Golf has a HUGE problem

[BG5]

I would like some feedback on a few things to determine if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong then Ill eat crow and learn something :)

 

I am an avid golfer and usually play around 50-100 rounds a year depending on time. I have two kids ages 5 and 8 who I am introducing the game to in small increments. A couple of upper tier public courses allow family days etc that offer free golf for youth during times that are not busy which is awesome. To be specific both of these courses are rated in the top 50 best courses in Michigan. I love taking my kids and sometimes we play 3 holes...or 5 and just have fun. My kids are not running all over the place and I am very aware of golf pace and allow groups to pass immediatley if needed. Since the courses are being awesome to my family I always make sure we grab a bite to eat afterwards and I always make sure my kids are on their absolute best behavior.

 

The funny thing is only the two top courses in the area offer this which amazes me. They understand the need to get youth involved at a young age and they also understand that most 5, 8 year olds dont really play a whole lot. Maybe they hit a few balls here or there but as many of us know they have fun in the cart.....maybe taking a few puts but basically just having fun being outside. My hopes is eventually the kids will begin to enjoy golf as a family bonding experience and that is whats currently happening as we begin this journey.

 

Now what blows me away is all the smaller mom and pop courses around me (which I love by the way) who offer no discount and want to charge full price for small kids. They have worked very hard to own their buisness so I respect that but I also see that many of these courses are hurting for business and could benefit greatly if they helped create new customers for the future. Again I dont go at peak times and have called about 15-20 courses in my area in the twilight times and people want to charge full price which to me seems a bit odd but maybe they have had bad experiences in the past with people who dont monitor their kids which as we know is a big problem in society. I dont mind spending money to golf but If I want to go with my wife and we want to take our kids for a few wholes I dont really want to play $100 when the kids really dont play a whole lot.

 

So heres what I ask the experts of GOLFWRX.

 

1. Should more courses try to offer family days.....cheaper prices/free for youth etc to try and grow the game?

 

2. AM I out of line and am I missing things here?????

[augustgolf]

You have a bunch of people "trained" in how to run courses now. Common sense is gone.

 

Get kids involved any way possible

[larrybud]

I don't know about entire family "days", esp not on the weekend. No course is going to shut down their weekend tee sheet for something which might get 20% participation.

 

In addition, even if you blocked off some times, you have liability issues. I don't know I would want to go down that path of I owned a course. Might destroy my entire business if I got sued.

 

I could see reserving the front 9 holes for an evening after the 18 hole players tee off, turning the course into all par 3s, and focus on the kids...No adults allowed to play.

[jewofgolf]

I think the best way to get kids involved is to walk a 9 hole par 3 or executive course. I've also had them walk along with me for 18. It's more easily digestible as outside time, and it also keeps them from getting lazy (which I see other kids do and my own kids over winter).

 

Asking a full size course to let kids come out for free is reasonable, but I don't think it helps participation as much as a course they can walk and play the entire holes on. Just my opinion, of course.

[elwhippy]

Not at all. I live in the UK. Golf is affordable to a large cross section of the population. My subs, including a locker and county and national union dues are about $800. But I am always baffled as to how someone who doesn't come from a family of players or is of substantial means gets into Golf in the USA. Your private country clubs and their dues and strict rules wouldn't wash in the UK. We have I estimate no more than 30 clubs in the whole of the UK that are members and guests only. There are national and local schemes to get youngsters into the game. Each English county has a development officer who goes into schools, youth clubs etc. and encourages people of all backgrounds to play. Our Pro and his assistant host junior sessions, for members and non members kids...for £2 a pop....for a full hour including balls. The local range does the same every Saturday and one evening a week. The social mix our club goes from bus drivers (a recent past captain) to surgeons, business owners, builders....all walks of life. Porsche parked next to a 12 year old Renault this afternoon....I imagine 80% of our members could not afford to play Golf in the USA.

