How many rounds a year do you need in order to justify a buying a membership?

[BG5]

Gents,

 

How many rounds a year must one play in order to justify paying for a membership?

[2bGood]

71.8

 

 

Seriously there is no answer to this question as it depends on so many factors. If you just want to look at $ take how much you pay per round on average at public courses and the divide the you annual membership fee by that number.

 

Ie: you pay $85 a round now at a public course and you all in golf fee for a membership will be $300/month:

 

$300/ $85 = 3.5 rounds per month to get full value out of your monthly fee

 

or

 

42 rounds per year

 

If you have a join fee choose how long you want to amortize it for based on how long at minimum you will be member. $10K to join. You plan to be a member for 5 years = $2k Per year or $167/month

 

That means another 2 rounds per month to get value out of the joining fee.

 

Then maybe you have a great practice area or gym, so you deduct those costs if that is something you are paying for elsewhere ad run the number again.

 

There also lots of factors that are not purely numbers. My club is 5 minutes from my house and play in about 3:45. I save about 2 hours (travel and slow play) by playing there vs a public course.

 

You have to factor those in apply a value to them.

[raynorfan1]

Huge difference between membership at a fully private facility and "season ticket" at a public course.

 

In the public course scenario, it's a simple breakeven based on how much you plan to play and what the cost(s) are.

 

For a private course, there's a whole bunch of "value" that's hard to put a number on - convenience of the course, pace of play, accessibility/use of other facilities, etc. But no matter how you ascribe the value, I think it's fair to say that the economics never work...

[2bGood]

Huge difference between membership at a fully private facility and "season ticket" at a public course.

 

In the public course scenario, it's a simple breakeven based on how much you plan to play and what the cost(s) are.

 

For a private course, there's a whole bunch of "value" that's hard to put a number on - convenience of the course, pace of play, accessibility/use of other facilities, etc. But no matter how you ascribe the value, I think it's fair to say that the economics never work...

 

I am not sure that is always true. We have lots of (retired) guys that are play enough at our club that there cost per round is under $20. One of our guys averaged 400 rounds per year for about 10 years. His cost per round got close to $10. Then in our area there are lots of great deals for under 40 players where IF they like to golf at all it way cheaper from them play private clubs then public clubs.

 

 

Sometime the numbers do work out in you favour .

[North Butte]

The biggest factor around here is walk vs ride. If you will pay your club 15, 18, even 20 dollars a round for a cart the economics gets tricky in comparison to some public course you can play for 35 bucks cart included via GolfNow.

 

But if you walk, in my neck of the woods you'll darned near have to join a private club to have that privilege. Many publics are no-walking-allowed, either all the time or at weekends.

[tjblue]

Once a week or roughly 50. I'd want to use the course at least once a week to get my value. Add in the ability to walk a few holes in the evening is a bonus.

[Splitter]

1 if you find a sugar momma at the club

 

365 if you find a divorce

[North Butte]

Of course you can walk a few holes of an evening at most public courses, as well. They'll just charge you a few bucks for it.

[Bonneville85308]

I joined a club years ago simply because I couldn't play public courses around here after work because they are packed with leagues, I couldn't stand the pace of play after mid-morning on the weekends (but didn't want to tee off at 8am). Number of rounds had nothing to do with it. I've been a 75+ round per year guy pretty much all of my adult life. You'll never justify it financially based on number of rounds unless it is a very inexpensive Midwest club, a season pass to a public course, or you are retired and can play 200+ rounds per year. We have some members whose average cost per round is north of $500, they don't play much at all.

[North Butte]

It's funny what people will put up with. There's an allegedly "private" course in my area that also is open to public play and even participates in GolfNow. Their members pay about 70-80% of what I pay for private-club dues and still face what cherokee8215 mentions as all the disadvantages of public golf. On weekend mornings in peak season the members either tee off at 8:00-8:30am or else get stuck in the crowd playing 4-1/2 hour rounds mid morning. And on weekday evenings the course has after-work leagues or whatever you call it.

 

Never have been able to figure out what benefit exactly their members are paying several thousand dollars a year for but it seems to be working for them. Takes all kinds I guess.

[agressivve707]

Before I worked at one, I had memberships at the two local muni's in my area.

