Shorten Clubs 1/4 inch and Increase Grip Size?

[RickAstley]

I bought some shafts last year (PX 6.5) that were +1/4 from standard, and didn't have them trimmed up at the time because the grips were still usable and I thought it would be a good experiment. I hit the ball ok, but lost some consistency and typically set up to the ball with the ball out on the toe instead of in the center. Additionally, the grips are standard. I've hit some clubs with the midsize and I like the way they feel in my hands. My question is, if I take the 1/4 off the butt of the shaft and at the same time make the switch to the midsize grip.. will those offset each other and leave swing weight unaffected? I've been searching around and reading a lot about swing weight, but I can't seem to piece together the information in my head. Irons are at D2 right now. I don't want them to get lighter, and may even entertain the idea of some lead tape to increase the weight. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Smokey227]

No, both shortening the shaft length and adding weight to the butt end of the club decrease swing weight. I personally ignore the effects of grip changes on swing weight and would just assume I was going to lose 1.5 SW points. I would hit them and see if you notice a difference. If so, nothing a little lead tape can't fix.

[RickAstley]

Oh I see what you mean, I was thinking the extra weight from the grip would counter act the lost weight from the shaft trim, but I completely ignored the effect of shortening the club.. Thanks for pointing that out. Seems like I would have to add a lot of lead tape to get back to D2, then even more to move up higher (if I wanted to in the future). Is there a point where tape is too much and it would be better to pull the heads off and use tip weights?

[Smokey227]

It will only take Approximately 3 grams to get back the 1.5 sw point. You may not even notice the difference.

 

If you hate the look of lead tape you can pull the heads and add tip weights or use powder and cork down the shaft. But that would be the only reason. And if you decide that you are going to add tip weights, I would do it before having the shafts trimned as they will slightly affect your length.

[apprenti23]

3 points for midsize grips and prob 1-1.5 for length so you're looking at about 4 points or more.

[RickAstley]

3 points for midsize grips and prob 1-1.5 for length so you're looking at about 4 points or more.

 

3 points for midsize grips?!? My oh my, I don't think I want that much movement.

[nbg352]

3 points for midsize grips and prob 1-1.5 for length so you're looking at about 4 points or more.

 

3 points for midsize grips?!? My oh my, I don't think I want that much movement.

Most people don't even notice the change.

Not to mention that swing weight is an archaic measurement.

[RickAstley]

It will only take Approximately 3 grams to get back the 1.5 sw point. You may not even notice the difference.

 

If you hate the look of lead tape you can pull the heads and add tip weights or use powder and cork down the shaft. But that would be the only reason. And if you decide that you are going to add tip weights, I would do it before having the shafts trimned as they will slightly affect your length.

 

I'd rather not pull the heads. I don't mind the look of lead tape on the back, and it seems like the easier solution.

[RickAstley]

 

Most people don't even notice the change.

Not to mention that swing weight is an archaic measurement.

 

That's fair. I've read a lot of conflicting opinion on whether or not grips affect swing weight. And I don't have any argument against it being archaic, but it logically makes sense to me so I don't fight it.

[Nessism]

I personally ignore the effects of grip changes on swing weight and would just assume I was going to lose 1.5 SW points. I would hit them and see if you notice a difference. If so, nothing a little lead tape can't fix.

 

I agree with Smokey. Shorten the clubs and then reswingweight to get the clubs back to D2. Use a split 50 gram grip during swingweighting. After you are done then install the grips of your choice and don't worry about swingweight changes. Grip side weight changes bring out the limitations of the swingweight methodology. We need to be smart about what matters and what doesn't.

[RickAstley]

I personally ignore the effects of grip changes on swing weight and would just assume I was going to lose 1.5 SW points. I would hit them and see if you notice a difference. If so, nothing a little lead tape can't fix.

 

I agree with Smokey. Shorten the clubs and then reswingweight to get the clubs back to D2. Use a split 50 gram grip during swingweighting. After you are done then install the grips of your choice and don't worry about swingweight changes. Grip side weight changes bring out the limitations of the swingweight methodology. We need to be smart about what matters and what doesn't.

 

Thanks for the input. I don't have a swingweight scale personally, so it'll have to be rough estimates to get me about back to where I was pre shortening. I thought I remembered something about setting them off the edge of a table and getting the balance points back to the same progression, but I'll have to do a little more research on it.

[apprenti23]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice... ?

 

This forum is turning into something else!

[Nessism]

I personally ignore the effects of grip changes on swing weight and would just assume I was going to lose 1.5 SW points. I would hit them and see if you notice a difference. If so, nothing a little lead tape can't fix.

