Divots in the fairway

[2bGood]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:19 PM, jmkenn0 said:

Its quite possible that people hit a lot more fairways than me, but I feel like I was in something resembling a divot about twice in 50+ rounds last year in the fairway?  Anecdotal sure, but it just seems like a problem that is very, very infrequent?

Same here, play 100+ rounds per year and might be in a divot of some description 2 or 3 times a year, even more rare am in a divot that present any real issue. 

[hybrid25]

Just now, 2bGood said:

 

So to be clear this would not be divot in your definition:

 

No. Although, if a rule such as 'one free drop in the fairway per round' were legal, that would resolve all questions inre of 'what is a divot?

[2bGood]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:50 PM, hybrid25 said:

No. Although, if a rule such as 'one free drop in the fairway per round' were legal, that would resolve all questions inre of 'what is a divot?

Yes such a rule would for sure remove the issue of defining divots providing you only find one. I guess it is just bad luck if you find two right? So why not just accept it is bad luck if you find one?

 

If such a rule came to be, it would be the most unusual rule in golf and very much inconsistent with the other rules of the game.

Edited January 26, 2021 by 2bGood

[hybrid25]

2 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Same here, play 100+ rounds per year and might be in a divot of some description 2 or 3 times a year, even more rare am in a divot that present any real issue. 

How many OB shots do you have a year? or sprinkler heads you land on? I guessing about the same amount as landing in divots, but they still make rules for those situations, but cannot for a divot? Man on the moon...

[rogolf]

12 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

How many OB shots do you have a year? or sprinkler heads you land on? I guessing about the same amount as landing in divots, but they still make rules for those situations, but cannot for a divot? Man on the moon...

Man in the moon?  About the same probability!

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

How many OB shots do you have a year? or sprinkler heads you land on? I guessing about the same amount as landing in divots, but they still make rules for those situations, but cannot for a divot? Man on the moon...

We already have a rule in place if you hit into a divot and can't hit out. It will cost you a penalty stroke to move it though. 😀

 

At any rate, we certainly CAN make a rule for divots, but why should we? What is your rational for needing this rule in place?

 

 

I tend to think if we are going to write a rule that gives relief from a divot, the rule likely has to be free relief from any irregularity in the fairway given the variety of divots you encounter. Maybe it happens one day, we didn't use to be able to move the ball on the green and that changed.

Edited January 25, 2021 by 2bGood

[Shilgy]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:36 PM, hybrid25 said:

As far as slowing down play, that would only be for tournament and PGA golf. Who cares what golfers do in casual situations. As far as what a divot is defined as,  anything with grass growing back is not a divot. Although, USGA could figure it out. We put men on the moon, rovers on Mars, etc, we can figure this out. One option that might help the issue is giving one free drop per round in the fairway.

And a throw , amiright? 😀

[rogolf]

59 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

We already have a rule in place if you hit into a divot and can't hit out. It will cost you a penalty stroke to move it though. 😀

 

At any rate, we certainly CAN make rule for divots, but why should we? What your rational for needing this rule in place?

 

 

I tend to think if we are going to write a rule that gives relief from a divot, the rule likely has to be free relief from any irregularity in the fairway given the variety of divots you encounter. Maybe it happens one day, we didn't use to be able to move the ball on the green and that changed.

Agree that we don't need another Rule, the unplayable ball Rule already exists and covers the situation where a player doesn't think that he or she can achieve their desired result from the current circumstance.  It's only a one stroke difference.  Play on!

[rogolf]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

And a throw , amiright?

Are you suggesting one free throw per round?  Mine would likely be from a bunker! 😀

[deadsolid...shank]

26 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Are you suggesting one free throw per round?  Mine would likely be from a bunker! 😀

No, you have to use the throw rule the smart way. When your opponent is on the green ready to close you out, throw HIS ball in the water. Nobody stipulated you have to throw your own ball!😀

 

But in all seriousness, I slipped out for nine holes last week. First tee shot splits the middle. Right in a huge divot. Made me think of all these threads and had a laugh. Then grabbed a club and chopped it out. I think that was the first  one one I’ve been in in at least a couple of years. 

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

No. Although, if a rule such as 'one free drop in the fairway per round' were legal, that would resolve all questions inre of 'what is a divot?

Breakfast balls with drop biscuits - you can do either any time you want anyway so why worry about rules and core values of the game others enjoy?

[SNIPERBBB]

After 5 years...still no innovative arguments to "fix the divot rule"? After the last 12 months, we deserve a better class of tail chasing.

[rogolf]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Breakfast balls with drop biscuits - you can do either any time you want anyway so why worry about rules and core values of the game others enjoy?

A bisque - how novel!

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

After 5 years...still no innovative arguments to "fix the divot rule"? After the last 12 months, we deserve a better class of tail chasing.

Jack’s divots were bigger than Tiger’s!

[hybrid25]

And while the USGA is at it, they might as well change the OB rule and make it a similar penalty as a hazard was.

[rogolf]

53 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

And while the USGA is at it, they might as well change the OB rule and make it a similar penalty as a hazard was.

I think that I heard the USGA Rules Committee was looking for volunteers - maybe you should apply so you can promote your ideas to them!

[hybrid25]

7 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I think that I heard the USGA Rules Committee was looking for volunteers - maybe you should apply so you can promote your ideas to them!

I think I would like that, and would do the golf world a whole lot of good!

