Putt with eyes over the ball line OR...

[thepinkbomber]

Curious where instructors online recommend placing the eyes relative to the ball line at address for putting. So many people default to eyes over the ball line. Heard that may distort seeing the line correctly. Curious if people came across this distortion and if having your eyes inside the ball line help see the line at setup better.

 

If you do have your eyes inside the ball line at address then how by how much? How did you determine that amount? Does it vary depending on the length of putt?

[thepinkbomber]

I have had one top instructor in my state that I trust tell me eyes over the ball line. I have also had another top instructor in my state who I also trust recently tell me eyes inside the ball line for the reason of line distortion.

 

Sean Foley:

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/sean-foley-putting-alignment

http://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2013/03/20/insider--the-real-reason-tiger-has-two-wins-early-in-2013.html

 

Foley indicates that "most" tour pros work on having their eyes inside the ball line for this reason.

[Matt J]

Supposedly directly over or slightly inside. Outside is the big "no no."

 

Get an old compact disc and flip it upside down. Sit the ball inside the hole. Use the mirror effect of the foil to look at your self as you address the ball. Memorize the way the ball looks when it blocks your dominant eye signaling that it is directly over the ball. Attempt to repeat without the CD. When in doubt err on inside.

[thepinkbomber]

Surprised for as many people that state eyes should be over the ball line they are not jumping in on the thread...

 

Any other articles about tour pros?

[thepinkbomber]

Found a few more references...

 

So I found my old Pelz Putting Bible. Dated but some good material. He strongly recommends eyes over the ball line. Pages 65 - 66 he demonstrates if your eyes are inside the ball line then you will have a different alignment angle for every putt from 3 feet, 12 feet, 30 feet the alignment angle will be different and you need to adjust on every putt. Sounds logical. Curious for those that do have the eyes inside if they adjust differently for each putt.

 

Also the mirrors that are sold market helping your eyes over the ball line. Both my EyeLine and Pelz putting mirrors have the ball line down the mirror with instructions to keep your eyes over the ball line. Granted this is product marketing material and doesn't make it fact but I don't see any mirrors out t here with instructions to keep your eyes inside with an inside eye line. You can do it yourself by watching your eyes inside the ball line rather than on it but the point is the instructions don't say that.

 

Curious what FlatStick recommends and why. Anyone know?

 

Found RotaryGolf video on recommending eyes on ball line for same reason as Pelz. Granted he even acknowledges his putting stopped him from staying pro but he is more research based.

 

Dave Stockton recommends eyes over the ball.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/dave-stockton-putt-like-the-pros

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/stocktonrules

 

The only references I find to keep the eyes inside are from Sean Foley. http://video.golfdigest.com/watch/sean-foley-eyes-on-the-inside-feb-2013

Sean makes an incredible claim in this video that 98% of tour players keep their eyes just inside to 3 inches inside. That is a big claim. He doesn't say how he figured out 98% do that.

[Dave D]

your eyes should be wherever allows you to see the putt as straight. different for everyone, for me im a couple of inches inside the ball line.

 

do a drill lining up 4 balls over say a 12 foot putt, make sure they are all dead in line, have someone stand in front of the 3rd ball so you cant see it or the 4th ball, set up to the first ball and line it up with the 2nd ball. Now have the person move and see where the 3rd ball appears in relation to the 4th ball. then repeat and try different head and eye positions until you get a straight line.

 

Very similar thing described by Mike Malaska on BBG channel:

 

[RichieHunt]

I never really bought into the eyes over the ball theory. I had noticed a few friends of mine that were great putters did not have their eyes of the ball.

 

IIRC, Geoff Mangum says that you want your eyes pointed in the same direction as your face (or close to it). Having to 'look down' is counterintuitive.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[thepinkbomber]

your eyes should be wherever allows you to see the putt as straight. different for everyone, for me im a couple of inches inside the ball line.

 

do a drill lining up 4 balls over say a 12 foot putt, make sure they are all dead in line, have someone stand in front of the 3rd ball so you cant see it or the 4th ball, set up to the first ball and line it up with the 2nd ball. Now have the person move and see where the 3rd ball appears in relation to the 4th ball. then repeat and try different head and eye positions until you get a straight line.

