Playing To Win or He Just Doesn't Know Unwritten Rules of Match Play?

[HackinNut]

Playing in league play the other night, (mind you we are playing basically for a beer in the long run) but something got to me & was wondering if I just over reacted.

How many people have you played with that during a match, 2 vs 2, are constantly asking you before you hole out .... "so what's this for?" or "what are lying here?" or "You putting for a par or bogey here?" All before you actually hole out and finish the hole!

For some reason this just annoyed the hell out of me because it happened more than once during the round. Each time it seemed as though he was doing it on purpose.

Grant it, I should have played better and blocked it out. If I was playing better and would have made the putts then maybe it wouldn't have annoyed me as much but it did. So if he was trying to get under my skin then he accomplished it. Played one of the worst rounds of my life.

I never said anything to him in the end but asked other guys later around the bar & they said "yeah, he's known for doing that."

 

So what would you have done? Would you have said something to him politely or just ignored it? Am I wrong and over reacting? I know there is no such "rule" per se, but it's just common courtesy to settle all scores off the green after everyone has holed out. It's not like the scores will change.

 

Thoughts?

[golfandfishing]

He has every right to know where the hole stands at any point. You lose the hole if you give him incorrect information.

[b.helts]

If it's match play he is absolutely within his right to know what you lay.

 

If it's stroke play he's just being a dick.

 

Either way, it sounds like he's a bit of a dick, and either way you need to learn to deal with it better.

[SadTrombone]

If it's match play he is absolutely within his right to know what you lay.

 

If it's stroke play he's just being a dick.

 

Either way, it sounds like he's a bit of a dick, and either way you need to learn to deal with it better.

 

He needs to pay better attention, and the OP needs to deal with it better (particularly if it's match play). Sorry, OP, probably not what you were hoping to read but I don't see anything really "wrong" here. Beat him 5&4 next time and let him ask all the questions he wants.

[Sawgrass]

Playing in league play the other night, (mind you we are playing basically for a beer in the long run) but something got to me & was wondering if I just over reacted.

How many people have you played with that during a match, 2 vs 2, are constantly asking you before you hole out .... "so what's this for?" or "what are lying here?" or "You putting for a par or bogey here?" All before you actually hole out and finish the hole!

For some reason this just annoyed the hell out of me because it happened more than once during the round. Each time it seemed as though he was doing it on purpose.

Grant it, I should have played better and blocked it out. If I was playing better and would have made the putts then maybe it wouldn't have annoyed me as much but it did. So if he was trying to get under my skin then he accomplished it. Played one of the worst rounds of my life.

I never said anything to him in the end but asked other guys later around the bar & they said "yeah, he's known for doing that."

 

So what would you have done? Would you have said something to him politely or just ignored it? Am I wrong and over reacting? I know there is no such "rule" per se, but it's just common courtesy to settle all scores off the green after everyone has holed out. It's not like the scores will change.

 

Thoughts?

 

9-2. Match Play

 

a. Information as to Strokes Taken

 

An opponent is entitled to ascertain from the player, during the play of a hole, the number of strokes he has taken and, after play of a hole, the number of strokes taken on the hole just completed.

[OffTheDole]

Sounds like your opponent was employing some low-level gamesmanship.

 

Now, the Rule (9-2) states that you must inform your opponent “as soon as practicable,” a purposely broad definition that gives you some leeway.

 

The R&A even offers a decision that may help you combat this gamesmanship in the future, specifically 9-2/4:

 

Q. In a match between A and B, A asks B during play of a hole how many strokes he (B) has taken. B, whose turn it is to play, withholds the information until he has played his next stroke. Is B subject to penalty under Rule 9-2?

 

A. No, provided B gave the information before A played his next stroke

 

Maybe next time you play this guy and he pulls this routine, state very pointedly that you'll let him know before he plays his next stroke, but only after you've played your own.

 

"I'll gladly tell you after I've completed my stroke. You'll know where you stand before you hit your next shot."

[Matt J]

I'd say, "two, until I sink this putt for a birdie. What's wrong, you can't count that high?"

 

Just kidding. Can't let it get to you.

[Augster]

I ask all the time also. It's within the rules and great gamesmanship. You want your opponent to be thinking about what the putt means instead of just going to stroke it.

 

And as you found out, it works great.

 

Plus if you F up and give the wrong score, and don't correct it before your opponent plays, you lose the hole.

 

 

 

 

[SadTrombone]

You could always get snarky. "I'm about to make this for a three, so you won't have to putt that for your five when I do..."

 

If nothing else it'll make the other guys in the group uncomfortable.

[Mudguard]

I ask all the time also. It's within the rules and great gamesmanship. You want your opponent to be thinking about what the putt means instead of just going to stroke it.

 

I think this is ridiculous ploy. If you genuinely don't know what someone is, then fine. But I can see it just getting out of control. Standing over your approach to a par 4, a yell across the fairway, what are you to there....