[KYMAR]

I'm quite surprised that so few courses offer a even a junior rate. But I'm not surprised that so few offer a "family day" or slot of time. There are many guys whose only opportunity to play are at twilight after work and I am sure the last thing a course wants to do is drive away those guys in favor of one paying adult and a couple of slow playing kids. And while it's obvious that you're conscious of your surroundings and pace of play and that you keep your kids moving and well behaved, we all know that's just not how everyone is. Entitled adults bring their entitled obnoxious kids. Honestly, the more i think about, the more i'm surprised that you found 2 courses that do this.

 

I do disagree though that not setting aside time for 5 and 8 year old kids who, as you yourself admit, really don't care much about the golf is a "huge problem"

[Titleist 670]

If you have courses that allow your kids to play free/discount, what exactly is the problem? My father had me use the driving range until I was around 12, then I'd play very small courses - get dropped off in the morning with friends, play all day, it was maybe $20, or less. Playing dog tracks was great growing up.

 

Going to the driving range is an option

Play minature golf

Find a par 3 course

Find a junior clinic

 

5 years old seems incredibly young to be bringing a kid out on a full blown golf course anyway. Take the older one if they actually want to play and pay up. That will also help support struggling courses, rather than the notion that they should let your kids play for free.

 

If you have an issue with being charged, then don't play there.

[ricklinens]

Getting wee ones to the game is always a good idea.

[jut111]

Speaking for myself, if a course had a family day advertised, well I'd be playing somewhere else that day. I'm guessing I'm not the only one and courses have done that math.

 

When I was a kid, it was range, pitch n putt, executive course. I wasn't allowed near the big course till I was ready.

 

 

[Thrillhouse]

It might be fun for your kids to run around a full size golf course, but it isn't necessary and it isn't even the best way to learn the game.

 

Start by taking them to the range and let them whack balls, you can take them to a putting green at many of these places too. When they get to the point where they can actually hit it well enough to play take them to a 9 hole par 3, those courses exist for a reason, they're designed for people learning the game and are great for kids. Then when they're ready you can take them out to a full length course.

 

Seems like whenever something doesn't go some parents way on a golf course there's a complaint about growing the game, but having a bunch of kids running amuck on a golf course doesn't have that much to do with that. I know you say you don't do this at peak times but people who are actually trying to play (and who are paying for it) are probably not as enthralled with your kids as you are, and parents REALLY seem to think their kids are better behaved than they are.

[BG5]

Everyone has really valid points and I can see all angles after thinking about it. Many parents struggle with being a parent so I see that point of view. Having been a member at multiple clubs I am very aware of pace of play but as noted above I have also followed families a few times and it almost caused be to go insane since I never was offered a chance to play through so I understand that as well. I don't mind paying but full price is a bit much and that's why I purchased a family membership at a local club but decided against it this year. I just love golf and my kids are starting to enjoy it as well so it looks like I'll be going back to the membership again.

[8602081]

Lot of city and county courses offer specials for juniors after certain hours..

 

Privately owned courses are probably struggling to make money, I can understand why they don't want little kids play for free..

[zzyzxx33]

At My local course if your kid goes through their jr camp, $25 for 2 hours a day for 4 days, they are free after 5pm and the adult pays $5 greens fee, a cart is $12. I see a fair amount kids out in the evening.

[SmiterOfPv1x]

I play a weekday round with my 5 year old almost weekly during the season. However he doesn't "play". He putts once he hits the green. And by he "putts" I mean he drops his ball no more than 6" out and taps it in. I don't offer to pay for him to "play" and so far no one has mentioned it. I love this time that I get to spend with him and he asks me almost every day if we're going "golpin together tomorrow"? If a course were to force me to pay for him they'd lose my business right then and there. I wouldn't have any objection however if they were to enforce their "ride along" rates when he's with me. Some courses have them but no ones ever asked me to pay for him. I would if they were to ask and that wouldn't offend me. Now when my just now turned 12 and 13 year old go with me I either pay full fees or the full jr/sr fees for that course. Well actually I usually pay through GN or similar so it's not their posted rate but doing so I get no discount for them being young. Oh well, I'm not complaining since this is usually less than half of what the actual fees are for that course.

