So, that ball didn't move?

[Golfnuck]

Wasn't there an Augusta rules official with Sergio at the time?

 

Yes.

 

He pointed out where his ball was.

 

After the drop Sergio called him over to make sure the ball is properly in play.

[QMany]

There is zero doubt in my mind that ball moved, the logo pitches down/forward.

 

Video on Twitter

 

And it appears Sergio may have noticed it too because he removes his hand and stands up/jumps back immediately after it happened.

[TheCityGame]

[llewol007]

does it even matter now?

[Golfnuck]

What I thought was really interesting was how fast the commentators got off the subject.

 

It was as though one of the higher ups was screaming into their earpiece to get off the subject.

 

Also they NEVER referred back to it again.

 

Maybe its because Augusta and the Masters is different or maybe this is a sign of things to come.

[nix]

nobody can say with even the smallest amount of certainty that it moved. Case closed.

 

nobody can say with even the smallest amount of certainty that it moved. Case closed.

 

What I thought was really interesting was how fast the commentators got off the subject.

 

It was as though one of the higher ups was screaming into their earpiece to get off the subject.

 

Also they NEVER referred back to it again.

 

Maybe its because Augusta and the Masters is different or maybe this is a sign of things to come.

 

That's because the broadcast is supposed to be entertaining and discussing this non-issue is nowhere near as entertaining as what was actually going on in terms of golf.

[SHIVAN]

Rules gurus, what is the oscillation rule? If that ball moved, it wasn't more than 1/2 a dimple from it's original location.

[QMany]

That ball moved, no doubt in my mind watching the video.

 

I guess it just comes down to the application of 18/4.

[QMany]

Rules gurus, what is the oscillation rule? If that ball moved, it wasn't more than 1/2 a dimple from it's original location.

 

ROG Decision:

 

18/2

Ball Oscillates During Address

 

Q.In addressing the ball, a player accidentally causes the ball to oscillate, but it returns to its original position. Has the ball "moved"?

A.No.

[SHIVAN]

Rules gurus, what is the oscillation rule? If that ball moved, it wasn't more than 1/2 a dimple from it's original location.

 

ROG Decision:

 

18/2

Ball Oscillates During Address

 

Q.In addressing the ball, a player accidentally causes the ball to oscillate, but it returns to its original position. Has the ball "moved"?

A.No.

 

Is there a similar one for other times, when not addressing the ball?

[QMany]

Is there a similar one for other times, when not addressing the ball?

 

I'm not sure. But I don't know that it would matter, as Sergio's ball certainly didn't seem to return to its original position.

[The General]

remember arm chair monday morning narcs, the ball CAN oscillate.

[jay65]

The only asterisk here is for the most boring thread in Wrx history.

 

Best player won, get over that fact.

[QMany]

I'm happy for Sergio, and I'm glad it didn't come down to a penalty to take a Green Jacket away from anyone.

 

But to say that ball didn't move (like they did on CBS coverage) seems disingenuous. If you want to try to argue that it oscillated or isn't subject to a penalty under 18/4, that is a debatable.

[SHIVAN]

I'm not sure. But I don't know that it would matter, as Sergio's ball certainly didn't seem to return to its original position.

 

I'm guessing the only people that mattered already made the call, so none of this discussion "matters" .... :drinks:

[bladehunter]

Just watched the Twitter video. And I still say it didn't move. It may have sunk a mm , that isn't moving on my boko. Nor the rules as fr as I can read

[QMany]

And I still say it didn't move. It may have sunk a mm , that isn't moving on my boko.

In your book, how do you define "move?"

[LeoLeo99]

I'm happy for Sergio, and I'm glad it didn't come down to a penalty to take a Green Jacket away from anyone.

 

But to say that ball didn't move (like they did on CBS coverage) seems disingenuous. If you want to try to argue that it oscillated or isn't subject to a penalty under 18/4, that is a debatable.

 

The argument is that the Masters committee isn't going to have their tournament influenced by TV replay. They not going to huddle around a TV and decide if a penalty is in order for a barely discernible movement. I sure Rose is not lamenting the lack of a penalty, nor does he think he deserved an honorary green jacket.

