So, that ball didn't move?

[Augster]

So the ball on 13 didn't move? Or wasn't he deemed to have moved it? On my 61 inch TV it sure looked like it moved.

 

CBS sure dropped the story line quickly.

 

Does this get an asterisk?

 

 

[LeoLeo99]

Did it change position?

[Yepyukon]

They dropped the story line because they said Augusta reviewed it and deemed it a non-penalty.

[Hot Rod 71]

Let's see how many thread we can get going on this topic and beat it into the ground.

[Augster]

It settled down in the pine straw after he let go of the stick that was holding it "up". Not much movement downward. Nearly the same amount they dinged Tiger with a few years ago.

 

When Justin Rose watches that video, hopefully he's cool about not getting to come to Augusta for the rest of his life.

 

Sergio really should have cleared all that out before he dropped.

[bladehunter]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

[Augster]

It isn't the first time the Masters committee has bent the rules and likely won't be the last.

 

I'm really surprised, after the Lexi thing, they even allow CBS to super zoom in on balls in play. It's just asking for trouble. I was so sure they'd have Sergio review the video after 18 and before signing the cards, and let him make the determination. Get Rose in on it also. Show them the video and say "did it move?" I guess none of that happened.

 

Maybe they'll give Rose an honorary green jacket and let him come to the dinners also.

[larrybud]

So the ball on 13 didn't move?

 

No. Any other questions?

[bladehunter]

lol... i have a 4k TV and recorded it all and i have yet to see it move.... amd the ball is exactly 5 inches across on my screen

[TheLarch]

Another point of view regarding this topic.

[wetdogsmell]

I think that every major BEFORE HD tv coverage should have an asterisk. :telephone:

[LeoLeo99]

It isn't the first time the Masters committee has bent the rules and likely won't be the last.

 

I'm really surprised, after the Lexi thing, they even allow CBS to super zoom in on balls in play. It's just asking for trouble. I was so sure they'd have Sergio review the video after 18 and before signing the cards, and let him make the determination. Get Rose in on it also. Show them the video and say "did it move?" I guess none of that happened.

 

Maybe they'll give Rose an honorary green jacket and let him come to the dinners also.

 

The Masters committee decided they're not going to taint their tournament with TV call in crap over some tickytack issue..

[Augster]

It couldn't have been a call in. The angle they used was not broadcast.

 

It had to be someone on site that had access to that video. It couldn't have been a call-in. The video of him donkey-ing with the stick was not broadcast until later. From a different angle that made the broadcast.

 

So don't blame it on "call-ins."

[Vindog]

I honestly did not see it move

[HighSpeedScene]

Likely the first application that I know of in major golf of the "tiger decision" where a ball cannot be deemed to have changed position using only zoom or slow mo.

 

Right call, good use of the rules

[HighSpeedScene]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

[shortstop20]

1) It did move a fractional amount, or at least oscillate slightly.

 

2) It had no effect on the outcome

 

3) I don't care

[golfdad907]

Yay, another LayZBoy official :busted_cop:

[Golfnuck]

CBS guys figured out very quickly that if they continued to replay the video there would be a high likelihood that they would not be broadcasting the next Masters.

 

Only the guys at Augusta can run a tournament properly !!!!

[Augster]

HSS, you are correct the Masters committee used Decision 18/4 correctly.

 

Well done.

[bladehunter]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

 

 

lol.. im quite calm..But i just think this yet again airs out the hypocrisy of the rules system...

 

 

 

we have an earlier ruling where we use Zoom to help in a determination ... and here we have one where you say it cant be used... Now i understand your argument for the difference.. BUT i contest that you could not say definetively with Lexi unless using zoom .. its a " i know it , but cant prove it " without zoom.... here we have same ..except they didnt air it until after they made their minds up ( which should be the rule not the exception) .... suppose they decide to slap 2 on Sergio..... do you not think 2 majors outcomes changed in 2 weeks would be a travesty ( as far as sport is concerned)? At best a huge black eye for the sport...