 

The first one was $1100/year one time payment, or $110/Mo ($1320/yr) for unlimited green fee's to two separate 18 hole courses. To rent a cart was $12 per day, but sometimes I would get 36 in on one cart. This place also had cart barns for private use which came with its own set of prices and benefits unknown to me, apparently the wait list was 20 years long and because of things like getting grand-fathered in, people had to die in order for new names to get in; but I did have a friend who's dad had one and we'd occasionally get to use it for ourselves which would cost me $5/per. I didn't account for this in my calculations, but figured it was worth mentioning.

 

By the time I started playing 3-5 times a week I knew I had to get serious about a membership somewhere. Instead of calculating the real price, I used the lower end twilight golfnow range which was usually $24 first to see a ballpark number. If I played 3 rounds a week at that price, I was paying about roughly $288/Mo ($3456/yr). 12 rounds per month with membership/$12 cart fee came out to $244/mo which seems arguable enough to say, ''Well stick with GOlfnow and play all over the place.'' But considering the calculated number was for the low end twilight rate, the membership included any time of day, and that I could (and probably sohuld) walk the course for free, it was a no-brainer. The fact there were two separate 18 hole courses, it was closest to me, and I had tons of friends who were members were all added incentives, but weren't really calculated in to my membership decision.

 

THe second one was to a much different kind of course, but still a public. Was in the same area, but only 18 holes. No private cart option, but cart plan available through them. Theirs had 3 types of membership, 7-days a week any time was annual prepaid of $1926/yr or $169/mo ($2028/yr), weekday anytime and weekend afternoon was $1242/yr prepaid, or $109/mo ($1308/yr) and seniors aged 60+ was only $786/yr for prepaid! or $69/mo ($828/yr). Carts were also $12/round, but for the plan was $798/yr or $70/mo. When calculated in the same way (They had about the same rates as the other place) @ $179 w/ cart, this became the new no-brainer for me, despite being a little further away and having less friends there, I felt the place was a much tougher course, and much better for the entirety of my game. Of course there were other factors too.

 

All this to say the variations that go in to the justification of a membership are many, but considering the amount of rounds played is usually a good place to start.

 

Very roughly speaking, at these two places, I had to play more than 10-rounds of twilight golf per month for the membership to be worth it to me. So 120 rounds in the year.

[payerasjl]

Nothing like 2.5 hour rounds on weekends :) Time is money my friends

[1puttTUT]

I probably only get 30 rounds a year out at OU and I still feel like it's worth it due to the convenience and quality of golf.

[vallygolf]

In my experience at private clubs those who are consistently worried about value dont last too long. Many months will pass where there is little "value" but other months it is a great "value". The members who always seemed to be crunching the value train saw less benefit due to the down months (I just paid 400 bucks last month for one week of play due to overseed?.....I just had knee surgery and paid 1,200 bucks for no golf in 3 months?). Im not saying there is anything wrong crunching numbers, just an observation that in my experience those who do it consistently are less satisfied and normally leave the club. Im not sure if this would be a constant concern for you, but it can become a detriment to your enjoyment of the private route.

[ChipDriver]

Gents,

 

How many rounds a year must one play in order to justify paying for a membership?

 

I play a bunch of business golf - and as long as I get 1 deal/contract per year, it will pay for all of my golf and more.

 

So my answer is "1"....the problem is figuring out WHICH one!.

 

Your question will illicit a thousand answers - none of them the same. Country clubs aren't about making monetary sense - they are about personal satisfaction from a luxury item VS personal satisfaction using the money for something else. Which makes you happier? which one makes you happiest?

[North Butte]

I'll just say this. If you're ever going to crunch the numbers, better to do it before you pay out an initiation fee than after!

[BG5]

Gents,

 

I have been a member and will continue to do so but was just curious. I usually get in 50-70 rounds a year.

 

I am a member at Angels Crossing which is a public course in Michigan. It is one of the top 25 best public courses in Michigan and always plays fast and firm which I love. Cost on the weekends is $49 and weekdays is $42. The course is packed which can be a problem with pace of play but it always in good condition.

 

The plus is the course is 9 minutes away from my house which is great. Additioanlly I pay $2100 for a family membership which includes cart which is pretty reasonable considering what others pay for golf. It allows me to take out my 5 year old son and my 9 year old daughter and have fun with them as well. They both made it out with me about 10 times this year.

 

My wife also plays a bit and she came out about 10 times as well. I likely would not of done this without the membership.

 

The only issue I have is I like to hop around a bit so being tied to one course can get old after a while but there are not a lot of great options that are close to me so I dont mind being a member at one of the better public courses in the area. I enjoy golfing with friends and at $49 I have a few buddies who dont want to pay that per round so that had me double thinking my decision.