 

The ones potentially upset about this are the rules geeks. Everyone else is thankful they let the golfers decide who would win.

 

Had this been the US Open.... We'd be talking about the rules officials instead of Sergio.

[nix]

There isn't even a scintilla of evidence it actually moved. There is a significantly higher liklihood that the effects of camera, angle, lenses, distance, camera movement, or any number of things caused it to look like, maybe it possibly moved. I saw no movement.

[dlygrisse]

It isn't the first time the Masters committee has bent the rules and likely won't be the last.

 

I'm really surprised, after the Lexi thing, they even allow CBS to super zoom in on balls in play. It's just asking for trouble. I was so sure they'd have Sergio review the video after 18 and before signing the cards, and let him make the determination. Get Rose in on it also. Show them the video and say "did it move?" I guess none of that happened.

 

Maybe they'll give Rose an honorary green jacket and let him come to the dinners also.

 

I really hope you are being sarcastic.

[Shilgy]

There is zero doubt in my mind that ball moved, the logo pitches down/forward.

 

Video on Twitter

 

And it appears Sergio may have noticed it too because he removes his hand and stands up/jumps back immediately after it happened.

If you look at the piece of pine straw above the ball rather than the one below it is clear the ball did NOT move in this video. The straw at the bottom right of the ball moved up a fraction.

[dlygrisse]

Just watched the Twitter video. And I still say it didn't move. It may have sunk a mm , that isn't moving on my boko. Nor the rules as fr as I can read

 

Right. You don't think that pretty much every single ball that ever laid on grass didn't sink a bit? We are talking about grass, dirt, mud, sand etc. It might be only 1/4 of a mm but every ball sinks or wiggles some before you hit it. The age of Hi-def is ruining sports in my opinion. You can't celebrate anything any more until the replay has been reviewed for 15 minutes. NFL, MLB college B-ball etc. all are worse off than they were before all this replay nonsense.

[Golfnuck]

I am just so impressed with how the Masters is run.

 

Had this been any other major at least one of the reporters would have likely asked Sergio whether he felt the ball moved.

 

I watched Sergio's post tournament conference and not one single question about it.

 

I wonder if the powers at Augusta gave a heads up to the reporters that such a question would result in said reporter begin banned from future Masters.

 

They can and have banned reporters in the past ........ ask Gary McCord (greens smoothed with bikini wax) or Jack Whitaker (referring to the Masters galleries as a "mob scene").

 

You just have to admire that way the Masters is run.

[QMany]

There is zero doubt in my mind that ball moved, the logo pitches down/forward.

 

Video on Twitter

 

And it appears Sergio may have noticed it too because he removes his hand and stands up/jumps back immediately after it happened.

If you look at the piece of pine straw above the ball rather than the one below it is clear the ball did NOT move in this video. The straw at the bottom right of the ball moved up a fraction.

I still see it moving, just a small amount. But that probably goes back to 18/4.

 

18/4

 

Television Evidence Shows Ball at Rest Changed Position But by Amount Not Reasonably Discernible to Naked Eye

 

Q.A player addresses his ball. He observes a slight motion of the ball but believes that it has only oscillated and has not left its original position. He therefore plays the ball as it lies. Later, the Committee becomes aware from television evidence that the ball had in fact left its position and come to rest in another place, although that change of position was such that it was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time of the incident. What is the ruling?

 

A.The ball is deemed not to have moved and therefore there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. The Definition of "Moved" - when a ball "leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place" - does not contemplate movements of the ball that are only discernible through the use of high definition television or any other form of sophisticated technology.

 

When determining whether or not his ball at rest has moved, a player must make that judgment based on all the information readily available to him at the time, so that he can determine whether the ball must be replaced under Rule 18-2 or another applicable Rule. When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology.

 

On the other hand, if the Committee determines, based on all of the evidence it has available, that the ball changed its position by an amount that was reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, the ball is deemed to have moved. As the player did not replace the ball, he incurs a penalty under the applicable Rule and Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place.

