'm hoping to get some more testing in later today, and I will post updates as I complete them.

Man_O_War · August 7, 2016

good stuff. thanks for sharing

SetTheBarrHigh · August 7, 2016

I saw where PGA in Frisco dropped them down last week, a few days before the news broke. I almost did the same thing.

Shilgy · August 7, 2016

Perhaps a dumb question but... How do you know both clubs perform the best with the same balance point and head weight? Why try two drivers if you are trying to make them the same? :)

27x10.5 · August 7, 2016

Goes to show how good Adams was, LS came out like 6 years ago

driverhead · August 7, 2016

One of the best drivers ever made was the tour issue Fast 12 LS with the glued hosel.

Man_O_War · August 7, 2016

Goes to show how good Adams was, LS came out like 6 years ago

the gains by the vapor fly pro over the LS are typical of this year vs 6 years ago for all OEMs. fractions..if the club fits a player

displayname · August 7, 2016

Perhaps a dumb question but... How do you know both clubs perform the best with the same balance point and head weight? Why try two drivers if you are trying to make them the same? :)

I don't know for a fact that the clubs will perform the best with the same balance point and head weights. Here is what I do know. When I got the Fast 12 LS I went through a few different shafts at different lengths. Luckily with the changeable weights and the ability to add/remove a half inch in the F12LS, I was able to really dial things in. I ended up buying additional heavier weights until I found a set up that was really optimizing that club for me. This wasn't a professional fitting by any means, but the at time with the budget I was working with, the process of buying, selling, taking notes, and tracking various configurations with excel sheets I did find a set up that I felt really confident with. In all technicality I actually "downgraded" the shaft by going with the S+ over the original Fubuki. In that process I increased my average distance by 6 yards. On ideal strikes, I was getting very close to ideal numbers, and felt confident with that setup.

Given that process, I felt I should start as close as possible to that set up so comfort and confidence could carry over. It also really helps answer the "is newer really better?" - which is fun to test. Yes, in an ideal world I would go to a fitter, and we'd try whatever was needed to beat my current set up. However, I wouldn't be able to do that for under $200. Just the process of trying to beat it would cost $100. This club started with the same(ish) shaft, I know I prefer 44.5" because anything longer feels insane in my hands, so I have no problem just starting any driver at that length.

This 100% was an impulse purchase because I'm a hoe and sucker for a good sale. I figured I would start off a platform/setup that is currently working, and see if this is any better for me. I actually said if I went into the store, and they didn't have the VFP with a stiff S+, I was just going to forget it. I got the last one with the S+, so I figured at worst it would be a fun process and I'd lose a few bucks flipping the club, but have peace of mind knowing the F12LS was still the stick for me. From here I might do some tweaking, possibly try a new shaft or 2 at some point, etc etc. But for right now, I was able to get some new gear in the bag at an amazing price point, and have the data to prove that it is at least somewhat slightly better to help me sleep at night.

Some day I hope to save up enough cash to be able to treat myself to a full high end fitting and whatever gear proves to be best for me. But in the mean time, picking up a new stick for under $200 every 4ish years while picking up a few yards in the process isn't a bad deal either.

sbeduckman · August 7, 2016

Odd to see this. Familiar though. I can't get away from my Fast 12LS and bought a Nike without ever having hit it. I really like the Nike. My first time out, I left it at 10.5, and it'll need turned down a degree I imagine. My Adams is not set up the same though. It's a 9.5 head with a lower launch/spin shaft. That fast 12 remains a heck of a head.

lipw87 · August 7, 2016

If you like the muted feel, give the flex 440 a try. Just played with mine tonight it is great.

displayname · August 7, 2016

Odd to see this. Familiar though. I can't get away from my Fast 12LS and bought a Nike without ever having hit it. I really like the Nike. My first time out, I left it at 10.5, and it'll need turned down a degree I imagine. My Adams is not set up the same though. It's a 9.5 head with a lower launch/spin shaft. That fast 12 remains a heck of a head.

I agree, the F12LS is killer. If I would have done this test at the $400 price point, i would have just kept the F12LS in the bag and moved on with my life honestly. I won't be getting rid of my F12LS, but I'm ok with having it sit the bench for awhile. Especially since every few rounds I need to tighten the shaft screw if I don't remember to give it a twist before the rounds. It was never a problem, but it was unsettling every time it happened.

If you like the muted feel, give the flex 440 a try. Just played with mine tonight it is great.

Honestly, if the Flex was in stock, that might have happened. However I've never seen one in the wild. The fact that I had seen and hit the VFP demos here and there made it easier to make the impulse purchase.

Noke · August 7, 2016

If you thought the F12LS was great, try a Launch Lab!

27x10.5 · August 8, 2016

Goes to show how good Adams was, LS came out like 6 years ago

the gains by the vapor fly pro over the LS are typical of this year vs 6 years ago for all OEMs. fractions..if the club fits a player

When the LS came out I think Nike and Callaway were trying to sell us square drivers

displayname · August 17, 2016

I've now had the driver out on the course for nearly 2 rounds - a combination of multiple 9-13 hole sessions late in the day. The biggest adjustment for me has been the feel off the face. It's not a bad feeling, but it's very different compared to the F12LS. However, the performance has had some real standout moments.

Yesterday one of the biggest moments was a low heel strike, which is normally one of my more punishing misses. With the F12LS this shot would normally dart off low and straight left with a huge loss in distance. It also was almost painful on the hands. One of those misses that sticks with you for a minute. However, with the VFP the outcome was very different. The flight was still extremely low, but the ball faded back to the center of the fairway, and really seemed to have only lost about 15 yards in distance. I had at least a club less into the green from what I was expecting. Really great outcome on the forgiveness here.

I have still had about one duck hook per round, which visually both seemed to come out with zero spin. I can't really tell if the outcomes are better or worse compared to the F12LS for that shot, but the flight looks very different. This is one shot where I think the VFP might actually be slightly less forgiving because it somehow knocks all of the spin off and just drops and rolls quickly. The distance outcome is pretty similar, but if there is water to clear, or thick rough, the VFP will def have a lesser result for that one shot.

I know a lot of people didn't know how to feel about the blue and volt. Honestly, I don't even notice it. I use the patterns on the face for alignment, which works wonderfully and the shape of the drive is still stunning. I also had a few BIG drives. Those felt fantastic and flew wonderfully. The feel is different compared to the F12LS, so they weren't quite as satisfying right off the face, but I'm fairly certain overtime I'll grow to prefer the more explosive feel on the VFP, and this will be a non-issue. I could also really notice the increased stability in this version of the S+ in two areas - 1 when I really went after it and synced up well to unlock those couple extra MPH. I could still feel the comfortable kick, but the shaft really seemed more stable here compared to the previous generation. Secondly is on toe strikes. This new S+ undoubtedly has less twisting on these big misses. It might also be the combination of more forgiveness in the head, but any way around it, this set up is clearly more stable on a toe strike.

Overall, was the change mind blowing to my game? No. Would I have made the switch at $400? Probably not honestly. Is it fun having a new driver with some noticeable performance increases for under $200. YES! If anyone has a decent low spin set up they like, but they want to try something new, I would say with the current prices on the VFP, it's well worth the trail. It probably won't blow your mind, but it has some solid improvements that are noticeable in both flight and feel.