 

Overall, I am happy and do feel I get the value along with being able to share it with my family.

 

Check out the course.

 

Www.golfangelscrossing.com

 

Cheers!

[North Butte]

I enjoy golfing with friends and at $49 I have a few buddies who dont want to pay that per round so that had me double thinking my decision.

 

Other than my overall cost, the one drawback I perceive from being a member of a member-owned private course is when I invite friends or acquaintances to play. Depending on season and whether they want a cart it ranges from around $40 to over $50 for their guest fee. I personally can't afford to offer very many people per year a round with my compliments and some of the guys I know are fairly casual golfers perfectly happy on nearby public courses that can be played for 20, 30 or 40 bucks.

 

On the one hand, guests seem to really enjoy our course and the condition it's usually in. On the other, fifty bucks is fifty bucks. And to a guy who plays a $25 public 8-10 times a year it seems expensive to come play with me.

 

I'm probably one of the rare breed perfectly happy to play the same course a couple thousand times over a 10-15 years period. I probably play 10-ish rounds a year elsewhere which is plenty of variety for me. Not everyone enjoys repetition, I understand.

[tw422]

I've gone back and forth on this question over the past 10 yrs. Here's what I've come up with - it never makes financial sense to join a private club. Specifically, trying to quantify the benefit based on financial criterion that justifies the decision will never add up. It really boils down to a qualitative, personal decision. I'm 46 yrs old and have moved 3 times in professional career. If I had joined a club in my 30's I would have take a huge financial hit when I moved (sunk cost of initiation). That said, if you can find a way to quantify the qualitative benefits such as time, ease of getting on a course, friendships that result in furthering your business interests and the overall camaraderie, it will help you in the justification process.

[ChipDriver]

I've gone back and forth on this question over the past 10 yrs. Here's what I've come up with - it never makes financial sense to join a private club. Specifically, trying to quantify the benefit based on financial criterion that justifies the decision will never add up. It really boils down to a qualitative, personal decision. I'm 46 yrs old and have moved 3 times in professional career. If I had joined a club in my 30's I would have take a huge financial hit when I moved (sunk cost of initiation). That said, if you can find a way to quantify the qualitative benefits such as time, ease of getting on a course, friendships that result in furthering your business interests and the overall camaraderie, it will help you in the justification process.

 

Just a suggestion - the next time you consider moving - have your employer factor in another $50K as a signing bonus and/or membership into a local golf club (do your homework and tell them which one).

 

They will most likely give you one or the other or both.

[ratspros]

I think the people that say it never pays really don't understand just how much some other people golf. Around here in a 6 month season average yearly dues are between $3,000-$6,000 per year. Green fees at average public tracks are between $60-$100 a round. So let's go with the average of $4,500 a year and $80 a round all it takes is playing 57 rounds and you are breaking even. I know plenty of people that get in well over 150 rounds in our short season. True you have to amortize your initiation but half the clubs around here are equity so you are getting 80% of it back when and if you leave.

 

Also you have to look at the business side of things. Me with being in real estate an average commission on a house sale is around $25,000. That means I just have to sell one house to a member every 5 years that I normally wouldn't sell if I hadn't joined and ever met that member. Joining a golf club and being actively involved so people know who you are is probably one the best business/marketing decisions someone in real estate can make.

[Sean2]

My average round this year cost $1.05, this includes range time (including a pitching range), putting greens, bunker complex, 9 hole short course (average hole 73 yards), and a gym.

[ode1]

Reading threads like this makes me appreciate my 1k per year membership, greens fees, cart, and range....can't imagine ever spending the kind of coin some posters are saying they do.

 

My break even point is met after 2 mos. of the 8 mo. season, but I don't think about it in those terms, I just love to play.....would be happy playing a decent muni. Exclusive clubs have never been and never will be in the cards.

[WiscoGolfAddict]

Depends on age at my club - when I joined, it cost me ~ $24/round... + carts + lots of drinks + food...

 

At 37, it's a bit higher now but still well worth it for the convenience of quick rounds, easy access, a great course and a fun community.

[Golfnuck]

Thought I would give this calc a try.

 

Initiation fee - $50,000 dividend by 15 years (estimate of how many years an average member would remain active in a club) = $3,333 per year.

 

Monthly dues and costs - $600 * 12 = $7,200

 

Total fixed costs $10,533

 

Daily cost of a round at a high end public facility in my area - $80 to $100

 

So at $80 I would need to play 131 rounds.