 

I do not let them play (except for youth events and such and the very occasional family round during off times) at the club where we're members. For one they usually just want to flirt with the girls and hang by the pool there anyways. For two, it's a much more serious level of golf and golfer than the local public courses and probably wouldn't be well received by the stuffy old dudes that sit on the board of directors. Not that I care a great deal for their opinions but as an average man of average means, if one of those guys looks at you cross eyed, your days there are numbered. I've seen it happen way to often. You get into a pissing match with them and you're new home course will be listed as "Goat Access Road Course". It was once a very exclusive club that due to a number of factors is now easily affordable by ordinary folk. Those guys hate ordinary folk and would love to return to the days where if your last name was not synonymous with a large business you weren't a member. What I don't want to lose is access to the best area course (by far) with the best practice facilities (by far). If that means I have to play the local public courses with my early teen kids, so be it. They don't particularly like this course anyways, it's too hard for them.

[Titleist 670]

I play a weekday round with my 5 year old almost weekly during the season. However he doesn't "play". He putts once he hits the green. And by he "putts" I mean he drops his ball no more than 6" out and taps it in. I don't offer to pay for him to "play" and so far no one has mentioned it. I love this time that I get to spend with him and he asks me almost every day if we're going "golpin together tomorrow"? If a course were to force me to pay for him they'd lose my business right then and there. I wouldn't have any objection however if they were to enforce their "ride along" rates when he's with me. Some courses have them but no ones ever asked me to pay for him. I would if they were to ask and that wouldn't offend me. Now when my just now turned 12 and 13 year old go with me I either pay full fees or the full jr/sr fees for that course. Well actually I usually pay through GN or similar so it's not their posted rate but doing so I get no discount for them being young. Oh well, I'm not complaining since this is usually less than half of what the actual fees are for that course.

 

I do not let them play (except for youth events and such and the very occasional family round during off times) at the club where we're members. For one they usually just want to flirt with the girls and hang by the pool there anyways. For two, it's a much more serious level of golf and golfer than the local public courses and probably wouldn't be well received by the stuffy old dudes that sit on the board of directors. Not that I care a great deal for their opinions but as an average man of average means, if one of those guys looks at you cross eyed, your days there are numbered. I've seen it happen way to often. You get into a pissing match with them and you're new home course will be listed as "Goat Access Road Course". It was once a very exclusive club that due to a number of factors is now easily affordable by ordinary folk. Those guys hate ordinary folk and would love to return to the days where if your last name was not synonymous with a large business you weren't a member. What I don't want to lose is access to the best area course (by far) with the best practice facilities (by far). If that means I have to play the local public courses with my early teen kids, so be it. They don't particularly like this course anyways, it's too hard for them.

 

The first paragraph is what I'd assume most courses would let people do - tell them your kid is riding along, then let them putt a few greens as long as it's not crowded and you're not holding anyone up.

[Carl Spackler2]

Most Troon managed golf courses have a special after 2:30. One paid adult is one free junior (17 and under). Check it out

[Pat du Golf]

I was in the same situation until I joined the Northern California Golf Association. They have a kids program where it costs $5 per round until the age of 16. They have a list of courses enrolled in the program....

Check out www.youthoncourse.org they might be in Michigan too.

[Pat du Golf]

I would like some feedback on a few things to determine if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong then Ill eat crow and learn something :)

 

I am an avid golfer and usually play around 50-100 rounds a year depending on time. I have two kids ages 5 and 8 who I am introducing the game to in small increments. A couple of upper tier public courses allow family days etc that offer free golf for youth during times that are not busy which is awesome. To be specific both of these courses are rated in the top 50 best courses in Michigan. I love taking my kids and sometimes we play 3 holes...or 5 and just have fun. My kids are not running all over the place and I am very aware of golf pace and allow groups to pass immediatley if needed. Since the courses are being awesome to my family I always make sure we grab a bite to eat afterwards and I always make sure my kids are on their absolute best behavior.