[TerpFangolfer]

Did you guys see this one from Abu Dhabi over the weekend? The player somehow managed to remove the divot without moving the ball - if he hadn't I'm sure there would have been some howling

 

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/rules-inquiry-most-incredible-situation-seen/

 

[hybrid25]

4 hours ago, TerpFangolfer said:

Did you guys see this one from Abu Dhabi over the weekend? The player somehow managed to remove the divot without moving the ball - if he hadn't I'm sure there would have been some howling

 

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/rules-inquiry-most-incredible-situation-seen/

 

Interesting. Point I would make is, if someone is able to remove a divot from the top of the ball (luck of the draw, remember), why can't they remove the divot from the bottom of the ball? 

[Dpavs]

48 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

Interesting. Point I would make is, if someone is able to remove a divot from the top of the ball (luck of the draw, remember), why can't they remove the divot from the bottom of the ball? 

 

I tried that once and just ended up creating a larger divot under the ball.  In retrospect maybe I should have tried filling the divot instead. (JK of course!)

[2bGood]

58 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

Interesting. Point I would make is, if someone is able to remove a divot from the top of the ball (luck of the draw, remember), why can't they remove the divot from the bottom of the ball? 

I agree, - I mean if you can remove a fallen leaf from a tree, why should you not get free relief from the tree itself?😉

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, hybrid25 said:

Interesting. Point I would make is, if someone is able to remove a divot from the top of the ball (luck of the draw, remember), why can't they remove the divot from the bottom of the ball? 

Jeopardy - What is a divot versus what is a divot hole?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

52 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I agree, - I mean if you can remove a fallen leaf from a tree, why should you not get free relief from the tree itself?😉

Well yeah that's so obvious.  When you were a young man the tree was small and not a problem.  Now that you're old the tree is huge and in the way... sounds like age discrimination to me! 🙂

[hybrid25]

Now you guys are thinking!

[hybrid25]

Lmao, the poor babies on the pga tour are going to play 'lift-clean-and-place' tomorrow at the Farmers. Why can't the best in the world play it as it lies??? How about the luck of the draw type assessment be the rule, like a fairway divot? What a bunch of pampered babies. Come to think of it, some of the pros are experiencing what the average golfers are by losing a tee shot in thick rough where normally fans would assist them in finding the ball, lol. Poor guys, it's nice to see the PGA cater to them with LCP rule.

Edited January 28, 2021 by hybrid25

[sui generis]

18 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

Lmao, the poor babies on the pga tour are going to play 'lift-clean-and-place' tomorrow at the Farmers. Why can't the best in the world play it as it lies??? How about the luck of the draw type assessment be the rule, like a fairway divot? What a bunch of pampered babies. Come to think of it, some of the pros are experiencing what the average golfers are by losing a tee shot in thick rough where normally fans would assist them in finding the ball, lol. Poor guys, it's nice to see the PGA cater to them with LCP rule.

 

We'll start with the obvious. IT'S JUST A TV SHOW! And, please apologize to the PGA for your feeble insult. The PGA Tour is a business which sells their product on TV and their sponsors hope that we'll buy the shiny things they show us.

[hybrid25]

25 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

We'll start with the obvious. IT'S JUST A TV SHOW! And, please apologize to the PGA for your feeble insult. The PGA Tour is a business which sells their product on TV and their sponsors hope that we'll buy the shiny things they show us.

It's just a Tv show? lol. There's no talent or drama involved, it's just a show. What a poor assessment of what they do out there.

[sui generis]

19 minutes ago, hybrid25 said:

It's just a Tv show? lol. There's no talent or drama involved, it's just a show. What a poor assessment of what they do out there.

 

If it weren't for TV they'd be paying to play and hope to win a few thousand.

[hybrid25]

1 hour ago, sui generis said:

 

If it weren't for TV they'd be paying to play and hope to win a few thousand.

But that's the way every sport is, that's life on planet earth. Now, back to the topic, if they can play lcp, they can play lmp in the fairway. 

[hybrid25]

What are lift, clean and place rules, and how are they different than normal golf rules?

08/02/2019 at 9:35 am

Golf News Net

 

 

When it rains a lot in a golf tournament, tournament officials and the committee will often decide to allow players to play under lift, clean and place rules -- also known as preferred lies on the PGA Tour. The idea with lift, clean and place is to let the field get rewarded for hitting and staying in the fairways instead of potentially penalizing them with a nasty mudball after rain.

Here's how lift, clean and place works (typically): If a golfer is hitting their current shot from a lie in the fairway of the hole they're playing, then they're able to pick up the golf ball (after first marking the original spot with a tee or other marker), clean off the golf ball, then put it back by placing it in a spot within a scorecard's length of the original position.

That wiggle room in which a player can place the ball can sometimes change. Sometimes it's a club. Sometimes it's a different measure. But, typically, a scorecard length, or about 6 inches, is the way to go.

Obviously golfers are allowed to mark and clean golf balls on the putting surfaces, so preferred lies rules don't apply there. Everywhere else on the golf course that isn't the fairway or green of the hole the golfer is currently playing, the golfer has to play the ball down, as it lies, without cleaning or moving it.

 

Now, a lot of golfers call preferred lies a nickname: lift, clean and cheat. That's because there really is nowhere in the Rules of Golf that explicitly allows preferred lies. So, purists think it's cheating if it's allowed. In fact, the European Tour goes so far as to say that record scores shot under lift, clean and place rules do not count. That's why there are no 59s in European Tour history because their sub-60 scores have all been shot under preferred lies (or if par is less than 70).