M1 vs M2 if Cost Were the Same

[Hstead]

Well, the Ping G LS Tec is on it's way out and the Taylormade M? is on it's way in the bag. I haven't been hitting the driver like I have wanted to lately after a swing change and wanted to find something I hit more consistently straight.

 

So I borrowed the assistant Pros M2 today with a Kuro Kage Silver X 9.5. I hit it so much better than my Ping. I am not sure if it is because I warmed up with the M2 and adjusted to the shaft and then could not readjust to the Ping, but I hit the M2 way better. I played 18 and I hit it WAY more accurate today off of the tee than I have in a long time.

 

Now I have to figure out what specs I want, and if I want the M1 or M2. I can get both for the same exact price. I believe I am going to go with a 10.5 in the M2 or the 9.5 in the M1. I have seen where the M2 seems to launch a touch lower and I want to hit it higher. I will probably go with the White Tie since I wasn't crazy about the KK.

 

So, if you could choose either for the same exact price, do you go with the M1 for more adjustability, or the M2 for a little more forgiveness?

 

I hit it plenty long, I want a fairway finder. I will most likely order it at 45" or maybe even 44.5" too so the lightweight M2 head concerns me a little.

[DaRiz]

Personally I can't stand sliding weights so M2 all day

[Doc420]

I would hit them both, I hit the m1 a little more consistent, but both drivers were a lighter than the Sldr I had before. It still took a few weeks adjustment period for me.

[Tac]

A few weeks ago I bought an M2 10.5 with a Rogue Silver stiff in it. The numbers in the sim said it was a bit better than the G30 I was using this past summer.

 

A week later, in the same store I saw an M1 9.5 with a Rogue Silver x-stiff (I prefer an x-stiff as I have an aggressive downswing) huh I didn't notice at my last visit.

 

I had the M2 in my car so I compared them.

 

The two were very similar in launch and spin except that for each club --- on the shots I hit really, really well --- the M1 9.5 wth the x-stiff was about ten yards longer and tighter in dispersion.

 

On the average shots, the two clubs were pretty similar.

[BForrester]

I personally like the adjustablity of the M1. I've got mine set in the low spin setting, lofted down from 10.5 to 8.5, and the draw/fade weight set to a slight fade.

[Boricua Golf]

At the Gear Trials I hit both, the M1 "for me" was the overall best performer (the G LST was 2nd btw), BUT, the M2 was more forgiving, you can't go wrong with either, go and demo both "get fitted" and make the decision that works best for your swing tendencies...after the adjustments in shafts and weight settings the M1 was further and I felt that I could go after it and not worry about a way out miss left or right, the M2 was easier to hit, but the lack of adjustments (for my swing) kept the spin numbers a bit higher than optimal, again, for me, I really wanted to like it, we tried different shafts (length, weight, kick points, etc), it got close at 44.5" with a Tour AD DI 7X shaft, but again the M1 was just better for my swing...like I stated before, you can't go wrong with either if properly fitted, good luck

[cgasucks]

I've never swung both clubs but for maximum flexibility I would choose the M1. Rick Shiels did a head to head on his Youtube channel and there was like 1 yard difference from each other.

[Nessism]

If you hit your pro's club so well I'd order and set up your new club the exact same way as his. Anything else is opening up a can of worms.

[cadman88]

If you hit your pro's club so well I'd order and set up your new club the exact same way as his. Anything else is opening up a can of worms.

 

This...!

[SoCalTitleist]

Get both

[jll62]

I played M1 most of the season, but switched to M2 a couple months ago after side-by-side testing on TrackMan showed I was consistently getting 2-3 mph higher ball speeds from M2 using the same shaft. Both heads had been measured and were the same loft.

 

Might not seem like much, but that's around 5-8 yards more carry just from a head change. For those of us who swing it in the 105-108 range, that's a big deal because it's another bunker we can cover.

[swanry30]

since both are the same price now - money wont be a factor in you decision process...go with what fits you best.