 

The funny thing is only the two top courses in the area offer this which amazes me. They understand the need to get youth involved at a young age and they also understand that most 5, 8 year olds dont really play a whole lot. Maybe they hit a few balls here or there but as many of us know they have fun in the cart.....maybe taking a few puts but basically just having fun being outside. My hopes is eventually the kids will begin to enjoy golf as a family bonding experience and that is whats currently happening as we begin this journey.

 

Now what blows me away is all the smaller mom and pop courses around me (which I love by the way) who offer no discount and want to charge full price for small kids. They have worked very hard to own their buisness so I respect that but I also see that many of these courses are hurting for business and could benefit greatly if they helped create new customers for the future. Again I dont go at peak times and have called about 15-20 courses in my area in the twilight times and people want to charge full price which to me seems a bit odd but maybe they have had bad experiences in the past with people who dont monitor their kids which as we know is a big problem in society. I dont mind spending money to golf but If I want to go with my wife and we want to take our kids for a few wholes I dont really want to play $100 when the kids really dont play a whole lot.

 

So heres what I ask the experts of GOLFWRX.

 

1. Should more courses try to offer family days.....cheaper prices/free for youth etc to try and grow the game?

 

2. AM I out of line and am I missing things here?????

 

https://youthoncourse.org/

[Pat du Golf]

BG5,

 

There are many courses in the program from Michigan.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1uBrK7_bQCt549kxyJAL2q29n2W0&ll=40.2925263429616%2C-98.23489846875009&z=4

[caniac6]

I would like some feedback on a few things to determine if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong then Ill eat crow and learn something :)

 

I am an avid golfer and usually play around 50-100 rounds a year depending on time. I have two kids ages 5 and 8 who I am introducing the game to in small increments. A couple of upper tier public courses allow family days etc that offer free golf for youth during times that are not busy which is awesome. To be specific both of these courses are rated in the top 50 best courses in Michigan. I love taking my kids and sometimes we play 3 holes...or 5 and just have fun. My kids are not running all over the place and I am very aware of golf pace and allow groups to pass immediatley if needed. Since the courses are being awesome to my family I always make sure we grab a bite to eat afterwards and I always make sure my kids are on their absolute best behavior.

 

The funny thing is only the two top courses in the area offer this which amazes me. They understand the need to get youth involved at a young age and they also understand that most 5, 8 year olds dont really play a whole lot. Maybe they hit a few balls here or there but as many of us know they have fun in the cart.....maybe taking a few puts but basically just having fun being outside. My hopes is eventually the kids will begin to enjoy golf as a family bonding experience and that is whats currently happening as we begin this journey.

 

Now what blows me away is all the smaller mom and pop courses around me (which I love by the way) who offer no discount and want to charge full price for small kids. They have worked very hard to own their buisness so I respect that but I also see that many of these courses are hurting for business and could benefit greatly if they helped create new customers for the future. Again I dont go at peak times and have called about 15-20 courses in my area in the twilight times and people want to charge full price which to me seems a bit odd but maybe they have had bad experiences in the past with people who dont monitor their kids which as we know is a big problem in society. I dont mind spending money to golf but If I want to go with my wife and we want to take our kids for a few wholes I dont really want to play $100 when the kids really dont play a whole lot.

 

So heres what I ask the experts of GOLFWRX.

 

1. Should more courses try to offer family days.....cheaper prices/free for youth etc to try and grow the game?

 

2. AM I out of line and am I missing things here?????

The Family Days are a great idea. You are not out of line, and this could be a income source for courses during slower times. One of the best ideas I have read on this forum.

[North Butte]

Not at all. I live in the UK. Golf is affordable to a large cross section of the population. My subs, including a locker and county and national union dues are about $800. But I am always baffled as to how someone who doesn't come from a family of players or is of substantial means gets into Golf in the USA. Your private country clubs and their dues and strict rules wouldn't wash in the UK. We have I estimate no more than 30 clubs in the whole of the UK that are members and guests only. There are national and local schemes to get youngsters into the game. Each English county has a development officer who goes into schools, youth clubs etc. and encourages people of all backgrounds to play. Our Pro and his assistant host junior sessions, for members and non members kids...for £2 a pop....for a full hour including balls. The local range does the same every Saturday and one evening a week. The social mix our club goes from bus drivers (a recent past captain) to surgeons, business owners, builders....all walks of life. Porsche parked next to a 12 year old Renault this afternoon....I imagine 80% of our members could not afford to play Golf in the USA.

