The Rise & Future Fall of Lydia Ko (David Leadbetter podcast)

[poppyhillsguy]

A few days ago I listened to "The Clubhouse Podcast with Shane Bacon" with David Leadbetter as his guest. It was a terrific listen and if you have some time in the car, at your desk, or wherever you might be give it a listen.

 

https://soundcloud.c...lubhousepodcast

 

Leadbetter provides a lot of insight into Lydia Ko's parents and their influence on Lydia's life. Leadbetter sees a lot of similarities between Ko's parents and Si Re Pak's and Michelle Wie's parents.

 

Ko's parents have fired her caddie, Leadbetter, made an equipment manufacturer change, and Ko's father is offering swing change advice even though he can' break 100 all within the past few months.

 

After listening to the podcast I have a lot of concern for Ko and her high probability of "burn out" over the next 10 years.

 

Give it a listen.

[lumberman2462]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all too many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

[dpb5031]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

[bscinstnct]

"Pepper put the blowtorch on Leadbetter's approach with Ko.

 

"Tournament time is when you put your work on auto pilot and play golf, not try to reinvent the wheel with a teacher stuck to you like cellophane.

 

"Leadbetter (and he's not alone in this) constantly shows up at the biggest events and is over-involved with the student, not just applying a bit of polish and a pop of confidence," Pepper wrote.

 

"I also found this particular case fascinating because Hogan was Lydia's day-to-day coach, not Leadbetter. But when the biggest events rolled around, Leadbetter was the one present.""

 

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/golf/87716632/top-womens-golfer-lydia-ko-advised-to-take-ownership-of-everything-in-her-life

[lumberman2462]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

I don't doubt for one second that there are thousands of poor souls toiling away in some godforsaken factory making barbies or iPhones that a few short years ago were in training on some National Team for a variety of sports (golf, soccer, gymnastics, swimming) that were good but not great. Whether it be from a lack of talent or a crash and burn...does it really matter?

 

Go to the local grocery store in my hometown and there's a guy that will bag your groceries and carry them out to your car....25 years ago he was All-Stste in two sports and rec'd a full ride to a Division 1 school. He came home in the middle of his 2nd semester....

 

I suppose this happens all over the world....

 

 

 

[Man_O_War]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

interesting.. a very western perspective from you "at what cost"...these parents are often from much tougher, not many opportunity environments with a drive for kids to be better and bring glory to the family...not shame...there is plenty of pressure of course...but it reflects where they are from and available options in life for their kids...even if they now live in the west, their souls aren't in the west. The kids literally can't say NO...

[lumberman2462]

"Pepper put the blowtorch on Leadbetter's approach with Ko.

 

"Tournament time is when you put your work on auto pilot and play golf, not try to reinvent the wheel with a teacher stuck to you like cellophane.

 

"Leadbetter (and he's not alone in this) constantly shows up at the biggest events and is over-involved with the student, not just applying a bit of polish and a pop of confidence," Pepper wrote.

 

"I also found this particular case fascinating because Hogan was Lydia's day-to-day coach, not Leadbetter. But when the biggest events rolled around, Leadbetter was the one present.""

 

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/golf/87716632/top-womens-golfer-lydia-ko-advised-to-take-ownership-of-everything-in-her-life

 

I guess it's surprsing and not surprising. I don't doubt Leadbetter wants his players to do well....but Leadbetter is a Brand as much as a coach.

 

He's shows up on the range at the US Open and he is enhancing his Brand as much as helping his player.

 

I agree, Instinct - if a coach is doing much more than tweaking alignment or ball position on the eve of a Major....the player is in for a long week. Unless the Player is hitting those Roy McAvoy chili pepper shanks across the range (like I'd be doing)

[widow-maker]

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It certainly worked for Tiger. It depends on the kid and what kind of intestinal fortitude they develop on their own as they go through it.

[dpb5031]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

I don't doubt for one second that there are thousands of poor souls toiling away in some godforsaken factory making barbies or iPhones that a few short years ago were in training on some National Team for a variety of sports (golf, soccer, gymnastics, swimming) that were good but not great. Whether it be from a lack of talent or a crash and burn...does it really matter?

 

Go to the local grocery store in my hometown and there's a guy that will bag your groceries and carry them out to your car....25 years ago he was All-Stste in two sports and rec'd a full ride to a Division 1 school. He came home in the middle of his 2nd semester....

 

I suppose this happens all over the world....

 

No doubt it happens everywhere for multitudes of reasons.

 

Since the dawn of the "Tiger Woods" era seems there's been a trend toward intense, singularly focused training of kids starting from a very young age. Hard not to wonder if it does more harm than good, regardless of culture or ethnicity. We see the ones who reach the highest levels of success and many assume that's got to be the right way to raise a successful athlete,student, musician, etc.

 

 

[farmer]

Watch "Trophy Kids" on Netflix. It's not just Asian parents.

[GeorgeHWB]

I don't care how Leadbetter spins it, Ko leaving him increases her likelihood of playing great golf into the future.