[moonshine]

I have been comparing both slightly used and most times the m1 with a seemingly better array of shafts in better overall condition is less expensive. However, I have been on the positive side of being fit and the driver was a huge positive in my game. I always take a club I really like when comparing a new club...otherwise what's the point? I'm still hung up in the white...can't seem to pull the trigger. Good luck to OP...never liked the feel of any Ping driver I have tried.

[bobcat]

since both are the same price now - money wont be a factor in you decision process...go with what fits you best.

 

People need to realize that there is no direct relationship between price and how a driver will perform for you. It is always best to base your buying decision on how a particular driver PERFORMS for YOU! It probably won't be the one that costs the most, and adjustable features associated with the more expensive models are generally overrated in terms of their ability to provide any significant improvement to performance beyond fine-tuning the loft, and face angle, (fitting issues). These features don't make the driver's clubface any hotter, and by placing weight in undesirable locations, such features often create accuracy and forgiveness issues, and can have a negative effect on feel and sound too! If you don't need adjustable features, or don't use it, then you why risk the potential downsides these features can bring? Seem so many players just wind up going with the 'standard/neutral' positions on these ultra-expensive, adjustable drivers anyway.

 

 

:golfer:

[bauer22]

This is my advice, which you can take or leave.

 

If you go out and get fit for the driver go with the M2, as a properly fit M2 has been shown to be just as good as the M1... If you know your swing and shaft selection buy the M1 and play with the settings. I have the M1 and move the weights (both) from the front track to the way back depending on wind conditions at my home course. This varies the trajectory and peak heights. Normally I keep both weights in the back track and hit a high-fade ball. In really windy conditions, playing a course that almost always has a 15 yard cross wind, I move the weights to the front track and hit a lower power fade.

 

I bought the M1 after the price break from a Golfsmith going out of business so I received a great price and the ability to make changes will hopefully keep it in the bag for me for a few years.

 

Just my 2 cents, good luck!

[Kuuuch]

Liked the M1 better. Took me some time to get the weights, if I need some launch/forgiveness I'll put both weights in the back and I enjoy having that option.

[AC168]

Depends on spin. I need spin so M2 for me. Forgiveness some of it also. M1 less forgiving but potentially much lower spin.

[Nixhex524]

I went from the G30 to the M1 and while I really like the G30, the M1 has gotten me more fairways and longer down the fairway by 10 or so yards. I like the feel of the M1 better than the M2 and I prefer having the option to adjust my M1 as close to the M2 set up as possible. I used to laugh at adjustability but after going through my first fitting and reading a lot on this site, everything matters, so having the option to adjust launch and spin I think is a complete bonus when it comes to the M1. The M2 is obviously no slouch either, just for me, I prefer the M1 and haven't hit a driver this far in a while. It has almost been point and shoot as long as I don't try and hit it over the moon.

[Mathwiz]

Not sure if you are aware OP, but you can change out the weight in the M2. Taking the one half gram stock weight out and replacing with a six gram weight changed everything for the better for me. Probably changed the spin a little, but when it hits it rolls forever with dry conditions.

[jah7838]

I like the M1 better. I've tried them both with the Rogue silver, and just hit the M1 better. Just better overall numbers. Both are really good drivers though. I'm sure you could find similar numbers in both with a proper fitting.

[llewol007]

Well, the Ping G LS Tec is on it's way out and the Taylormade M? is on it's way in the bag. I haven't been hitting the driver like I have wanted to lately after a swing change and wanted to find something I hit more consistently straight.

 

So I borrowed the assistant Pros M2 today with a Kuro Kage Silver X 9.5. I hit it so much better than my Ping. I am not sure if it is because I warmed up with the M2 and adjusted to the shaft and then could not readjust to the Ping, but I hit the M2 way better. I played 18 and I hit it WAY more accurate today off of the tee than I have in a long time.

