Classic Style Short Game

[Psyber]

As a relative newcomer to golf and fairly young guy I never watched much golf before the 2000s. I was watching a classic match today with Arnold Palmer and the one thing I noticed is most of his short game shots were played with irons. Instead of trying to pop the ball up high and spin it he played almost all low shots that hit the green and ran. I really should consider doing this as I get myself into trouble constantly trying to use high lofted wedges around the green. Does anyone still use this technique?

[MonteScheinblum]

Greens weren't as fast and firm as they are today.

 

However, that shot is still used often.

[NCHACK85]

As a relative newcomer to golf and fairly young guy I never watched much golf before the 2000s. I was watching a classic match today with Arnold Palmer and the one thing I noticed is most of his short game shots were played with irons. Instead of trying to pop the ball up high and spin it he played almost all low shots that hit the green and ran. I really should consider doing this as I get myself into trouble constantly trying to use high lofted wedges around the green. Does anyone still use this technique?

 

The All Star golf thing? I watched that before heading to the in laws, these pros nowadays would be pissed putting on those greens. Seemed like every putt hit a spike mark and just bumpy in general.

 

I do normally when I have room to run. Just takes time to figure out how much it will release.

[Cwebb]

The basic premise is choose only enough loft to comfortably land on a smooth "predictable" surface on the green or fringe. Basically you do not want your chip 'bounces' to have any "check and grab" at all,... unless you need it. From there, develop feel for your chips/pitches rolling out like a putt. Some players will even go as low as 5/6 iron for a long chip with a lot of green to work with.

[Psyber]

As a relative newcomer to golf and fairly young guy I never watched much golf before the 2000s. I was watching a classic match today with Arnold Palmer and the one thing I noticed is most of his short game shots were played with irons. Instead of trying to pop the ball up high and spin it he played almost all low shots that hit the green and ran. I really should consider doing this as I get myself into trouble constantly trying to use high lofted wedges around the green. Does anyone still use this technique?

 

The All Star golf thing? I watched that before heading to the in laws, these pros nowadays would be pissed putting on those greens. Seemed like every putt hit a spike mark and just bumpy in general.

 

I do normally when I have room to run. Just takes time to figure out how much it will release.

 

Yup that is exactly it. It seems like this method leaves less room for error. Tossing a ball with a 60 degree leaves little room for error and a high chance of blading it if you get flippy at all.

[bph7]

As a relative newcomer to golf and fairly young guy I never watched much golf before the 2000s. I was watching a classic match today with Arnold Palmer and the one thing I noticed is most of his short game shots were played with irons. Instead of trying to pop the ball up high and spin it he played almost all low shots that hit the green and ran. I really should consider doing this as I get myself into trouble constantly trying to use high lofted wedges around the green. Does anyone still use this technique?

 

The All Star golf thing? I watched that before heading to the in laws, these pros nowadays would be pissed putting on those greens. Seemed like every putt hit a spike mark and just bumpy in general.

 

I do normally when I have room to run. Just takes time to figure out how much it will release.

 

Yup that is exactly it. It seems like this method leaves less room for error. Tossing a ball with a 60 degree leaves little room for error and a high chance of blading it if you get flippy at all.

 

Not if you use the bounce. There is a ridiculous amount of room for error with a 60 or 58 if it has the proper grind and you use the bounce.

[foijord]

If I were sitting next to the green, trying to throw the ball in the hole, I would not throw it just onto the green and have it roll most of the way there. I would throw it a little up in the air and not have it roll as much. This is simply because I could easily visualize that and I'm less concerned about how the ball will move across an undulated green, and green speed is also less of a factor. Because of this, I always use my SW for chipping, and I throw the ball up a little, using trajectory, not spin to have it stop close. This is what gives ME the best results. You have to use the bounce properly, so you never blade or chunk any chips for this method to be the most reliable.

 

It's possible that it's easier for some people to visualize how the ball will roll once on the green, than visualizing the trajectory. If that's the case with you, and if you are worried about chunking or blading chips, perhaps it's better to have it roll more. But for me, the most reliable technique is to throw it most of the way through the air.

[Cwebb]

If the rules allowed you to "tee" your ball on green for a perfect lie with wedge,...would you you choose to do that, or keep rolling the ball with your putter?