 

I agree with Smokey. Shorten the clubs and then reswingweight to get the clubs back to D2. Use a split 50 gram grip during swingweighting. After you are done then install the grips of your choice and don't worry about swingweight changes. Grip side weight changes bring out the limitations of the swingweight methodology. We need to be smart about what matters and what doesn't.

 

Thanks for the input. I don't have a swingweight scale personally, so it'll have to be rough estimates to get me about back to where I was pre shortening. I thought I remembered something about setting them off the edge of a table and getting the balance points back to the same progression, but I'll have to do a little more research on it.

 

You can calculate swingweight but the required accuracy of your measurement methods makes it somewhat impractical. For example, you have to be able to measure the balance point length to within 1/2 mm and that's tough to do without an expensive ruler (scale) or some sort. I've actually been down that road before and it took a LOT of time to be sure the numbers were accurate, plus I've got access to calibrated measuring equipment via my work. If you have such access you may want to give it a go but it will take a lot of time if you want accurate results.

[Hubijerk]

Also bear in mind that where you add the lead tape to can alter the swing weight and feel.... 3g of lead tape to say, the hosel will affect the club differently than 3g on the toe... The farther the weight is from the shaft line th ebigger impact it has. It makes more of a difference in the Driver/woods because the distance from the shaft line is greater. I add lead tape to the toe usually on my woods or hybrids, mainly because I have to add less to get the feel right...

 

It's not an exact science, mess around with them, cut the shafts, re- grip them, then weight the 6,7, and 8 differently (like D2, D3, D4) and see what feels and swings better, then lead them all up the same way. Forego the tip weights for the lead tape, it looks cool and lead causes cancer, and any man willing to risk death for the sake of his golf game is a man not to be trifled with on the course... Plus it's easy to change and adjust if needed... Just wash you're hands and don't lick it.

[RickAstley]

Also bear in mind that where you add the lead tape to can alter the swing weight and feel.... 3g of lead tape to say, the hosel will affect the club differently than 3g on the toe... The farther the weight is from the shaft line th ebigger impact it has. It makes more of a difference in the Driver/woods because the distance from the shaft line is greater. I add lead tape to the toe usually on my woods or hybrids, mainly because I have to add less to get the feel right...

 

It's not an exact science, mess around with them, cut the shafts, re- grip them, then weight the 6,7, and 8 differently (like D2, D3, D4) and see what feels and swings better, then lead them all up the same way. Forego the tip weights for the lead tape, it looks cool and lead causes cancer, and any man willing to risk death for the sake of his golf game is a man not to be trifled with on the course... Plus it's easy to change and adjust if needed... Just wash you're hands and don't lick it.

Thanks for all the good advice. The bolded has me :cheesy:

[nbg352]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice...

 

This forum is turning into something else!

You should really check your facts before making another contributor into your personal joke.

And no, I will not do your research for you.......

You can go ahead and poke fun at that, too.

[apprenti23]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice... ��

 

This forum is turning into something else!

You should really check your facts before making another contributor into your personal joke.

And no, I will not do your research for you.......

You can go ahead and poke fun at that, too.

 

Your facts must be alternative... http://pluggedingolf.com/can-swing-weight-affect-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/

[Smokey227]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice... ��

 

This forum is turning into something else!

You should really check your facts before making another contributor into your personal joke.

And no, I will not do your research for you.......

You can go ahead and poke fun at that, too.

 

Your facts must be alternative... http://pluggedingolf.com/can-swing-weight-affect-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/

 

The article you linked clearly states that the swingweight changes done in their test were all a direct result of adding weight to the club head. I do not believe that anyone was meaning to argue the fact that a normal golfer would not notice a 3 sw point change due to either length or club head weight. The argument made was that adding weight to the butt end of the club such as added weight from a grip only "tricks" the sw scale and does not truly change the feel of the heft of the club.

[nbg352]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice... ��

 

This forum is turning into something else!

You should really check your facts before making another contributor into your personal joke.

And no, I will not do your research for you.......

You can go ahead and poke fun at that, too.

 

Your facts must be alternative... http://pluggedingolf.com/can-swing-weight-affect-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/

Don't stop there, educate yourself, by looking for facts from the other side of this controversial topic.

[apprenti23]

Swing weight is archaic? Wow that's a new one. Nobody notices three points??? This is hilarious... go ahead and add three points with lead tape to any club in the bag and any golfer will feel a difference. Might as well make them two degrees up or something while you're at it too! Most golfers won't notice... ��

 

This forum is turning into something else!

You should really check your facts before making another contributor into your personal joke.

And no, I will not do your research for you.......

You can go ahead and poke fun at that, too.

 

Your facts must be alternative... http://pluggedingolf.com/can-swing-weight-affect-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/

Don't stop there, educate yourself, by looking for facts from the other side of this controversial topic.