 

I still contest that things like marking the ball, or moving around a ball perched precariously like sergios today is running a very high percentage for technically breaking the rules alot of the time.... and always has been .. The difference now is we can "see" it .... for many years these things have gone uncalled mostly..why? nobody sees them ... If rules arent amended to lessen the penalty for certain interactions with the ball this sort of thing will be common place... and that is BAD for the games image...

 

I read someones post in another thread here that said something to the effect of " lets dont let the pro game ruin the rest of golf"...... pretty funny in a way.... I translate that to mean " dont let the pro game shed a light on the truth about our rules past ability to be bent and/or inability to be followed"... i mean Sergio didnt intend to move the ball.. Nor did he gain an advantage by its oscillation .. But it could have cost him the masters.... The USGA cannot get off their Duffs fast enough to make this revision ..thats the one sure thing in all this argument ...Maybe Mike Davis needs another Jack pep-talk ? lol

[Golfnuck]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

 

 

lol.. im quite calm..But i just think this yet again airs out the hypocrisy of the rules system...

 

 

 

we have an earlier ruling where we use Zoom to help in a determination ... and here we have one where you say it cant be used... Now i understand your argument for the difference.. BUT i contest that you could not say definetively with Lexi unless using zoom .. its a " i know it , but cant prove it " without zoom.... here we have same ..except they didnt air it until after they made their minds up ( which should be the rule not the exception) .... suppose they decide to slap 2 on Sergio..... do you not think 2 majors outcomes changed in 2 weeks would be a travesty ( as far as sport is concerned)? At best a huge black eye for the sport...

 

I still contest that things like marking the ball, or moving around a ball perched precariously like sergios today is running a very high percentage for technically breaking the rules alot of the time.... and always has been .. The difference now is we can "see" it .... for many years these things have gone uncalled mostly..why? nobody sees them ... If rules arent amended to lessen the penalty for certain interactions with the ball this sort of thing will be common place... and that is BAD for the games image...

 

I read someones post in another thread here that said something to the effect of " lets dont let the pro game ruin the rest of golf"...... pretty funny in a way.... I translate that to mean " dont let the pro game shed a light on the truth about our rules past ability to be bent and/or inability to be followed"... i mean Sergio didnt intend to move the ball.. Nor did he gain an advantage by its oscillation .. But it could have cost him the masters.... The USGA cannot get off their Duffs fast enough to make this revision ..thats the one sure thing in all this argument ...Maybe Mike Davis needs another Jack pep-talk ? lol

 

The professional tours like PGA and LPGA do not need to wait for the USGA to change the Rules of Golf.

 

They can simply solve it themselves by enacting a local rule.

[Augster]

The difference why 18/4 can be used for Sergio, and not for Lexi, is that Lexi's ball movement SHOULD have been easily seen by her. No zoom or electronics needed. She missed her mark by at least an inch.

 

There's no way Sergio could have seen more than an oscillation. IF the ball moved, it only rotated maybe a dimple and may have sunk downward a dimple. Not easily discernible even with zoomed means as the camera itself wasn't steady. Certainly not easily discernible to Sergio. It's not like the logo rotated over an inch.

 

No need for new rules. 18/4 is already on the books.

 

Please don't start with the tired "advantage gained" stuff for penalties. There is rarely any advantage gained in any of the penalties in golf, but they are penalties just the same. A penalty, by definition, is a punishment for wrongdoing. It is the rules telling you, "Don't do that". The word penalty doesn't contemplate any advantage gained. It's a punishment for acting outside the rules.

 

 

[Sawgrass]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

 

 

lol.. im quite calm..But i just think this yet again airs out the hypocrisy of the rules system...

 

 

 

we have an earlier ruling where we use Zoom to help in a determination ... and here we have one where you say it cant be used... Now i understand your argument for the difference.. BUT i contest that you could not say definetively with Lexi unless using zoom .. its a " i know it , but cant prove it " without zoom.... here we have same ..except they didnt air it until after they made their minds up ( which should be the rule not the exception) .... suppose they decide to slap 2 on Sergio..... do you not think 2 majors outcomes changed in 2 weeks would be a travesty ( as far as sport is concerned)? At best a huge black eye for the sport...