 

It's easier for most players, especially those who don't practice a ton, to chip and run...instead of going for loft and stop. Of course there's exceptions, there almost always is

[foijord]

If the rules allowed you to "tee" your ball on green for a perfect lie with wedge,...would you you choose to do that, or keep rolling the ball with your putter?

 

It's easier for most players, especially those who don't practice a ton, to chip and run...instead of going for loft and stop. Of course there's exceptions, there almost always is

 

I would putt it if it were already on the green. But I should have mentioned that the course I play have small, severely undulated greens, which are usually in terrible shape. Most of the time, the chip and run is simply not available. Hmm.... when I really think about it, perhaps that's why I almost never chip and run, it's usually not a viable option. So I do what I know, fly it in there...

[596]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

[TB07]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

[foijord]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

I would never use an iron to bump and run, I don't really see the point of that, and even though I can do it with some consistency, I will not use my 58 and hit chips that checks up. So 54 degree SW it is, too little spin to check up, high enough trajectory to "throw it close" and take break out of the equation. Usually.

[596]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

 

We can disagree, no problem. Yes, you can improve your scoring chances with just one, but will improve the chances more with a choice depending on circumstances. I play and watch golf nearly 6 days a week. Trust me.....bump and run aint dead. I see many more bump and runs then I do lobs/stops.

 

I even played with a guy in a scramble last Tuesday that used his driver from anywhere from 20-80 yards out for a bump and run. It was fun to watch him pitch (?) and run with a driver.

[596]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

I would never use an iron to bump and run, I don't really see the point of that, and even though I can do it with some consistency, I will not use my 58 and hit chips that checks up. So 54 degree SW it is, too little spin to check up, high enough trajectory to "throw it close" and take break out of the equation. Usually.

 

Sounds good to me, as long as it works for you. I can do the same thing with the 56/60* and a small run out. Though this afternoon I hit 3 chips with either a 6 or 7 from about 30 feet to within tap in range to save pars. It all depends.

[foijord]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

 

We can disagree, no problem. Yes, you can improve your scoring chances with just one, but will improve the chances more with a choice depending on circumstances. I play and watch golf nearly 6 days a week. Trust me.....bump and run aint dead. I see many more bump and runs then I do lobs/stops.

My particular chip is not really a lob and stop, it's just that I use the bounce, and come into the ball with a more vertical shaft, so the trajectory naturally gets a little high, but it's usually low spin (unless I have a perfect lie, and it's dry, sometimes I get too much spin). So the feeling is more that of an underhanded throw of the ball. But you might be correct that if you practice bump and runs with irons, it could be the right choice in certain situations, i.e. it will have a larger margin for error. But for me, I prefer to simplify and choose ONE technique that will sort of work in every situation. If I practiced the short game more, I'd probably add the bump and run to the arsenal. But before I spend time on that, I need to fix my long game... :)

[TB07]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

 

We can disagree, no problem. Yes, you can improve your scoring chances with just one, but will improve the chances more with a choice depending on circumstances. I play and watch golf nearly 6 days a week. Trust me.....bump and run aint dead. I see many more bump and runs then I do lobs/stops.

 

I even played with a guy in a scramble last Tuesday that used his driver from anywhere from 20-80 yards out for a bump and run. It was fun to watch him pitch (?) and run with a driver.

 

Do you watch tour players? What percentage would you say use a short/mid iron to chip?

[chas521]

Wasn't it Arnold Palmer that taught Jack Nicklaus to putt from off the green instead of chipping? I could swear that I saw that on the GC Best Tips. JN says that he still uses even today.

[Cwebb]

An advantage to lower trajectory and spinning chip and runs, is that the condition of the green where the ball lands and bounces,...is much less influential on the end result. If we hit a soft spot, hard spot, or "imperfection, the shot is less affected

[596]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

 

We can disagree, no problem. Yes, you can improve your scoring chances with just one, but will improve the chances more with a choice depending on circumstances. I play and watch golf nearly 6 days a week. Trust me.....bump and run aint dead. I see many more bump and runs then I do lobs/stops.

 

I even played with a guy in a scramble last Tuesday that used his driver from anywhere from 20-80 yards out for a bump and run. It was fun to watch him pitch (?) and run with a driver.

 

Do you watch tour players? What percentage would you say use a short/mid iron to chip?