 

Enlighten me

[Howard_Jones]

I bought some shafts last year (PX 6.5) that were +1/4 from standard, and didn't have them trimmed up at the time because the grips were still usable and I thought it would be a good experiment. I hit the ball ok, but lost some consistency and typically set up to the ball with the ball out on the toe instead of in the center. Additionally, the grips are standard. I've hit some clubs with the midsize and I like the way they feel in my hands. My question is, if I take the 1/4 off the butt of the shaft and at the same time make the switch to the midsize grip.. will those offset each other and leave swing weight unaffected? I've been searching around and reading a lot about swing weight, but I can't seem to piece together the information in my head. Irons are at D2 right now. I don't want them to get lighter, and may even entertain the idea of some lead tape to increase the weight. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

D2 is just a number, dont get hung up in numbers here, its all about how YOU feel the balance of the club, and if you are in doubt about how this will turn out, you can do a easy test and simulate it all before you jump into it.

 

Take some spacer shims (about 10 grams) and a tee, put those spacers on the tee and plug it into the went hole of the grip end.

10 grams is about the difference between a standard and a mid size grip, but you can take a look on the manufacturers web page to make sure.

 

Now measure 0.25 down on your grips, and set a mark there. You can use a piece of tape to cover the upper 0.25 like it was chopped off and lower your grip below that tape.

 

Now test that club. feel of head weight and balance will be equal to where you are going, and then you will know for sure what changes that will make for you if any at all. If you find head weight to be a bit light, just add a strip or two of lead tape and try again until its good, and never mind SW scales or values, they dont feel it like you do, and they cant tell what value that club who feels right for you should have, only your own experience and feel matters here, not numbers.

[RickAstley]

This is good advice thanks. I just did a little more research into what grip is currently on my clubs - REL ACE standard (52 g). The grips I want to add are the Winn DriTac Midsize (49g). So it appears that won't have a big impact (like others have suggested) and now I'll just have to figure out how the length will affect it (which sounds like I'll need 3g of lead on the clubhead).

[Howard_Jones]

This is good advice thanks. I just did a little more research into what grip is currently on my clubs - REL ACE standard (52 g). The grips I want to add are the Winn DriTac Midsize (49g). So it appears that won't have a big impact (like others have suggested) and now I'll just have to figure out how the length will affect it (which sounds like I'll need 3g of lead on the clubhead).

 

Be aware of that grips has a tolerance plus minus on weight, but whats "in your hand" is nothing you will notice unless we talk large numbers, and most players dont feel any difference when going plus 10 grams on grip weight.

 

But...you still seems to be hung up in the idea of a SW value of D2, but then i would like to tell you that the SW scale was never able to do that job right, so today when we also have access to digital MOI match scales, we have found the correction factor depending on club length difference

 

If your hole set is with 4/8" difference between clubs like normal, and they are all dead on the value D2 and you think thats how it really should be, i have to disappoint you because they are not even close to being "D2 as a set

 

Whats your favorite iron? for many thats the #8 iron, so lets assume it was for you too, and you simply love that #8 iron who measure D2 dead on.

NON of the other clubs in your set should be D2 to give you the same feel of head weight or resistance to match that #8 iron, they must be 2/3 of a SW point as progression both ways from that #8 iron to really feel and have the same resistance during release, so here is how they should be.

 

PW- D3 (if played 0.25 shorter than your 9 or D3 1/3 if its 0.5" shorter )

#9 - D2 2/3

#8 - D2

#7 - D1 1/3

#6 - D0 2/3

#5 - D0

#4 - C9 1/3

#3 - C8 2/3

 

 

So....DONT trace a SW value like you do, unless you understand this and how a SW scale really works, its errors and limitations, and what SW value that REALLY works the best for you, and for what iron # we are talking that value.

[Stuart_G]

Enlighten me

 

These may help.

 

history:

https://www.tutelman...gn/swingwt1.php

 

influence of various parts (including grip weight)

https://www.tutelman...gn/swingwt3.php

[jedc]

I would try a standard size grip with the middle and bottom portion built up with a few layers before going all the way midsize. That may help with SW as well, but just a suggestion.

[Howard_Jones]

I would try a standard size grip with the middle and bottom portion built up with a few layers before going all the way midsize. That may help with SW as well, but just a suggestion.

 

Sorry but i will have to correct you on that suggestion

A MID size grip is average plus 10 grams, and if we use Golf standard BU tape it takes 4 layers each of 2 grams to get to MID size so we talk a difference of 2 grams, and grip weight DONT make any difference to actual SW value, it only tricks the SW scale to believe we went lighter head side but we did not.

 

TRUE SW value is measured with a 50-52 gram grip (GP New decade with only 47.5 is butt heavy so they also measure "True")

The other option to measure it correct is without grips and SUb 9 SW points from the reading so if target is D2, its E1 without grip.