 

Public courses in many areas of USA are cheap. Public golf is the norm here, not private clubs.

 

My first decade of playing I had a monthly pass at a public course near my home. It was $62/month for all the golf I wanted to play. Equivalent to around 500 pounds/year in your money. That was 20 years ago. The same course is up around $70/month now.

[Yrrdead]

In case you missed it ;

 

https://youthoncourse.org

 

It isn't everywhere but it is in michigan all over the place so I would check it out.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1uBrK7_bQCt549kxyJAL2q29n2W0&ll=39.41541219913205%2C-96.67483987500012&z=5

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Most of the courses in my area have junior rates, junior memberships, and family membership. ex. One place...it's $299/month for a family membership, which includes two adults and two minors. We're not talking a dumpy course either...it's a nice club. That kind of thing...to me...is brilliant.

[BillyZ2]

Wouldn't it be great if all kids were raised and supervised like you say you raise your children? Unfortunately you have those families whose kids are undisciplined, probably not maintaining the course has required. It isn't difficult to imagine a scenario where kids are on a golf course doing damage to the green, even unknowingly, because they haven't been disciplined to do otherwise. There should be programs for youngsters who genuinely have a desire to learn the game, and a method for parents to see that that happens, but really the only way to ensure that the course is maintained properly is to golfers pay full price. I can see a junior rate being a very good thing, but I can also see the owners side of the story.

[mosesgolf]

1982 & 83(summer vacation) my high school buddies and I played golf almost everyday Mon-Friday at all the Long Beach, Ca courses for $1.50. It was cheaper to play golf for 4-4.5 hours vs going to the arcade to drop all kinds of quarters playing Asteroid, Centipede, & Defender. Boy those were good times. Recreation Park, Skylinks, & El Dorado were our go to places. We all still play golf to this day.

 

I just checked one of my old Long Beach haunting grounds and it's $6 after 1PM. All 3 of the above Long Beach Courses are nice. It's great that they still support junior golf.

[HighSpeedScene]

My kids love this joint:

 

https://www.cantignygolf.com/youth-links

 

More of this would be awesome

 

 

[mallrat]

One thing that some courses around here do is pay your age until you are out of school, be it high school or college. 1 course around here does $9 Friday afternoon nine holes for the family instead of twilight.

 

One of my favorites was another course around here used put tee markers between 50 & 100 yards (not exactly that distance) on all Par 4 & 5's and did family twilight rates of $20 for the family. I thought that was an awesome idea and you used to see a decent amount of families out.

[jpthreesticks]

Already mentioned, but another plug for Youth on Course. It's in Michigan and is spreading towards the East Coast after being mostly West Coast for the past few years (and in Northern Cal for the past dozen or so).

[CHARGERS]

Most Troon managed golf courses have a special after 2:30. One paid adult is one free junior (17 and under). Check it out

Very smart program...every course should adopt and promote some type of deal like this.

 

 

[thug the bunny]

It might be fun for your kids to run around a full size golf course, but it isn't necessary and it isn't even the best way to learn the game.

 

Start by taking them to the range and let them whack balls, you can take them to a putting green at many of these places too. When they get to the point where they can actually hit it well enough to play take them to a 9 hole par 3, those courses exist for a reason, they're designed for people learning the game and are great for kids. Then when they're ready you can take them out to a full length course.

 

Seems like whenever something doesn't go some parents way on a golf course there's a complaint about growing the game, but having a bunch of kids running amuck on a golf course doesn't have that much to do with that. I know you say you don't do this at peak times but people who are actually trying to play (and who are paying for it) are probably not as enthralled with your kids as you are, and parents REALLY seem to think their kids are better behaved than they are.

 

Also, the backyard or a local park. They don't need much more than about 80yds of space at that point.