 

Now I have to figure out what specs I want, and if I want the M1 or M2. I can get both for the same exact price. I believe I am going to go with a 10.5 in the M2 or the 9.5 in the M1. I have seen where the M2 seems to launch a touch lower and I want to hit it higher. I will probably go with the White Tie since I wasn't crazy about the KK.

 

So, if you could choose either for the same exact price, do you go with the M1 for more adjustability, or the M2 for a little more forgiveness?

 

I hit it plenty long, I want a fairway finder. I will most likely order it at 45" or maybe even 44.5" too so the lightweight M2 head concerns me a little.

I say you buy the Driver off the head Pros hands since you know the results you get out of it if they are what you are looking for. Often times I try a driver out and when I end up ordering it, I order a completely different shaft from the one that won me over and suddenly it ends up not delivering for me the same results as the . I too love the M2 and would probably go with that if I felt the need to upgrade. With so many SLDR's out there on the cheap, I will just hold off for now. Mind you I have had half a dozen M1's and M2's in my stable. With the M1, you can only slide the weight so many times. The M2 felt like it had more pop. Good luck with your decision. It is a good one either way.

[Hstead]

If you hit your pro's club so well I'd order and set up your new club the exact same way as his. Anything else is opening up a can of worms.

He doesn't want to part with it. I wasn't crazy about the feel of the Kuro Kage and I would like to launch it a little higher.

 

I guess I'm going to bite the bullet and spend $75 at Man O War and get on the flight scope if they have enough X flex shafts to try. My pro was going to see if his rep would send him a few too for me.

[Kuuuch]

I saw the ping on the BST for a good price, its official!

[VJCLERC]

I would probably go with the M2. Once fitted and setup for me then you don't need to go messing about with it

[Hstead]

I saw the ping on the BST for a good price, its official!

 

Oh it's official alright lol. Another question, I believe I will need to raise the lie angle to at least 58.5. How many guys are playing it higher? I'm thinking I'll need to go 10.5 to raise it since it will lower the loft, don't want to play it closed I don't believe.

[Unteachable]

i went from the g30 lst to the m2 with a rogue silver this year- both fitted outdoors on the trackman. So much more accurate with the m2. Some of my absolute best may have been longer with the g30 but my average drive and fairways hit are way up with the m2

[nitram]

I've hit 'em both on more than one occasion and I've always stuck with the M1.

[halliedog]

I thought Tom Wishon already put to bed that all this adjustability is just marketing hogwash? Not enough weight able to be moved around to effect squat? So, which is it? Are you guys actually seeing traj and flight paths altered by moving M1 weights around, or is it a placebo effect?

 

I hate to speak for Tom, and maybe I'm mis-interpreting his posts, but he is pretty well respected around here, so if he says you can't move enough weight around with current moveable weight technology to effect spin/MOI/fade-draw bias, how are you guys seeing these changes?

 

**edit**

"Nessism and StuartG both have good things to say about this, but I will elaborate with a little more detailed explanation of this so you can be fully confident with the answer.

 

Face angle has more of an effect on shot dispersion than will moving weight from one side of the head to the other. There are several reasons:

 

1. Face angle represents a 1 degree to 1 degree reduction in the amount the face is delivered either open or closed to the ball to cause the slice or hook. All of us who do fade/slice or draw/hook the ball do that because whatever combination we have in our swing path and face delivery causes the face to be either open or closed enough to create the curvature of the shot. So that means our fade/slice or draw/hook can be explained by X number of degrees the face is open or closed at impact to the path and to the target line. Testing we've done over the years has shown that with everything else being equal in the driver, a change of 1* in the face angle FROM WHAT THE GOLFER'S FACE ANGLE WAS IN THE PREVIOUS DRIVER will bring about a 4 yard change in the sideways movement of the ball, based on a carry distance of the shot of 200 yds. So that also means the higher the clubhead speed, the more sideways correction you get per each degree of face angle change, and vice versa for slower clubhead speeds.