[Man_O_War]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

I don't doubt for one second that there are thousands of poor souls toiling away in some godforsaken factory making barbies or iPhones that a few short years ago were in training on some National Team for a variety of sports (golf, soccer, gymnastics, swimming) that were good but not great. Whether it be from a lack of talent or a crash and burn...does it really matter?

 

Go to the local grocery store in my hometown and there's a guy that will bag your groceries and carry them out to your car....25 years ago he was All-Stste in two sports and rec'd a full ride to a Division 1 school. He came home in the middle of his 2nd semester....

 

I suppose this happens all over the world....

 

No doubt it happens everywhere for multitudes of reasons.

 

Since the dawn of the "Tiger Woods" era seems there's been a trend toward intense, singularly focused training of kids starting from a very young age. Hard not to wonder if it does more harm than good, regardless of culture or ethnicity. We see the ones who reach the highest levels of success and many assume that's got to be the right way to raise a successful athlete,student, musician, etc.

 

but Tiger's upbringing was nothing like the way some of the Korean parents are going about it. Tiger was not pushed. He was encouraged. There is a big difference. He was vested in his own path..and it worked.

[straightshot7]

Leadbetter over-complicates and takes a player too far from their natural tendencies in my opinion. Confidence is very fragil and you can't try to fit everyone into a cookie cutter swing without risking the loss of their feel and confidence.

[Golfnut801]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

interesting.. a very western perspective from you "at what cost"...these parents are often from much tougher, not many opportunity environments with a drive for kids to be better and bring glory to the family...not shame...there is plenty of pressure of course...but it reflects where they are from and available options in life for their kids...even if they now live in the west, their souls aren't in the west. The kids literally can't say NO...

Your post is spot on about Asian parents. Growing up as a kid around Asian friends and parents. They are strict and only want the best for their children. Not saying other parents don't. It's just that Asian parent go about in almost a forceful, demanding kind of way.

[dpb5031]

I don't disagree with anything said above. My "western perspective" is one of experience being very immersed in youth sports and especially junior golf over the past decade. My comments regarding "at what cost" are genuinely inquisitive, not judgmental.

 

I understand and believe that these parents, whatever their culture and/or ethnicity, want the best for their kids. My question is "is it effective and does it really work?" The success stories are easy to spot and spur other parents to employ the same approach. We don't hear much about the ones who don't make it and if there's significant collateral damage from pushing kids so intensely toward a singular pursuit from a young age.

 

...and as far as Tiger Woods, he was certainly a highly motivated and VERY unique kid, but I think it's naive to believe he wasn't "pushed."

 

 

[KBong]

A few days ago I listened to "The Clubhouse Podcast with Shane Bacon" with David Leadbetter as his guest.

 

Leadbetter provides a lot of insight into Lydia Ko's parents and their influence on Lydia's life. Leadbetter sees a lot of similarities between Ko's parents and Si Re Pak's and Michelle Wie's parents.

 

Ko's parents have fired her caddie, Leadbetter, made an equipment manufacturer change, and Ko's father is offering swing change advice even though he can' break 100 all within the past few months.

Leadbetter should just ST*U.

 

Maybe Lydia got sick of all the A Swing BS and decided to change her swing on her own with the help of the eyes of another coach from a distance.

How do we not know that she got some advice from her past coach, Guy Wilson, who IMO...is the primary person to help with Ko's great golf skills and mentality.

It would not surprise me that dad was simply following Lydia's instruction to watch out for swing changes, path, routing and swing plane that she acquired from another professional coach's advice.

 

With a scoring average of approx 69.5...if Lydia kept a handicap....her cap would be around +3 or +4....and I'm talking about a men's handicap.....likely a +6 or +7 women's cap.

Does anyone honestly believe Lydia would listen to golf advice from her dad who can't break 100 or likely doesn't even play golf.

How many of you ......who are a low cap player....would listen to a hack at the driving range giving you unsolicited golf advice?....ya....ZERO.

 

Lydia.....through natural growth...... has gotten stronger in the last 3 years as a pro under Leadbetter.

When Ko 1st went to DL....she asked DL to show her how to hit a draw for more distance.

Results speak for themselves.....from 2014 to 2016....Lydia has lost driving distance under DL.....she also lost driving accuracy...not a good combo.

Look at her stats in lpga.com

 

And to hear DL criticize...... that Lydia is not an athlete is a pretty pathetic statement from an old guy to a 19 year old girl.

DL told her she needs to be a gym rat....huh...Lydia is Rolex Ranked #1.

Yup...all that gym work for overweight Inbee Park and Shanshan Fenf have paid huge dividends for these ladies...lmao.

 

DL also had sour grapes when Suzanne Pettersen left him to go to Butch.

[PowderedToastMan]

If Lydia's dad is offering swing advice and can't break 100, he's clearly the next David Leadbetter.

[KBong]

"Pepper put the blowtorch on Leadbetter's approach with Ko.

 

"Leadbetter (and he's not alone in this) constantly shows up at the biggest events and is over-involved with the student, not just applying a bit of polish and a pop of confidence," Pepper wrote.

