Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[King_Slender]

A QUESTION ON UNEVEN TEE BOXES

 

I see tee boxes all the time that get crowned and are just uneven that don't get touched for years and see how long complete renovations can take.

 

QUESTION: Can't a sod cutter/roller be used where you would essentially "roll up" the tee box in strips, flatten the tee box out, and then roll those same strips right back over the tee box, water it, and get it back in place in a couple weeks when the sod takes hold? 

 

I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but that seems like a fix that could be done on most tee boxes in a day by a couple guys.

[mallrat]

9 hours ago, King_Slender said:

A QUESTION ON UNEVEN TEE BOXES

 

I see tee boxes all the time that get crowned and are just uneven that don't get touched for years and see how long complete renovations can take.

 

QUESTION: Can't a sod cutter/roller be used where you would essentially "roll up" the tee box in strips, flatten the tee box out, and then roll those same strips right back over the tee box, water it, and get it back in place in a couple weeks when the sod takes hold? 

 

I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but that seems like a fix that could be done on most tee boxes in a day by a couple guys.

In theory, yes.

 

We are doing an average of 3 tee boxes a winter to remove crowing and expand the teeing area. At its core we do what you are saying but to get it right it’s a lot more involved. 
 

First, the stripping of the sod is easy but the problem at the same time. We are a Poa course and there is no point in searching out Poa sod so we use Perennial Rye and the Poa takes over inside 2 years. When we strip the sod most tee sod ends up being garbage. Between the broken tees embedded in the turf to the thinning brittleness of our tees from being hammered by play, 40-60% is unusable.

 

Now to do it right you should use a laser level. We bring in a skid steer with a laser level and it is just a lot of fine tuning. Add in the plate compacting and the inevitable from feet or whatever and it’s not that simple. 
 

Ours take a minimum of 4-6 weeks to get a tee box open again. 

[mallrat]

For the Bermuda guys, how easy will Pinehurst come back from this US Open? I ask because, to me, there is some areas that look like they might be lost. Honestly kind of surprised they would let new turf get to that point

 

on Poa we could keep it alive if we started watering as soon as the last group passed but look at it for a couple weeks and have to keep traffic away from it. Bent seemed like the same thing but never stressed greens or fairways like that. 

Edited June 16, 2024 by mallrat

[smashdn]

Bermuda is damn near a weed.  In fact, in a good deal of lawns it is a weed.  It too will just go dormant when it doesn't get inputs.  Splash it with some water and it will come back.  I highly doubt they lose any of it.

[Abh159]

20 hours ago, mallrat said:

For the Bermuda guys, how easy will Pinehurst come back from this US Open? I ask because, to me, there is some areas that look like they might be lost. Honestly kind of surprised they would let new turf get to that point

 

on Poa we could keep it alive if we started watering as soon as the last group passed but look at it for a couple weeks and have to keep traffic away from it. Bent seemed like the same thing but never stressed greens or fairways like that. 

 

I'm in the southeast and have bermuda in my front/side yard. In 8 years I've never once watered it, fertilized it, aerated it, or done anything to maintain it aside from mowing it in the summer. My dogs constantly relieve themselves on it, I've had people park their car on it, and I've even had city employees dig part of it up to do some fire hydrant maintenance. 

 

All that being said... It goes dormant every November and comes back dang near perfect every year in April/May. I honestly don't know if I could kill it if I tried.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

20 hours ago, mallrat said:

For the Bermuda guys, how easy will Pinehurst come back from this US Open? I ask because, to me, there is some areas that look like they might be lost. Honestly kind of surprised they would let new turf get to that point

 

on Poa we could keep it alive if we started watering as soon as the last group passed but look at it for a couple weeks and have to keep traffic away from it. Bent seemed like the same thing but never stressed greens or fairways like that. 

In 2014 they had the men's and women's back to back there in June.   It was a lot more "baked" than it got this year.  I was there in late July and you wouldn't have noticed a thing, it was in near perfect condition, so I'm thinking they got it back pretty quickly. 

