Power tower

[swizbeatz]

Course I play has power lines and a tower running in between two holes. Both holes have OB left with the tower down the right amongst bunkers so a pretty popular spot to hit it. Local rule says hit the tower or the wire and it's an auto re-hit. The tower itself is marked white GUR and you get a drop. Is there any reason a player shouldn't get relief from behind the tower? In the past I've seen people just blast it through until they don't hit it but the other day I was only about 10 feet behind it ready to go for the green with a 3 wood and almost killed myself when the ball came right back at me off one of the cross beams.

 

Should a player get relief if behind it? If not can a local rule be implemented that allows for a drop if a player feels it would be dangerous to hit through it?

[Newby]

It may be worth asking your Rules authority (USGA, R&A or National organisation) for permission for such a local rule.

These two decisions don't quite answer your question.

 

33-8/17

Local Rule Providing Line-of-Sight Relief from Irrigation-Control Boxes

 

Q.Irrigation-control boxes, which are about two feet wide and four feet high, have been installed near a number of fairways. Would it be appropriate for a Committee to adopt a Local Rule under which relief would be provided from such boxes when they intervene on the line of play, i.e., line-of-sight relief?

 

A.No. Providing line-of-sight relief from permanent immovable obstructions is not authorized, except in very unusual circumstances. It is not unusual for irrigation-control boxes to be located near fairways.

 

33-8/18

Local Rule Providing Line-of-Sight Relief from Protective Fence Near Line of Play

 

If a wire fence is erected to protect players on the tee of one hole from errant shots played at another hole, and it is relatively close to the line of play of the other hole, it would be permissible to make a Local Rule allowing a player whose ball is in such a position that the fence intervenes on his line of play to drop the ball, without penalty, not nearer the hole in a specified dropping zone.

[Stuart_G]

Normally, no a player should not get relief for line of sight, line of intended play for an immovable obstruction. And no, the 'danger' isn't really a viable reason to get relief (he can avoid the danger by not trying to hit through it). However, it appears that the USGA may support a local rule that can allow that kind of relief in some cases (see dec above in Newby's post.).

 

I would think there is a good chance it might qualify for an exception as it is a fairly atypical and unusual situation for which the course has no real control of (as opposed to the irrigation control boxes).

[swizbeatz]

I was just watching the Turkish open and same thing came up, immovable so they didn't give him relief. I agree about don't hit it over there but with the layout of the holes it's pretty common. The average golfer is 50 yards behind it so whack away with no danger, longer hitters are in or right behind it. Just seems weird that if I'm in it or it obstructs my swing I get a drop, if I'm 5 feet further back my options are chip out or potentially hurt myself trying to hit it through.

[Sawgrass]

Oddly, the problem would be in some way resolved if the auto re-hit were limited to the power lines, and didn't include the tower itself. That way no one would be disadvantaged if they risked hitting through it. The tower is in the rough anyway!

 

I appreciate the rule requiring a re-hit from the lines that presumably cross the fairway. But the tower?

[swizbeatz]

It's in play enough that it would seem weird to me to not replay a shot that hit the tower. It's huge too.

 

Edit - lines don't cross the fairway. Run parallel to both holes.

[Stuart_G]

I appreciate the rule requiring a re-hit from the lines that presumably cross the fairway. But the tower?

 

Note the part in bold.

 

3-8/13

 

Local Rule for Ball Deflected by Power Line

 

 

Q.An overhead power line is so situated that it interferes with the play of a hole. Would it be appropriate for the Committee to make a Local Rule allowing a player whose ball is deflected by this power line the option to replay the stroke, without penalty, if he wishes?

 

A.No. However, a Local Rule requiring a player to replay the stroke would be acceptable. The following text is suggested:

 

"If a ball strikes the power line during play of the ____ hole, the stroke is canceled and the player must play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played in accordance with Rule 20-5 (Making Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Made)."

 

In some cases the Committee may wish to include in the Local Rule the towers or poles supporting such lines when the towers or poles are positioned such that they interfere with the play of the hole.

[Sawgrass]

I appreciate the rule requiring a re-hit from the lines that presumably cross the fairway. But the tower?

 

Note the part in bold.

 

3-8/13

 

Local Rule for Ball Deflected by Power Line

 

 

Q.An overhead power line is so situated that it interferes with the play of a hole. Would it be appropriate for the Committee to make a Local Rule allowing a player whose ball is deflected by this power line the option to replay the stroke, without penalty, if he wishes?

 

A.No. However, a Local Rule requiring a player to replay the stroke would be acceptable. The following text is suggested:

 

"If a ball strikes the power line during play of the ____ hole, the stroke is canceled and the player must play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played in accordance with Rule 20-5 (Making Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Made)."

 

In some cases the Committee may wish to include in the Local Rule the towers or poles supporting such lines when the towers or poles are positioned such that they interfere with the play of the hole.