 

"I also found this particular case fascinating because Hogan was Lydia's day-to-day coach, not Leadbetter. But when the biggest events rolled around, Leadbetter was the one present.""

I attended the KPMG......DL was not there...he was at Oakmont.

Sean Hogan was in Seattle....but most of his time was spent with Hee Young Park.

 

It was so sad watching Lydia go through all the A Swing back swing hinges on the range.

 

DL takes a lot of credit for the past 3 years.

I saw 1st hand Lydia win the 2012 CN CWO as an Am...and then defended in 2013...both times against extremely strong fields....approx 48 or 49 top Rolex ranked LPGA were in attendance both years.

 

IMO....if Lydia had a monkey for a coach the past 3 years....her winning record would still be the same...maybe if not better.

 

For those who know Ko's game...have you noticed her short irons shots...especially wedge shots........... have been getting worse on a YOY basis.....unfortunately....the LPGA does not keep "stroke gains" stats...like the PGA tour.

[KBong]

Did you guys notice at the CME...when Lydia was walking to congrat Ariya for winning the $1M bonus....she hugged Gary Gilchrist...and Gary said...."call me".

 

Hopefully this will be Lydia's next coach.....GG is Ariya's new coach since the beginning of 2016....and also Shanshan's coach....Shanshan has been on fire since winning Olympic bronze.

[ea19]

I don't care how Leadbetter spins it, Ko leaving him increases her likelihood of playing great golf into the future.

 

I tend to agree with that.

 

But regardless - the way he has handled this is classless and tacky. Thank her for the great work, partnership and success. Enjoy the time you had together and move on. I think the same of Haney. These guys could learn something from Butch (Phil M) and Sean (Tiger). If I was another player - I would not want to deal with these guys knowing they would bad mouth me the second it ends - which it will sooner or later.

[Jasonic]

Sour grapes. Leadbetter ruined Wie and the Ko's are smart enough to get out early. All of her numbers are down and her swing with him just didn't look natural. Glad she made the move. Might be tough though this year considering equipment change and caddie as well. I have faith though she will be way better off. If she has a down year he'll take all the credit tho...

[Guia]

She would do well to drop her parents along with Ledbetter. I question why she dropped the coach that got her to the tour, stupid mistake.

[Kenbarlow]

What does leadbetter actually do to his students? What's this crazy swing he wants them all to have?

[farmer]

"Classless and tacky", spot on. Her original coach is in New Zealand. Lead's latest is the A Swing, which is kind of a watered down Furyk move.

[WidespreadPanic]

No David, they just don't want Lydia to be another one of your victims.

[justwellsy]

Interesting.

 

There are some cultural differences that most American (myself included) probably are never going to understand.

 

To be certain - some portion of the success that Michelle and Lydia and other pros have achieved is directly attributable to their parents and upbringing.

 

How much? That's hard to say. Aside from providing the opportunity and support to get their kids to a certain level - there seems to be a Drive/ambition/mentality or something present in the Asian culture that promotes success.

 

But we've seen all to many times that the parents can't seem to let go. And maybe I he kids don't want them to.

 

At the end of the day (or career) most all of these players are going to be set for life - some I'm sure it'll all work out and be fine.

 

Agreed about the cultural differences of high ambitions/expectations, drive, etc.

 

I think an interesting question is, "at what cost?" How many kids don't take so well to this parental pressure and singular focus?

 

We see the ones who achieve the highest levels of success with this type of upbringing. I'm curious how many crash and burn, rebel, have break downs, abandon their parent's ambitions.

 

[DavePelz4]

Golf isn't the only career choice for Lydia at this point...

 

"I say my plan is to retire when I'm 30 so I'm not just going to go to the beach and hang out for the rest of my life," Ko said Wednesday. "There's always a second career that comes along with it and I'm trying to build up towards it and, because I'm playing a sport, psychology links well with it."

[OffTheDole]

But regardless - the way he has handled this is classless and tacky. Thank her for the great work, partnership and success. Enjoy the time you had together and move on. I think the same of Haney. These guys could learn something from Butch (Phil M) and Sean (Tiger). If I was another player - I would not want to deal with these guys knowing they would bad mouth me the second it ends - which it will sooner or later.

 

I said something very similar in another thread and agree 100%. Former NBA coach George Karl apparently went to the Haney and Leadbetter school of burns, and his criticism isn't even limited to players he actually coached!

 

You'd think these guys would be happy with the money and prestige they gain from being the coach of a great player and understand all good things must come to an end; unfortunately their egos won't let them see the bigger picture or act like adults.

[RBImGuy]

Handling parents is easy but shows how many golf coaches that aint so good with people.

if you dont understand the player and the parents, get out of the business.

[Timanator]

Sour grapes. Leadbetter ruined Wie and the Ko's are smart enough to get out early. All of her numbers are down and her swing with him just didn't look natural. Glad she made the move. Might be tough though this year considering equipment change and caddie as well. I have faith though she will be way better off. If she has a down year he'll take all the credit tho...

 

 

This, leadbetter has not been the quality golf instruction as he once was.