 

At $100 I would need to play 105 rounds.

 

For the last few year I average about 80 round a year at my course.

 

This does not include meals and other purchases made at the pro shop as you would spend that also at a public facility.

[ChipDriver]

Thought I would give this calc a try.

 

Initiation fee - $50,000 dividend by 15 years (estimate of how many years an average member would remain active in a club) = $3,333 per year.

 

Monthly dues and costs - $600 * 12 = $7,200

 

Total fixed costs $10,533

 

Daily cost of a round at a high end public facility in my area - $80 to $100

 

So at $80 I would need to play 131 rounds.

 

At $100 I would need to play 105 rounds.

 

For the last few year I average about 80 round a year at my course.

 

This does not include meals and other purchases made at the pro shop as you would spend that also at a public facility.

 

So assuming you play 50 rounds as a swag - you have to determine if $5000 a year is worth it?

 

Looked at another way - are you getting $5,000 additional value over fancy public golf?

 

It gets down to how much luxury you're willing to pay for. Lots of clubs charge the same price but fail to deliver the same level of luxury

 

 

[DonatelloNobodie]

You have 3 options:

 

Private club membership – cost per round will never be a factor. You pay for guaranteed tee times; fast pace of play; and a finite set of players to get to know and play with. Risks are loss of initiation fee if the club closes or gets sold, or you move; and assessments that can be substantial, although infrequent; and minimum spend requirements in the restaurant. You may be charged extra for a cart. Pool, tennis, and gym man be a plus to those that might use them. Some people feel good about appearances of exclusivity or affluence.

 

Annual pass at a public – this often makes financial sense with cost per round. Despite what some may feel, you are not a “member” of anything, even though that term may be used. You’re just paid for a season of golf. Positive is the low cost per round if you play a lot. You will likely get to know “regulars” and thus find groups to play with. Carts may be included – if not, that cost can negate any cost per round savings. Downside is a very slow pace of play, weekend morning tee time shortages, and having to play with random choppers unless you bring your own group. You won’t impress anyone with your “membership”…

 

Daily fee golf – same negatives as the above annual pass. Added positives are not being tied to the same course (variety and the ability to move if conditions or service are disappointing). Tee time discounters like GolfNow and TeeOff can significantly reduce cost, if you shop around. Your cost per round will always be less that a private, without risk of hidden costs or loss of initiation fee. Depending upon weather & other factors, many public courses are conditioned as well as or better than privates at any given point in time. Many are obviously in poor condition and can be avoided.

 

Deciding:

 

Private:

If you are not going to relocate in the next few years

If you are willing to pay extra for a faster pace of play

If you want convenient tee times with no effort

If saying that you belong to a club make you feel good or important

(There are plenty of better health clubs, pools and restaurants to be found elsewhere)

 

Annual Pass:

If you play a lot of golf and/or hit practice balls a lot and want the lowest annual cost

If you like the course, relative to other public courses

 

Daily Fee:

If you want to play different courses, for variety or to avoid conditioning or service problems

If you have friends that play different courses

If you do not play enough to justify an annual pass, based on cost per round

[bazinky]

Cost per round doesn't work me in this type of calculation. My cost per round at a public would $0, because I wouldn't be getting any rounds in (slight exaggeration, but you get the picture), so it's a simple It's a binary equation: I either play where I can get out early on the weekends and play at a good pace, or I don't get to play much at all.

 

That said, I love this game enough that I am willing to pay a substantial premium just to have the opportunity to play

[mallrat]

Rounds were only part of it for me. For me unlimited range balls, access to a real short game area and partial rounds were more important. A fellow member and I used to head out on Friday afternoons and we would only play 6-9 holes. He would take a ball retriever and either fish out or search the areas where people lose balls. He would come home with 20+ balls every Friday and we'd just cruise and play. So nice to be able to head out after work and not worry about if you finish your round.

[North Butte]

Rounds were only part of it for me. For me unlimited range balls, access to a real short game area and partial rounds were more important. A fellow member and I used to head out on Friday afternoons and we would only play 6-9 holes. He would take a ball retriever and either fish out or search the areas where people lose balls. He would come home with 20+ balls every Friday and we'd just cruise and play. So nice to be able to head out after work and not worry about if you finish your round.

 

You don't have to worry about not finishing a round at a public course either.

 

That reasoning always slays me. If you pay $400/month to be a private club member you don't worry about quitting after six holes. But if you pay a $40 green fee you can't afford to quit until you finish nine holes?