 

Yes, I realize the rule is acceptable. But it isn't necessary, and perhaps overly generous. if it were irrigation control boxes in the rough, or buildings for that matter, you'd simply have to deal with them in terms of line of play.

[Sawgrass]

It's in play enough that it would seem weird to me to not replay a shot that hit the tower. It's huge too.

 

Edit - lines don't cross the fairway. Run parallel to both holes.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

But in my (ruthless) opinion, in that circumstance I'd say, "Play it as it lies!"

[Stuart_G]

Yes, I realize the rule is acceptable. But it isn't necessary, and perhaps overly generous. if it were irrigation control boxes in the rough, or buildings for that matter, you'd simply have to deal with them in terms of line of play.

 

Course designers have pretty complete control over where the vast majority of obstructions will be located with respect to how the holes are designed to be played. That's not always the case for these types of power lines. Ideally the hole routing would be such that the towers wont interfere with play, however that may not always be possible (and it sounds like that's the case here).

 

swizbeatz - can you give the coordinates or address we could bring up this particular layout in google earth? Would help to see the actual situation.

[swizbeatz]

Polo fields in Ann Arbor MI. Holes 7 and 8, farthest south/west part of the course.

[swizbeatz]

The tower isn't in play much on 7, the lines sometimes if you hit it right. On 8 which is a par 5 it's right there about 10 yards tops into the right rough and in the landing zone for most longer hitters. OB left on both, mounds left on 7, super penal bunker left on 8, basically everyone tries to take it down the right side of both holes.

[mukster]

This it?

[swizbeatz]

Yep that's it, tower is amongst those 3 foot tall trees/shrubs to the right side of the left hole #8.

 

Crux of the issue was I thought there might be some local rule implemented if you could harm yourself by playing through the tower. Ie if you far enough back who cares just hit and pray but if your just far enough away to not get relief and could hurt yourself there could be something done.

[rawdog]

Wow, interesting setup. If I'm playing a sweeping draw on 7, I could see hitting that thing. Google Earth has it 154 yards out from the second furthest tee box. If anything, it seems to play like a tree. It forces the shape of your shot a bit on #7, no?

 

On 8, it is 298 out from the second furthest tee box, so even if I crushed a ball, I'd only maybe roll to the base of it. Wouldn't affect my tee shot, but could see it interfering with a second.

[swizbeatz]

It's far enough right on 7 you would only hit it with a push slice. I play a huge draw and have never hit it in 200+ rounds. 8 often plays downwind, most events are from the one up box, hence me being just behind it a lot. The left bunker on 8 has a pretty big front lip and is the worst spot to hit it off the tee IMO .

[HitEmTrue]

Install a small water hazard directly behind (from hole #8 perspective) the tower. :)

[Stuart_G]

I'm probably biased since I regularly play courses with heavy tree lines and hitting a shot behind that tower would be the equivalent of hitting into the woods and likely loosing the ball. So I'm not sure I would consider that really interfering with the _intended_ play of the hole. But I can certainly see the appeal of wanting to hit it over there.

 

But the option is potentially there to get line of play relief in a local rule. Have you discussed it with the course management?

 

 

[Shilgy]

Oddly, the problem would be in some way resolved if the auto re-hit were limited to the power lines, and didn't include the tower itself. That way no one would be disadvantaged if they risked hitting through it. The tower is in the rough anyway!

 

I appreciate the rule requiring a re-hit from the lines that presumably cross the fairway. But the tower?

As it is at my home course. Like on the OP's hole the powerline runs in between two holes. Our local rule is for the line only-not the tower that is about 220 off the tee and quite a bit left of the fairway.

Wow, interesting setup. If I'm playing a sweeping draw on 7, I could see hitting that thing. Google Earth has it 154 yards out from the second furthest tee box. If anything, it seems to play like a tree. It forces the shape of your shot a bit on #7, no?

 

On 8, it is 298 out from the second furthest tee box, so even if I crushed a ball, I'd only maybe roll to the base of it. Wouldn't affect my tee shot, but could see it interfering with a second.

Rawdog nailed it (no pun intended), albeit accidentally I think, think of the tower as a tree. Would you get relief from a tree? It is away from the line of play so no replay from the tower hit. That would be an overly generous local rule imo. You just hit a shot 20+ yards offline and get to replay it because it happened to hit the tower?

[swizbeatz]

The local rule to replay the shot is already there and not changing. I was just thinking if the potential is there to harm yourself there could be a remedy. They planted veggies under the tower and its marked with white lines, if you drive it in there you get a drop. If you don't hit it far enough to be close you can hit as many times as it takes. But if your five feet on the wrong side you either have to chip out or risk injury. Seemed weird to me.

[swizbeatz]

I'm probably biased since I regularly play courses with heavy tree lines and hitting a shot behind that tower would be the equivalent of hitting into the woods and likely loosing the ball. So I'm not sure I would consider that really interfering with the _intended_ play of the hole. But I can certainly see the appeal of wanting to hit it over there.