 

2. I might know more about the effect of moving weight on a driver head more than most because I started to dabble in this back in the late 80s, and then designed a driver head with a 44g weight put in the heel that was introduced for sale in 1995 with the name Accu Core 50 Driver. Let me fist explain how moving weight works to change ball flight shape, then I will tell you the results of the development testing that led to this Accu Core driver.

 

Let's talk moving weight to the heel as the example, since that is the weight movement direction intended to reduce a fade. The more weight you put on the heel side of the head, the more the center of gravity of the head is moved toward the heel side of the face. As you move the CG more toward the heel, this means when the shot is hit in the center of the face, the head now twists a little in a clockwise direction as you look down on the head. So in essence, by moving the CG more toward the heel, a center face impact becomes a little like what a toe side impact is when the CG is in the middle of the face. Most golfers who are essentially straight ball hitters have noted for a long time that a toe side impact brings about a little draw on the shot. This is what has been called the "horizontal gear effect."

 

With weight in the heel that moves the CG of the head a little toward the heel side of the face, that rotation of the head at impact from an on center hit now changes the angle of backspin rotation of the ball a little more in the direction of eventually being a draw shot rotation of the backspin of the ball. But only slightly because it takes a huge amount of weight in the heel to move the CG of the head far enough off the center of the face to cause an on center hit to make the head twist enough to change the angle of the backspin rotation on the shot.

 

In the development and testing I did for this Accu Core driver back in 95, the first prototype was made with a 25 gram weight in the heel side of the head. Testing done with pros as the control group showed only the smallest amount of the beginning of a draw for the pros whose normal shot tendency was a straight ball flight. At 35 grams in the second prototype, the draw or reduction in fade was more evident but still very slight. At 45 grams most of the pros saw a definite increase in their draw or reduction in their fades.

 

Then we tested with a driver with a center located CG but with different face angles. In general, a change of 1* in the face angle to be more closed brought about the same amount of draw tendency as the 35g weight in the heel, while a 2* change showed MORE draw effect than the 45g weight in the heel.

 

Conclusions

Weight movement in a head to bring about a visible change in shot shape depends on two major elements:

 

1) how much weight is in the heel or toe and how far away it is from the middle area of the head. Ball flight movement barely begins at 25 grams and then gradually increases a little as the weight is increased on whichever side of the head. But there most definitely is a trade off - the farther the CG moves away from the center of the face, the lower the ball speed can be when you hit the center of the face. This is because highest ball speeds typically come from hitting the ball directly in line or slightly above the CG of the head. Hitting the ball toward the toe or heel side of the CG starts to decrease ball speed and distance.

 

2) How consistent the golfer's delivery of the clubhead to the ball is and how high the golfer's clubhead speed is. Golfers who are much more consistent and repeatable with their swing path and delivery of the face to the ball see the effect of a change in the weight in the head much more than do golfers who have a +/-2* or more variation from swing to swing in their path and delivery of the face to the ball. And golfers who have a higher clubhead speed tend to see a little more effect of a change in the weight in the head on the ball flight shape because their higher speed means more ball speed which keeps the ball in the air longer so any change in the axis of backspin rotation from the weight movement in the head has more chance to displlay itself.

 

But the bottom line is this - weight movement for ball flight shape movement requires at the least a 25 gram movement of weight in the head, and it is chiefly for TWEAKING the shape of the shot only. Reducing an actual slice or hook is far better done with a face angle change for the golfer from what they used before.

 

And yes, as other posters have said, when fitting a golfer into a driver with a different face angle than what they had before, the golfer must let that head sit so the face angle change is seen in the address position. If the golfer rotates or otherwise moves the head to change that face angle in the address position, its effect is negated.

 

TOM"

[cane700]

I traded in a few clubs for an M1 with a rogue silver 70. Looking forward to the non-effect on my game.

[Hstead]

I traded in a few clubs for an M1 with a rogue silver 70. Looking forward to the non-effect on my game.

 

Come back and let me know what you think of it.