[caniac6]

We have had people in my neighborhood spray Roundup on their lawns to convert from Bermuda to fescue. The first season it looks pretty good, but the next year the Bermuda is back. I worked at a course very close to the Sandhills, and our fairways would turn grey on hot summer days. Add a bit of water, and they would bounce right back. The crosswalks might take awhile, but a good soaking will green most of up.

[TexasTurf]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:22 PM, mallrat said:

For the Bermuda guys, how easy will Pinehurst come back from this US Open? I ask because, to me, there is some areas that look like they might be lost. Honestly kind of surprised they would let new turf get to that point

 

on Poa we could keep it alive if we started watering as soon as the last group passed but look at it for a couple weeks and have to keep traffic away from it. Bent seemed like the same thing but never stressed greens or fairways like that. 

What these other guys have said x1000.  

 

We are doing a renovation right now and have sprayed our bermuda over and over with every chemical on the market and it keeps coming back whenever we get any rain. It's like a cheat code. And why i said the Kaisers should use it on every surface for their new Texas courses and they will knock it out of the park. 

[golfortennis]

So this is a strange one that has come up.  I've noted multiple times how people think they have fixed their ball mark, but seem to miss the part about "you are finished when it's a surface you would putt over."  One of my buddies says he believes the green heals better if he leaves it a bit crowned rather than tamped down flat.

 

Surely he must be off his rocker, or is there something to his thinking? 

[Dancin]

3 hours ago, golfortennis said:

So this is a strange one that has come up.  I've noted multiple times how people think they have fixed their ball mark, but seem to miss the part about "you are finished when it's a surface you would putt over."  One of my buddies says he believes the green heals better if he leaves it a bit crowned rather than tamped down flat.

 

Surely he must be off his rocker, or is there something to his thinking? 

He's wrong in multiple ways. There should never be a crown as you should never be pulling up. If you fix a divot by digging under and levering it up you are creating a dead spot that will develop in a few days as you have just ripped the roots off of the grass. Push to the middle from all sides and then flatten. You can even make a few holes in the middle of the mark first to make that easier. A properly fixed divot shouldn't even be visible to the next group on the green.

[golfortennis]

15 hours ago, Dancin said:

He's wrong in multiple ways. There should never be a crown as you should never be pulling up. If you fix a divot by digging under and levering it up you are creating a dead spot that will develop in a few days as you have just ripped the roots off of the grass. Push to the middle from all sides and then flatten. You can even make a few holes in the middle of the mark first to make that easier. A properly fixed divot shouldn't even be visible to the next group on the green.

 

That is what I thought.  Thank you.

[Holy Moses]

15 hours ago, Dancin said:

He's wrong in multiple ways. There should never be a crown as you should never be pulling up. If you fix a divot by digging under and levering it up you are creating a dead spot that will develop in a few days as you have just ripped the roots off of the grass. Push to the middle from all sides and then flatten. You can even make a few holes in the middle of the mark first to make that easier. A properly fixed divot shouldn't even be visible to the next group on the green.

And if you leave too much of a crown the mower can scalp that the next day

[Nels55]

19 hours ago, Dancin said:

He's wrong in multiple ways. There should never be a crown as you should never be pulling up. If you fix a divot by digging under and levering it up you are creating a dead spot that will develop in a few days as you have just ripped the roots off of the grass. Push to the middle from all sides and then flatten. You can even make a few holes in the middle of the mark first to make that easier. A properly fixed divot shouldn't even be visible to the next group on the green.

A lot of guys twist the divot tool while they are pulling up.  Just to make sure that they kill the roots I guess...

[NDSwim]

Overseed has started in Arizona and Phoenix temps are 105+ with lows in the high 70s for at least the next week.  How will this affect overseed?

[TexasTurf]

5 hours ago, NDSwim said:

Overseed has started in Arizona and Phoenix temps are 105+ with lows in the high 70s for at least the next week.  How will this affect overseed?

Better now than later for sure. But it probably won't germinate until the low temps drop into the 60's. So basically the seeds will just sit there until the heat wave passes, then they will start growing.

[PeteNC]

Why do courses in the south that have bermuda fairways and bentgrass greens have bermuda fringes?  Seems Would it be more to have bent fringes?