 

These principles apply to any review of technological evidence by the Committee, whether before the player makes his next stroke or any time thereafter. These principles also apply in a situation in which the player made no determination whether or not his ball at rest moved (e.g., because he had walked away from his ball after addressing it, was not looking at his ball, or otherwise did not observe any motion of the ball or have any reason to believe that his ball might have moved).

Before determining whether his ball has moved, it is advisable for the player to obtain information from nearby witnesses to the incident and to seek guidance from a referee if one is immediately available. (Revised)

http://www.usga.org/...ml#!decision-18

 

Sergio's actions were odd. Right after the movement, he removed his hand and stood up.

 

That is a really tough call, but I'm glad it didn't come down to penalty strokes.

[Sawgrass]

1) When standing over a ball, it is next to impossible to see if it moved by falling down a minor amount.

2) Calling this a non-issue, as it was called, seems like a perfect example of the correct application of D18/4. (One might say, "The Rules are wise.")

2) IMO Sergio was a bone-head for messing with the pine straw after his drop. It easily could have cost him another penalty stroke, and the tournament.

[QMany]

I am just so impressed with how the Masters is run.

 

Had this been any other major at least one of the reporters would have likely asked Sergio whether he felt the ball moved.

 

I watched Sergio's post tournament conference and not one single question about it.

 

I wonder if the powers at Augusta gave a heads up to the reporters that such a question would result in said reporter begin banned from future Masters.

 

They can and have banned reporters in the past ........ ask Gary McCord (greens smoothed with bikini wax) or Jack Whitaker (referring to the Masters galleries as a "mob scene").

 

You just have to admire that way the Masters is run.

 

You are impressed/admire how a tournament is run because reporters may be banned for asking about the application of the Rules of Golf!?!

[LeoLeo99]

I am just so impressed with how the Masters is run.

 

Had this been any other major at least one of the reporters would have likely asked Sergio whether he felt the ball moved.

 

I watched Sergio's post tournament conference and not one single question about it.

 

I wonder if the powers at Augusta gave a heads up to the reporters that such a question would result in said reporter begin banned from future Masters.

 

They can and have banned reporters in the past ........ ask Gary McCord (greens smoothed with bikini wax) or Jack Whitaker (referring to the Masters galleries as a "mob scene").

 

You just have to admire that way the Masters is run.

 

You are impressed/admire how a tournament is run because reporters may be banned for asking about the application of the Rules of Golf!?!

 

Other than a few malcontents on the internet, we're all happy that the rules are not the center of attention on Monday morning.

[Golfnuck]

I am just so impressed with how the Masters is run.

 

Had this been any other major at least one of the reporters would have likely asked Sergio whether he felt the ball moved.

 

I watched Sergio's post tournament conference and not one single question about it.

 

I wonder if the powers at Augusta gave a heads up to the reporters that such a question would result in said reporter begin banned from future Masters.

 

They can and have banned reporters in the past ........ ask Gary McCord (greens smoothed with bikini wax) or Jack Whitaker (referring to the Masters galleries as a "mob scene").

 

You just have to admire that way the Masters is run.

 

You are impressed/admire how a tournament is run because reporters may be banned for asking about the application of the Rules of Golf!?!

 

YES !!!!!!

 

Is it not refreshing that once the decision was made no more discussion was needed. The entire post tournament news conference was about the Sergio, the win and what a fantastic ending to the tournament it was.

 

My opinion is that had this not been the Masters and their ability to strictly control the press, the post tournament news conference would have dissolved into a massive discussion about whether or not the right decision was made.

 

Only on here are we discussing this non issue.

[The Big Pinch]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/923285-ball-moving-vs-oscillation-technicality/

[Sawgrass]

http://www.golfwrx.c...n-technicality/

 

I enjoyed reading that old thread. A good reminder of the fact that everything we say here is on our "permanent record."

 

Are you of a mind that Sergio's ball moved temporarily and then returned to it's original position? (Oscillated?). Or that the move was imperceptible?