 

Very similar thing described by Mike Malaska on BBG channel:

 

Great way to test. Thank you. Will try it. Assume the 4 balls should be equally spaced across the 12 feet...

[Joelness]

Personally, I keep my eyes over the inside edge of the ball. For me this is just an effect of my comfortable alignment in making sure my shoulders are square with the proper posture, it has nothing to do with my sight line.

 

When it comes down to it I've learned to never trust the line my eyes tell me when I'm over the ball anyway. I always feel I'm aiming left. This is why I use the logo line on the ball to line myself up before I get over the ball. From there I line up to the line on the ball and just think of speed.

 

The biggest point I think is putting is an art and nobody does it the same. Find the methods that make you the best putter and go with it.

[Dave D]

your eyes should be wherever allows you to see the putt as straight. different for everyone, for me im a couple of inches inside the ball line.

 

do a drill lining up 4 balls over say a 12 foot putt, make sure they are all dead in line, have someone stand in front of the 3rd ball so you cant see it or the 4th ball, set up to the first ball and line it up with the 2nd ball. Now have the person move and see where the 3rd ball appears in relation to the 4th ball. then repeat and try different head and eye positions until you get a straight line.

 

Very similar thing described by Mike Malaska on BBG channel:

 

Great way to test. Thank you. Will try it. Assume the 4 balls should be equally spaced across the 12 feet...

yeah, I've done it once from a bout 12 foot and a couple of years later from about 16ft, may work on longer or shorter these are just the lengths I've done it the 2 times I've done the perception test.

[juststeve]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

[thepinkbomber]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Why does the putting path type (arc, sbst) matter if eyes are inside or online if there is a visual perception problem?

[Dave D]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Pure SBST only works if you putter is at a 90* lie angle, the putter will always swing on some sort of arc unless you have horrific hand manipulation.

 

The arc will tend to be a bit more pronounced the further you stand from the ball, its just physics really depending on the lie angle of your setup

[thepinkbomber]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Pure SBST only works if you putter is at a 90* lie angle, the putter will always swing on some sort of arc unless you have horrific hand manipulation.

 

The arc will tend to be a bit more pronounced the further you stand from the ball, its just physics really depending on the lie angle of your setup

It may be how far your hands are from the ball relative to your shoulders regarding the arc. Pelz discovered this but no one else talks about it. you can be closer or farther from the ball but if your hands are outside your shoulders then you will have a big arc. if your hands fall under your shoulders small arc. if your hands are inside your shoulders very small arc and closer to sbst. as you move your hands in that far I need to change my lie angle.

[Millbrook]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Pure SBST only works if you putter is at a 90* lie angle, the putter will always swing on some sort of arc unless you have horrific hand manipulation.

 

The arc will tend to be a bit more pronounced the further you stand from the ball, its just physics really depending on the lie angle of your setup

It may be how far your hands are from the ball relative to your shoulders regarding the arc. Pelz discovered this but no one else talks about it. you can be closer or farther from the ball but if your hands are outside your shoulders then you will have a big arc. if your hands fall under your shoulders small arc. if your hands are inside your shoulders very small arc and closer to sbst. as you move your hands in that far I need to change my lie angle.

 

I think this is correct but disagree with Daves comment regarding a 90* lie angle.

 

I'm as sbst as there is with no arc (or as little as possible). I have my eyes over the ball and the putter flat on the ground. Where my hands go is determined by where the handle is which is determined by the lie angle. In my case the hands are well inside the shoulders and both elbows point outwards parallel with the target line.

 

However I have to say I have never seen anyone else putt like this.

[Dave D]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Pure SBST only works if you putter is at a 90* lie angle, the putter will always swing on some sort of arc unless you have horrific hand manipulation.

