Lie angle, Ball flight...

[jpdx]

So perhaps I'm just not understanding Lie angle and how it affects ball flight.

 

I'm fitted on my gamer set to 2* flat.

 

I have 2 main misses: over draw/hook or a push block (straight flight to the right correct?)

 

I keep reading that too flat should cause a draw/hook and too upright would lead to push block (for a right handed golfer). But my misses would tell me I'm too upright, and at the same time too flat. I'm thinking that my answer actually lies with something in my swing. But before I try to diagnose (youtube, instruction forum here, or pga professional), I thought I'd ask here based on lie angles as I recently have felt that the toe of the club is not flat at address, however I was told at my fitting that the lie angle at address is irrelevant.

 

Thoughts?

[nbg352]

You have the signs of someone getting stuck.

Doesn't sound like a lie problem. Flattening the lie does close the face. It helps prevent the rights (for a righty). bending upright will open the face which should help with the lefts. Too upright can cause hooks, too flat can cause pushes. But all that is dependant on reasonably good swing mechanics.

Make sure that the club head is not getting behind your hands during the backswing..

[jpdx]

You have the signs of someone getting stuck.

Doesn't sound like a lie problem. Flattening the lie does close the face. It helps prevent the rights (for a righty). bending upright will open the face which should help with the lefts. Too upright can cause hooks, too flat can cause pushes. But all that is dependant on reasonably good swing mechanics.

Make sure that the club head is not getting behind your hands during the backswing..

 

I figured it's something in my swing and not lie angles. Most of the time I hit reasonably playable shots and since getting fitted (about a year ago), I hit more GIR better approaches and generally better contact. Thank you for your response.

[Gargoyle]

I agree with getting stuck . my so just went through the same deal. Turned out he was early extending (humping the goat) he was stuck,blocked out. It was exactly what you described, block straight right, no curvature at all..or 40 yard hook. Immediately went away when he stayed in his posture, and just rotated.

[Gargoyle]

Oh,by the way, he's also

- 2 flat.

[grochol17]

You are correct that lie angle at address doesn't matter, only what is happening at impact.

 

Changing the lie angle on an iron doesn't open or close the face. The reason the ball goes offline is if the lie angle is not right for the person hitting the shot. In short, if the lie angle is too upright for the golfer, the toe is off the ground at impact and the face, because of the loft, will point left of the target, even if the club head is square to the target line. If the club is too flat for the golfer, at impact the head will be toe down and the face will point right of the target.

 

As for your lie angle, it doesn't matter if you're 2* flat or 2* upright compared to some arbitrary standard picked by the manufacturer... all that matters is that the sole of the club is flush to the ground at impact.

[jpdx]

TBH, I'm not sure why I thought lie angle would be an issue before I started looking into it. I just started googling and searching on the forum. I guess I just didn't want the issue to be with my swing and was trying to find an excuse.

 

What might be a good way to check lie angle without a lie board? Any diy type of measuring? I heard marker and a white board as an idea. Thanks for answering.

[Jagpilotohio]

As grochol said, Adjusting the lie has nothing to do with opening or closing the face, it adjusts how the ball launches off the face.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

The change in d-plane also changes the spin axis so it can effect the shape as well as the launch direction - but in both cases the effect is generally small and doesn't produce dramatic changes.

 

What might be a good way to check lie angle without a lie board? Any diy type of measuring? I heard marker and a white board as an idea. Thanks for answering.

 

That would be a white board marker (don't need the actual white board). Draw a straight line on the ball (as you would a line to assist in putting) - position the ball (a small tee helps here) with that line with a vertical orientation and in the position where the club face will strike the ball. Hit the ball and look at the mark left on the face from impact.

[Tparker10]

TBH, I'm not sure why I thought lie angle would be an issue before I started looking into it. I just started googling and searching on the forum. I guess I just didn't want the issue to be with my swing and was trying to find an excuse.

 

What might be a good way to check lie angle without a lie board? Any diy type of measuring? I heard marker and a white board as an idea. Thanks for answering.

 

Skip to about 2 minutes in for a visual to what Stuart mentioned above.

[Tcann32]

Try a more upright angle, since I would be surprised if you weren't getting stuck. Something I'm accustomed to.

 

If your clubs are flatter, it already sets up to swing a little flatter, and will make it worse, in my experience. I'm 5'10 and play std length irons that are a little upright, if anything. If you were hitting a pull hook, then the heel is probably digging, but if you're blocking it and hooking it more, you're getting stuck.

[onlyomar]

So perhaps I'm just not understanding Lie angle and how it affects ball flight.

 

I'm fitted on my gamer set to 2* flat.

 

I have 2 main misses: over draw/hook or a push block (straight flight to the right correct?)

 

I keep reading that too flat should cause a draw/hook and too upright would lead to push block (for a right handed golfer). But my misses would tell me I'm too upright, and at the same time too flat. I'm thinking that my answer actually lies with something in my swing. But before I try to diagnose (youtube, instruction forum here, or pga professional), I thought I'd ask here based on lie angles as I recently have felt that the toe of the club is not flat at address, however I was told at my fitting that the lie angle at address is irrelevant.

 

Thoughts?

 

You have it backwards. A top flat lie leads to pushes. A top upright lie leads to pulls. See the diagram in the post above.

[Howard_Jones]

As grochol said, Adjusting the lie has nothing to do with opening or closing the face, it adjusts how the ball launches off the face.

 

 

 

This illustration shows 2 things at once.

- The face itself points right or left of target when lie anle is to upright or to flat at impact.

- It shows the angle of the spin axis, the ball always spin up 90* from the grooves.

 

That means we both have a face pointing of target line, AND a spin axis who pulls the ball further in that same "wrong" direction.