 

And there is where we differ. I don't really care what the pros do or don't do. They are not even close to whom I try to copy. That would be like asking me to play "Like Mike" on a BB court. Ain't gonna happen. I relate more to the low single digit caps and people of my ability and genetics. 99% of the general golfing public cannot copy the ability or genetics of a PGA Tour Pro. You are right....to the 500 Tour Pros in the USA....they don't chip and run.....to the other 99% of the golfers, it is not dead.

[TB07]

There is obviously 2 camps here.

 

1. The chip and run style

2. The lob style

 

The lob/stop can also be a lob/run. Though it won't run the same distance as the chip and run, it is not always a lob and stop.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I use both. Really good players can and will use both methods depending on circumstances. Choosing one over the other 100% of the time and not basing the decision on circumstances is a mistake. You need to learn both to improve your chances of scoring.

 

ie - I can and will use anything from a 6 iron to a 60* for a chip and run. I can also use an 8 iron to a 60* for a lob and stop. They are different shots for different situations. I find that chipping with a lower lofted club (6,7,8) is extremely accurate and as good as a putt, but can't be used over a trap with 15 feet of space on the green, hence the need for the lob.

 

Disagree. I don't think you need both at all to improve your chances of scoring. Bump and run with short/mid irons is rarely used anymore.

 

We can disagree, no problem. Yes, you can improve your scoring chances with just one, but will improve the chances more with a choice depending on circumstances. I play and watch golf nearly 6 days a week. Trust me.....bump and run aint dead. I see many more bump and runs then I do lobs/stops.

 

I even played with a guy in a scramble last Tuesday that used his driver from anywhere from 20-80 yards out for a bump and run. It was fun to watch him pitch (?) and run with a driver.

 

Do you watch tour players? What percentage would you say use a short/mid iron to chip?

 

And there is where we differ. I don't really care what the pros do or don't do. They are not even close to whom I try to copy. That would be like asking me to play "Like Mike" on a BB court. Ain't gonna happen. I relate more to the low single digit caps and people of my ability and genetics. 99% of the general golfing public cannot copy the ability or genetics of a PGA Tour Pro. You are right....to the 500 Tour Pros in the USA....they don't chip and run.....to the other 99% of the golfers, it is not dead.

 

They don't chip and run because they have good technique, not genetics. You don't need genetics to hit a good pitch. And you don't need to copy MJ or the best, just observe all of them including mini tour players. Improve your technique and stop making excuses like genetics.

[Psyber]

I used the chip and run technique almost exclusively today with great results. I only pitched if I needed to get over something and it took a lot of potential disaster shots out of the equation. I think this is a great way to go if you don't have time to practice your short game much.

[NCHACK85]

If I have a lot of green, I'll chip/bump and run. If I have to go over something or need to stop it quickly, I lob.

[sui generis]

It's all about the lie and turf conditions. With firm ground and a little grass under the ball anyone can pitch or chip with any club. However, with thin grass and/or wet ground, using less loft will decrease the chances for a disaster.

[foijord]

I think the short game is where the difference between a tour player and weekend hacker could be... "small". Relatively speaking of course. I'm sure most of you are aware of the "modern" way of chipping, using the bounce. This technique is preferred by many because it is EASIER and more consistent than the old ways (because of a bigger margin of error). And that's why even the tour pros does it. Because it's easy and reliable. It's NOT too difficult for a weekend player, that's why it's so great. The old way, placing the ball back and coming down on it, THAT's hard for a weekend player because it requires a perfect strike, or you'll blade it or chunk it. Using the bounce and hitting it higher, you can hit the ground 2 inches behind the ball and still no disaster.

 

But of course, taking less loft and still using the bounce could be a very viable strategy as well.

[foijord]

It's all about the lie and turf conditions. With firm ground and a little grass under the ball anyone can pitch or chip with any club. However, with thin grass and/or wet ground, using less loft will decrease the chances for a disaster.

 

Thin grass and wet ground, not a great situation, especially if you have a short chip, so your club moves slowly and is easily slowed down by hitting the ground in front of the ball. Margin of error is very small no matter what technique you're using so I agree that reducing the potential for disaster is worth considering. I'd say in a situation like that, with a short chip, I'd pull out the putter, so yeah, definitely taking less loft! :)