As OffTheDole stated, the person asking only must be told before they play their stroke. So perhaps if you keep insisting you might find it being given just before you take the club away...

[Vindog]

What is the "unwritten rule" here?

[larrybud]

I'd say, "two, until I sink this putt for a birdie. What's wrong, you can't count that high?"

 

Exactly, I'd turn that right around on him.

 

"This is for a birdie to win another hole from you. Don't you get tired of hearing that?".

 

Or just ask him after every time he asks you.

[cwglum]

What is the "unwritten rule" here?

 

I think the unwritten rule is to Pay attention to what's going on. If you're asking literally every shot, every hole, you're either not paying attention or are just trying to 'game' the other person. If you're 'gaming' the other person, be careful what you ask for ... might get exactly what you want and get outplayed at your own game.

[North Butte]

If you ever encountered a real head game artist, you would be hopeless. I can't believe you are complaining about this.

 

Hey, you played with an annoying guy. Maybe he was annoying on purpose or maybe he's just a doofus. Whatever.

[Augster]

I ask all the time also. It's within the rules and great gamesmanship. You want your opponent to be thinking about what the putt means instead of just going to stroke it.

 

I think this is ridiculous ploy. If you genuinely don't know what someone is, then fine. But I can see it just getting out of control. Standing over your approach to a par 4, a yell across the fairway, what are you to there....

As OffTheDole stated, the person asking only must be told before they play their stroke. So perhaps if you keep insisting you might find it being given just before you take the club away...

 

Ridiculous? Why? Because it works.

 

In this thread alone we have a sample size of 1 and the ploy worked 100%.

 

Asking during full shots doesn't work as those shots are full, high speed, motor movements. Asking a player his score, on a full swing, simply doesn't work.

 

Asking on a slow swing, putts/chips, with fine motor movements, it works surprisingly well.

 

Give it a try.

[LeoLeo99]

What is the "unwritten rule" here?

 

Don't be a jerk.

[larrybud]

I ask all the time also. It's within the rules and great gamesmanship. You want your opponent to be thinking about what the putt means instead of just going to stroke it.

 

I think this is ridiculous ploy. If you genuinely don't know what someone is, then fine. But I can see it just getting out of control. Standing over your approach to a par 4, a yell across the fairway, what are you to there....

As OffTheDole stated, the person asking only must be told before they play their stroke. So perhaps if you keep insisting you might find it being given just before you take the club away...

 

Ridiculous? Why? Because it works.

 

In this thread alone we have a sample size of 1 and the ploy worked 100%.

 

Asking during full shots doesn't work as those shots are full, high speed, motor movements. Asking a player his score, on a full swing, simply doesn't work.

 

Asking on a slow swing, putts/chips, with fine motor movements, it works surprisingly well.

 

Give it a try.

 

I guess if you don't have the game to win on it's own merits and want to be an asshat, it might be worth it.

[larrybud]

I had a guy on a league championship match literally sit down on the green 3 or 4 times, about 10' behind the hole when I was putting. I just laughed, asked him to move every time, and beat him.

[QEight]

What is the "unwritten rule" here?

 

I think the unwritten rule is to Pay attention to what's going on. If you're asking literally every shot, every hole, you're either not paying attention or are just trying to 'game' the other person. If you're 'gaming' the other person, be careful what you ask for ... might get exactly what you want and get outplayed at your own game.

 

Per OP it was "constantly" and then "more than once".

 

For some reason I am left with a feeling it happened perhaps twice but at the "right" moments.

[2bGood]

I usually have a great idea of where everyone stands in match when we hit the green. But if I don't I will ask as it will change the way I may putt. i.e. If you I need to make the putt to tie a hole, then I don't worry about hitting it well past the hole.

 

Having said that I might ask 2 or 3 times per round at most. Not to be a jerk I am going to ask at a good time - i.e. - before anyone putts, as we put our bags down or before my own putt as opposed to before their putt.

[cmb71]

It has happened to me before as well. What really bothered me was the frequency my opponent chose to ask the question. He must have asked on 2/3 of the greens we played that day.

 

I can see it happening a time or two during the match, especially if I was hacking it around, but if it was being used as a ploy to throw me off it didn't really work. Hell, I'm mentally fragile most days on the golf course (and elsewhere), but counting my strokes on a par 4 hole where I hit the fairway, then the green, about to hit my first putt didn't throw me off my game. It just made him seem like a jerk after the third time he asked...

[Vindog]

I think the unwritten rule is to Pay attention to what's going on. If you're asking literally every shot, every hole, you're either not paying attention or are just trying to 'game' the other person. If you're 'gaming' the other person, be careful what you ask for ... might get exactly what you want and get outplayed at your own game.

Don't be a jerk.

 

Yeah good luck with those. We all know what kinds of people are out there..."all kinds." The unwritten rule of a competition (yes even a match for beer) is don't let your opponent get to you - jerk, inattentive or otherwise.

[Pure745]

Gamesmanship and it worked.