 

But the option is potentially there to get line of play relief in a local rule. Have you discussed it with the course management?

 

Agree on 7, on 8 it's like 10 feet off the fairway. If I want to be in the trees 10 feet off the fairway I'll go to our other course which every hole is like that with massive trees. :)

 

I plan on bringing it up but wanted opinions first from the experts to see if I had any legitimate beef. It could be viewed as only being a + for the better players. My thought was something along the line of if your group agrees there is potential to cause injury you would get relief, otherwise play it as the local rule already plays.

[rawdog]

Thanks for the clarification on how it plays into #7.

 

I'd still look at it as similar to playing a tree-lined area. That fairway left of the tower is the widest part of the hole, almost saying, look, we know there is a tower to the right, so here is some extra fairway.

 

As far as it being a danger, it's about as dangerous as firing away to get out of some woods. There's a chance you could get a ricochet, just like off of a tree.

[Stuart_G]

My thought was something along the line of if your group agrees there is potential to cause injury you would get relief, otherwise play it as the local rule already plays.

 

Unfortunately, that's not going to get you anywhere from the standpoint of a local rule that the USGA would approve of. I'd stick to using dec 33-8/18 above - arguing that it interferes with the play of the hole would be your best bet.

[swizbeatz]

I can't carry it into the left fairway. Either catches the bunker or sits in the rough. The right rough is always harder, I carry it ~260 and often end up right behind the tower. If I could easily get it over the trap I would definitely hit it in the left side of fairway but in reality the landing zone is more like the narrowest part.

 

Agree about playing out of woods except you don't get a redo if you hit a tree. If im punching out I'm playing it safe relatively speaking. There's no reason to hit anything but 3 wood at the green except for the potential of a 150mph ball coming back at your head because if you do hit something you just replay the shot. :)

[HitEmTrue]

Thanks for the clarification on how it plays into #7.

 

I'd still look at it as similar to playing a tree-lined area. That fairway left of the tower is the widest part of the hole, almost saying, look, we know there is a tower to the right, so here is some extra fairway.

 

As far as it being a danger, it's about as dangerous as firing away to get out of some woods. There's a chance you could get a ricochet, just like off of a tree.

 

It isn't the same scenario as a tree. Hit the tower, you get to replay. No incentive (except for your safety) to aim away from the tower on your 2nd shot.

 

< edit >

I agree with Sawgrass. Shouldn't be a replay for hitting that tower.

[rawdog]

Thanks for the clarification on how it plays into #7.

 

I'd still look at it as similar to playing a tree-lined area. That fairway left of the tower is the widest part of the hole, almost saying, look, we know there is a tower to the right, so here is some extra fairway.

 

As far as it being a danger, it's about as dangerous as firing away to get out of some woods. There's a chance you could get a ricochet, just like off of a tree.

 

It isn't the same scenario as a tree. Hit the tower, you get to replay. No incentive (except for your safety) to aim away from the tower on your 2nd shot.

 

< edit >

I agree with Sawgrass. Shouldn't be a replay for hitting that tower.

 

I understand your point, but that wasn't my point. My point wasn't about incentives to avoid the danger, it was about the level of danger itself.

 

I disagree with the "auto replay" as well. Do you always have to take the replay? If it grazes the tower and you end up happy with your shot can you keep it?

 

What about if you hit the tower with your drive but it's 300+ yards away and you can't see it? It just seems like a gimmicky rule.

[HitEmTrue]

I disagree with the "auto replay" as well. Do you always have to take the replay?

 

Yes.

 

I don't disagree with the rule itself. I just don't think it should be in place for this tower.

[Newby]

Now I see the situation, I can't see the USGA permitting a LR giving line of site relief. It is not like a safety net, put there to protect others who have no control over a flying ball hit by someone else.

As said by someone else, the player has control, he can avoid danger by choosing a different direction. Much like a big tree that you got too close to.

[HatsForBats]

I would prefer to see a local rule giving relief as the towers definitely look like a popular spot given the O/B on the outside of each hole. A course I play has a stonewall on the first hole and gives relief for the swing and line of sight. The below link to the scorecard shows the local rule and even pictures the stone wall.

 

http://d2tbfnbweol72x.cloudfront.net/wp-content/blogs.dir/1373/files/2014/03/Scorecard-1.png

[Shilgy]

I would prefer to see a local rule giving relief as the towers definitely look like a popular spot given the O/B on the outside of each hole. A course I play has a stonewall on the first hole and gives relief for the swing and line of sight. The below link to the scorecard shows the local rule and even pictures the stone wall.

 

http://d2tbfnbweol72...Scorecard-1.png

But considering they call it a "relic" I am guessing that is more for historic preservation than the convenience or safety of the golfer.