 

The arc will tend to be a bit more pronounced the further you stand from the ball, its just physics really depending on the lie angle of your setup

It may be how far your hands are from the ball relative to your shoulders regarding the arc. Pelz discovered this but no one else talks about it. you can be closer or farther from the ball but if your hands are outside your shoulders then you will have a big arc. if your hands fall under your shoulders small arc. if your hands are inside your shoulders very small arc and closer to sbst. as you move your hands in that far I need to change my lie angle.

 

I think this is correct but disagree with Daves comment regarding a 90* lie angle.

 

I'm as sbst as there is with no arc (or as little as possible). I have my eyes over the ball and the putter flat on the ground. Where my hands go is determined by where the handle is which is determined by the lie angle. In my case the hands are well inside the shoulders and both elbows point outwards parallel with the target line.

 

However I have to say I have never seen anyone else putt like this.

as I said 'horrific hand manipulation' :lol: :lol:

 

jokes! whatever gets that little white thing in the hole!

[Millbrook]

I think it depends on your putting style. Swing the putter on an arc, eyes inside the ball just like when we hit a full shot. Straight back straight through, eyes over the ball. like croquette. You can miss mutts either way.

 

Steve

Pure SBST only works if you putter is at a 90* lie angle, the putter will always swing on some sort of arc unless you have horrific hand manipulation.

 

The arc will tend to be a bit more pronounced the further you stand from the ball, its just physics really depending on the lie angle of your setup

It may be how far your hands are from the ball relative to your shoulders regarding the arc. Pelz discovered this but no one else talks about it. you can be closer or farther from the ball but if your hands are outside your shoulders then you will have a big arc. if your hands fall under your shoulders small arc. if your hands are inside your shoulders very small arc and closer to sbst. as you move your hands in that far I need to change my lie angle.

 

I think this is correct but disagree with Daves comment regarding a 90* lie angle.

 

I'm as sbst as there is with no arc (or as little as possible). I have my eyes over the ball and the putter flat on the ground. Where my hands go is determined by where the handle is which is determined by the lie angle. In my case the hands are well inside the shoulders and both elbows point outwards parallel with the target line.

 

However I have to say I have never seen anyone else putt like this.

as I said 'horrific hand manipulation' :lol: :lol:

 

jokes! whatever gets that little white thing in the hole!

 

I can take a joke even from a Palace fan but for clarity for other readers it isn't a hand stroke but a shoulder rock

[Dave D]

 

as I said 'horrific hand manipulation' :lol: :lol:

 

jokes! whatever gets that little white thing in the hole!

 

I can take a joke even from a Palace fan but for clarity for other readers it isn't a hand stroke but a shoulder rock

:D

[naval2006]

I've seen very good putters with eyes either over the ball or inside the ball. I think this is a pretty personal take. At present the two best putters I play with both have their eyes slightly inside the ball.

[harolease]

I usually like park my eyes so Im looking at the inside edge of the ball. I find that I do creep up so my eyes are over the ball line but when I do that i generally also park my head behind the ball so i can swivel my head naturally. I dont think its all black and white , it really depends on the type of breaking putt.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

can anyone comment on the need to have the head tilted down so you're looking straight ahead down at the ball rather than moving your eyes downward if that makes sense.

 

i've struggled seeing the correct line when over the ball and i think part of this is i don't tuck my chin enough. almost have the same setup with head as if i were hitting driver and just using my eyes to look down.

 

i think making an effort to tilt the entire head down has helped get my eyes over/inside of the ball instead of outside the ball if i'm just moving my eyes.

[thepinkbomber]

can anyone comment on the need to have the head tilted down so you're looking straight ahead down at the ball rather than moving your eyes downward if that makes sense.

 

i've struggled seeing the correct line when over the ball and i think part of this is i don't tuck my chin enough. almost have the same setup with head as if i were hitting driver and just using my eyes to look down.

 

i think making an effort to tilt the entire head down has helped get my eyes over/inside of the ball instead of outside the ball if i'm just moving my eyes.

I read an article about head down at setup with eyes flat helping with vision. If I do that it seems like my chin is tucked in. Haven't tested it yet. I to setup with my head similar to driver with my eyes looking down. Curious what other people say too.

[LexHair]

Not an issue if you don't look at the ball when you putt.