 

I still contest that things like marking the ball, or moving around a ball perched precariously like sergios today is running a very high percentage for technically breaking the rules alot of the time.... and always has been .. The difference now is we can "see" it .... for many years these things have gone uncalled mostly..why? nobody sees them ... If rules arent amended to lessen the penalty for certain interactions with the ball this sort of thing will be common place... and that is BAD for the games image...

 

I read someones post in another thread here that said something to the effect of " lets dont let the pro game ruin the rest of golf"...... pretty funny in a way.... I translate that to mean " dont let the pro game shed a light on the truth about our rules past ability to be bent and/or inability to be followed"... i mean Sergio didnt intend to move the ball.. Nor did he gain an advantage by its oscillation .. But it could have cost him the masters.... The USGA cannot get off their Duffs fast enough to make this revision ..thats the one sure thing in all this argument ...Maybe Mike Davis needs another Jack pep-talk ? lol

 

The professional tours like PGA and LPGA do not need to wait for the USGA to change the Rules of Golf.

 

They can simply solve it themselves by enacting a local rule.

If you wish to play within the official Rules of Golf, you are only permitted to enact Local Rules which are deemed acceptable by the USGA and R&A. Of course, any business can decide to make up its own Rules, but the major tours and even the minor tours seem to respect the Ruling Bodies judgement and guidance. So depending on exactly what "Local Rule" you have in mind, it may not be as simple as you say.

 

33-8. Local Rules

 

a. Policy

 

The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I.

b. Waiving or Modifying a Rule

 

A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorized by the USGA.

[bladehunter]

The difference why 18/4 can be used for Sergio, and not for Lexi, is that Lexi's ball movement SHOULD have been easily seen by her. No zoom or electronics needed. She missed her mark by at least an inch.

 

There's no way Sergio could have seen more than an oscillation. IF the ball moved, it only rotated maybe a dimple and may have sunk downward a dimple. Not easily discernible even with zoomed means as the camera itself wasn't steady. Certainly not easily discernible to Sergio. It's not like the logo rotated over an inch.

 

No need for new rules. 18/4 is already on the books.

 

Please don't start with the tired "advantage gained" stuff for penalties. There is rarely any advantage gained in any of the penalties in golf, but they are penalties just the same. A penalty, by definition, is a punishment for wrongdoing. It is the rules telling you, "Don't do that". The word penalty doesn't contemplate any advantage gained. It's a punishment for acting outside the rules.

 

 

Isn't that the purpose of most rules ? To keep someone from gaining an advantage ? If the rule isn't trying to kee that oit then what ? " because I said so ". Lol ? And to that point those are the rules I would like to see changed. The ones who aren't preventing any advantage but are just there to protect the field before cameras were around etc. now that everything is seen in great detail I feel like Thise rules are overly penal in most instances.

[Warrick]

So the ball on 13 didn't move? Or wasn't he deemed to have moved it? On my 61 inch TV it sure looked like it moved.

 

CBS sure dropped the story line quickly.

 

Does this get an asterisk?

 

You get an asterisk....

 

go away!

[Vindog]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

 

 

lol.. im quite calm..But i just think this yet again airs out the hypocrisy of the rules system...

 

 

 

we have an earlier ruling where we use Zoom to help in a determination ... and here we have one where you say it cant be used... Now i understand your argument for the difference.. BUT i contest that you could not say definetively with Lexi unless using zoom .. its a " i know it , but cant prove it " without zoom.... here we have same ..except they didnt air it until after they made their minds up ( which should be the rule not the exception) .... suppose they decide to slap 2 on Sergio..... do you not think 2 majors outcomes changed in 2 weeks would be a travesty ( as far as sport is concerned)? At best a huge black eye for the sport...

 

I still contest that things like marking the ball, or moving around a ball perched precariously like sergios today is running a very high percentage for technically breaking the rules alot of the time.... and always has been .. The difference now is we can "see" it .... for many years these things have gone uncalled mostly..why? nobody sees them ... If rules arent amended to lessen the penalty for certain interactions with the ball this sort of thing will be common place... and that is BAD for the games image...