 

I would have started announcing what shot I was hitting before I hit it. If I was playing well, I'd keep doing it until he asked me to stop. If he was really being a dick about it, I'd keep doing it all the way till the end and make him putt everything out and I would ask him every shot what he was hitting while still announcing what I was doing. It would be a quick lesson learned for him.

[eagle1997]

I had a guy on a league championship match literally sit down on the green 3 or 4 times, about 10' behind the hole when I was putting. I just laughed, asked him to move every time, and beat him.

 

something i learned earlier this year: while it can be considered a breach of etiquette for your opponent to stand on the line of putt, it's not illegal.

 

https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=47&Rule=14

[J13]

Gamesmanship and it worked.

 

I would have started announcing what shot I was hitting before I hit it. If I was playing well, I'd keep doing it until he asked me to stop. If he was really being a dick about it, I'd keep doing it all the way till the end and make him putt everything out and I would ask him every shot what he was hitting while still announcing what I was doing. It would be a quick lesson learned for him.

 

I like hitting a drive then while in mid air call out the distance.

[OffTheDole]

Gamesmanship and it worked.

 

I would have started announcing what shot I was hitting before I hit it. If I was playing well, I'd keep doing it until he asked me to stop. If he was really being a dick about it, I'd keep doing it all the way till the end and make him putt everything out and I would ask him every shot what he was hitting while still announcing what I was doing. It would be a quick lesson learned for him.

 

Brilliant, especially the part about asking him every shot that he was hitting and making him putt out. There's even the outside chance that Mr. How Many Strokes would learn his lesson and chill with the annoying -- yet completely within the rules -- behavior.

 

In my mind, the unwritten rule on this is to ask only when you're not sure or when there is a good reason to, like when your opponent may have taken extra strokes. People who choose to play this way are more than welcome to do it, they just won't be in my group when I have a choice. Life is too short to spend time on the golf course with jerks.

[HackinNut]

I understand it being within his right to do it ... But right when I'm about to putt he says "what's this for?" I mean literally about to take the putter back... I had already addressed the ball.

How about asking AFTER I stroke it ?? Either way, you get your answer before you play your next shot. Incidentally, the majority of the time he asked was when I was last to putt. So there wasn't another stroke for him to play.

I knew it was within his right... I've been playing for 40+ years I know the rules.

I know, I know ... play better and don't let it get to me. Blah blah blah

[cmb71]

I understand it being within his right to do it ... But right when I'm about to putt he says "what's this for?" I mean literally about to take the putter back... I had already addressed the ball.

How about asking AFTER I stroke it ?? Either way, you get your answer before you play your next shot. Incidentally, the majority of the time he asked was when I was last to putt. So there wasn't another stroke for him to play.

I knew it was within his right... I've been playing for 40+ years I know the rules.

I know, I know ... play better and don't let it get to me. Blah blah blah

 

Total DB move there...

[Augster]

I understand it being within his right to do it ... But right when I'm about to putt he says "what's this for?" I mean literally about to take the putter back... I had already addressed the ball.

How about asking AFTER I stroke it ?? Either way, you get your answer before you play your next shot. Incidentally, the majority of the time he asked was when I was last to putt. So there wasn't another stroke for him to play.

I knew it was within his right... I've been playing for 40+ years I know the rules.

I know, I know ... play better and don't let it get to me. Blah blah blah

 

Total DB move there...

 

Agreed.

 

As an add, you are only obligated to give your score. It is your opponent's obligation to know if you stroke or not.

 

So after he asks, you only need to answer,"I'm putting for 4." You don't need to answer, "I'm putting for 4, net 3."

 

The OP's problem, as described just above, isn't an "unwritten rule" thing. It's more of an etiquette thing. It would have been more accurate to say, "My opponent kept talking to me after I had addressed the ball."

[Carl Spackler3]

Playing in league play the other night, (mind you we are playing basically for a beer in the long run) but something got to me & was wondering if I just over reacted.

How many people have you played with that during a match, 2 vs 2, are constantly asking you before you hole out .... "so what's this for?" or "what are lying here?" or "You putting for a par or bogey here?" All before you actually hole out and finish the hole!

For some reason this just annoyed the hell out of me because it happened more than once during the round. Each time it seemed as though he was doing it on purpose.

Grant it, I should have played better and blocked it out. If I was playing better and would have made the putts then maybe it wouldn't have annoyed me as much but it did. So if he was trying to get under my skin then he accomplished it. Played one of the worst rounds of my life.

I never said anything to him in the end but asked other guys later around the bar & they said "yeah, he's known for doing that."

 

So what would you have done? Would you have said something to him politely or just ignored it? Am I wrong and over reacting? I know there is no such "rule" per se, but it's just common courtesy to settle all scores off the green after everyone has holed out. It's not like the scores will change.

 

Thoughts?anyone who asks what I lay before I'm done. I will always shave a stroke on Par 3s and 4s and maybe 2 on a par 5. Then record the proper score when I'm done, that usually gets a comical response, if you want to know ,.... pay attention