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, PeteNC said:

Why do courses in the south that have bermuda fairways and bentgrass greens have bermuda fringes?  Seems Would it be more to have bent fringes?

The fringes take the brunt of the stress since they are mowed daily and turned on the same spots and bermuda can take that stress better

[act0fgod]

On 6/17/2024 at 1:10 PM, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

In 2014 they had the men's and women's back to back there in June.   It was a lot more "baked" than it got this year.  I was there in late July and you wouldn't have noticed a thing, it was in near perfect condition, so I'm thinking they got it back pretty quickly. 

Hmmm...#2 was closed until September basically right after the events to switch the greens from bent to the ultra dwarf.  They didn't bermuda care that the bent greens at the time were basically going to die due to the stress of the back to back tournaments.  The point that Bermuda is hardy I guess is made as they changed to bermuda because the bent couldn't handle the summer stress (unfortunately they now have to tarp in the winter, so no winter twilight rounds).

[Nickb333]

Hey mallrat,

 

Would it be considered poor form to plant a few paintball snipers around greens to remind folks to fix their ball marks? Or just cost prohibitive? 
 

 

[caniac6]

8 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

Hey mallrat,

 

Would it be considered poor form to plant a few paintball snipers around greens to remind folks to fix their ball marks? Or just cost prohibitive? 
 

 

They would probably pay the club to be able to do it.

[mallrat]

2 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Hey mallrat,

 

Would it be considered poor form to plant a few paintball snipers around greens to remind folks to fix their ball marks? Or just cost prohibitive? 
 

 

I’d do it for free. I’ve resorted to using the regulars to police others in their groups

 

[PeteNC]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:54 PM, Holy Moses said:

The fringes take the brunt of the stress since they are mowed daily and turned on the same spots and bermuda can take that stress better

More stress than the actual green itself?

[Holy Moses]

7 hours ago, PeteNC said:

More stress than the actual green itself?

Yes. Whether it’s a bent green and bent fringe or a bent green and bermuda fringe or a bermuda green and bermuda fringe, they take a beating from the mowers because you can’t cut them in different directions each day.

[mallrat]

3 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Yes. Whether it’s a bent green and bent fringe or a bent green and bermuda fringe or a bermuda green and bermuda fringe, they take a beating from the mowers because you can’t cut them in different directions each day.

One other aspect is they often have a buildup of sand from top dressing. 
 

As said above, if you watch, that is why a lot of high end courses use turning board. 

[TexasTurf]

The last two replies are wrong. You can and should be cutting the collars in different directions. And you should not have a buildup of sand on the collars from topdressing, that should be removed immediately if a poor operator is getting sand on the collars.

 

The real reason is because the mowers turn on them, and that torque wears them down.

[PeteNC]

7 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

The last two replies are wrong. You can and should be cutting the collars in different directions. And you should not have a buildup of sand on the collars from topdressing, that should be removed immediately if a poor operator is getting sand on the collars.

 

The real reason is because the mowers turn on them, and that torque wears them down.

 

So just drive 3 more feet and turn in the fairway/rough that is bermuda?

[Holy Moses]

8 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

The last two replies are wrong. You can and should be cutting the collars in different directions. And you should not have a buildup of sand on the collars from topdressing, that should be removed immediately if a poor operator is getting sand on the collars.

 

The real reason is because the mowers turn on them, and that torque wears them down.

That’s what I was trying to say. They get turned on everyday while the greens don’t.

[swh0507]

Quick question. When a pin is on a slope, should the hole be cut level to the slope or level overall? Thank you.

[caniac6]

6 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Quick question. When a pin is on a slope, should the hole be cut level to the slope or level overall? Thank you.

The guy cutting holes should be taught not to put a hole on a slope. Option 3.

[swh0507]

6 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

The guy cutting holes should be taught not to put a hole on a slope. Option 3.

Thanks for your super helpful response.

 

Below is a heat map of hole 1 at Springfield Country club. This is where the US open sectional was played that Adam Scott lost in a playoff. Where exactly would you put the pin for your option 3?