 

I read someones post in another thread here that said something to the effect of " lets dont let the pro game ruin the rest of golf"...... pretty funny in a way.... I translate that to mean " dont let the pro game shed a light on the truth about our rules past ability to be bent and/or inability to be followed"... i mean Sergio didnt intend to move the ball.. Nor did he gain an advantage by its oscillation .. But it could have cost him the masters.... The USGA cannot get off their Duffs fast enough to make this revision ..thats the one sure thing in all this argument ...Maybe Mike Davis needs another Jack pep-talk ? lol

 

The professional tours like PGA and LPGA do not need to wait for the USGA to change the Rules of Golf.

 

They can simply solve it themselves by enacting a local rule.

 

They can't just make up a local rule and enforce it

[Golfnuck]

I knew .....knew ...knew there would be a thread here on this.... see Rules guys... the cat IS out of the bag... we will rarely see a tournament now where somoeone isnt accused of cheating .. why ? some rules cannot be adhered to if watched through the eyes of HD zoom and DVR....

 

so glad the augusta comittee was on the job though . unlike other events.. they reviewed it and shut the call in folks down asap... their tournament wasnt to be ruined by some clown at home.. good job Masters Committee !!

 

BH, you're all over the place here. There wouldn't have been any call in because it wasn't broadcast at that angle until they knew it was already being reviewed.

 

Calm down - the rules were followed and good thing the ruling bodies are willing to be flexible. Before 1/1/16, they would have had no choice to but to slap two on him.

 

Breathe...

 

Edit: typo

 

 

lol.. im quite calm..But i just think this yet again airs out the hypocrisy of the rules system...

 

 

 

we have an earlier ruling where we use Zoom to help in a determination ... and here we have one where you say it cant be used... Now i understand your argument for the difference.. BUT i contest that you could not say definetively with Lexi unless using zoom .. its a " i know it , but cant prove it " without zoom.... here we have same ..except they didnt air it until after they made their minds up ( which should be the rule not the exception) .... suppose they decide to slap 2 on Sergio..... do you not think 2 majors outcomes changed in 2 weeks would be a travesty ( as far as sport is concerned)? At best a huge black eye for the sport...

 

I still contest that things like marking the ball, or moving around a ball perched precariously like sergios today is running a very high percentage for technically breaking the rules alot of the time.... and always has been .. The difference now is we can "see" it .... for many years these things have gone uncalled mostly..why? nobody sees them ... If rules arent amended to lessen the penalty for certain interactions with the ball this sort of thing will be common place... and that is BAD for the games image...

 

I read someones post in another thread here that said something to the effect of " lets dont let the pro game ruin the rest of golf"...... pretty funny in a way.... I translate that to mean " dont let the pro game shed a light on the truth about our rules past ability to be bent and/or inability to be followed"... i mean Sergio didnt intend to move the ball.. Nor did he gain an advantage by its oscillation .. But it could have cost him the masters.... The USGA cannot get off their Duffs fast enough to make this revision ..thats the one sure thing in all this argument ...Maybe Mike Davis needs another Jack pep-talk ? lol

 

The professional tours like PGA and LPGA do not need to wait for the USGA to change the Rules of Golf.

 

They can simply solve it themselves by enacting a local rule.

If you wish to play within the official Rules of Golf, you are only permitted to enact Local Rules which are deemed acceptable by the USGA and R&A. Of course, any business can decide to make up its own Rules, but the major tours and even the minor tours seem to respect the Ruling Bodies judgement and guidance. So depending on exactly what "Local Rule" you have in mind, it may not be as simple as you say.

 

33-8. Local Rules

 

a. Policy

 

 

The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I.

b. Waiving or Modifying a Rule

 

 

A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorized by the USGA.

 

Yes but as you stated 1) the Professional Tours can unilaterally decide that they will run by their own rules or 2) the USGA agrees with them and allows for the local rules.

 

In my opinion the USGA does not want to see this kind of controversy replayed over and over again.

 

I also do not believe that if the Professional Tours wanted to enact a local rule the USGA would want to engage in a public fight over it.

 

My opinion is that the USGA needs the Professional Tours as much as the Professional Tours want to use the Rules of Golf and get the blessing of the USGA for the local rules.

[CactusGolf]

Wasn't there an Augusta rules official with Sergio at the time?

[QuickFeet]

The ball didn't move, the pine needle that was roughly across the equator of the ball move up slightly.