San Antonio Courses

[J_Birdie]

It’s an effort to improve pace of play.

My feeling is that it will fail and be back to other routing by summer.

The first two tee shots are now harder which will slow pace off the tee and they will lose on F&B.

It won’t stick. But they need to try something as pace of play there is god awful now that’s it’s the second most played course in town. That’s not a routing meant to handle that many golfers. Too hard.

[texasdave]

That's what I figured but you're right about the first two drives...especially the new #2.

If they really want to speed up play they should flatten out some of the greens..cut back some of the trees on the right of the old #4 and get rid of either the bunkers on the right or the water on the left of the old par 5 #18, too small of a run up for most players.

But the greens and uneven lies make it the toughest test of all the city courses.

[J_Birdie]

They’re not removing water. They’re bringing some of it back. Complete range renovation is coming as well.

[texasdave]

More water sounds interesting...that seems like a recipe for longer rounds, not shorter.

The little creek on the left of the "new" #3 used to be a magnet for my draw when I over did it just a bit.

[texasdave]

Talked to the course manager at Cedar Creek yesterday for the first time since they switched the 9’s and he said the switch, for now, is temporary while they study it to see if it speeds up play, just as J-Birdie said.

They can do whatever they want with the 9’s but as long as you have beginners and 100 shooters out there, play will always be slow. I played yesterday, teed off at noon, behind a threesome and it took 2.75hrs for the front side....pulled the plug after that and just practiced my chipping and putting.

[Joselo]

looking at being in san antonio in april for the Valero Open

last year i played brack & palmer cantera, for what i see on your messages Cedar Creek is a great option.

 

which other courses would you recommend?

 

[J_Birdie]

I mean almost every course in the city is fun and usually in good shape.

Both La Cantera courses

Canyon Springs

Cedar / Brack of the ACGT Courses

Silverhorn

Republic

Quarry

Olympia

If you extend out 30 mins from the city there’s even more. Can’t go wrong with the above

[scott_Donald]

Just noticed this thread -

 

I am in Houston but my dad is in town from Scotland at the end of March; We are going to the Valero on the Sunday to watch the golf so I was wondering where you guys would recommend we were to play on the Saturday afternoon(April 4). I have played in Austin and here in Houston but never in SA.

Cantera Plamer was the one I was thinking.

Edit just noticed someone else just asked this above me.

[J_Birdie]

You could do 36 at both La Cantera courses easily. They’re not on site but short drive.

 

Other doable 36s are Canyon Springs / Silverhorn, Quarry / Brack, Palmer / Resort / Cedar Creek.

 

If you’re staying near TPC for the VTO, then it’s a shorter jaunt up to Vaaler which is a nice course in the hill country.

[Joselo]

thanks for sharing these, cant wait to go back to san antonio

[texasdave]

Just a heads up for anyone looking to play Cedar Creek...they put a lite amount of sand on most of the greens.

they are very puttable but just not the best surface.

[CCTxGolf]

Hyatt Hill country is another good one to look at the weekend of Valero. 3 nines, all a little different and good quality.

[texasdave]

Ok guys if you can id avoid Cedar Creek for a while.

the greens are terrible right now, especially on the back side..they are sandy and have little splotchy weeds starting to sprout. These are even invading the practice putting green

Also, I’ve played there three times since they switched the nines to try and speed up play and it’s honesty slower then ever.

[nova6868]

I was really hoping they could fix the pace of play at Cedar Creek. I don't play there nearly as often because rounds were taking 5-6 hours.

Flipping the 9s made sense to me because the routing is much better. The new #1 is right next to the clubhouse, and then you come off #9 and go straight to #10. I actually suspect the main issue at Cedar is the difficulty level on the new Back 9. Some of those holes are just brutal for 20-cappers. If you're not really accurate off the tee you are looking for your ball on nearly every hole.

If it were me I would think about widening the fairways and leveling out some of the fairway slope on the new #10, #12, #13, #14, #16, #18. Some of the fairways have so much slope that even with a good tee shot your ball runs out into the trees. Not to mention some of those greens have so many tiers and slopes that 20-cappers are 3-4 putting nearly every green.

A simpler option might be to just move the tees up on most holes. You could make the current back tees a Black championship tee or something.

[texasdave]

Leveling out the greens and fairways would definitely help but I just don’t see the city putting that money into it.

Flipping the nines is just stupid if you think it’s gonna speed up play...on the old #1 a slicers tee shot would most likely hit the slope and kick down towards the fairway; on the new #1 it gets hung up it the trees to the right of the cart path....and then the new #2 is just a long difficult hole and the junk on the right as you get close to the green is a killer for slicers...these holes slow play down right from the start.

Finally,I was talking to the Mgr and he said this move would hopefully increase food/beverage revenue, he said the old way, not enough people would stop on the way to the old #10...well to me why anyone would stop now when you are no where near the clubhouse when you go from 9 to 10...

just a stupid decision.

[J_Birdie]

The cedar flip won’t stick. They won’t spend the millions to flatten out anything. The course is vicious, and getting more and more play. I’m convinced there is no fixing the pace of play issue.

I do know the trail has hard data on the slowest holes and it’s only 4 holes that completely balloon the pace. Another 3 play above “desired pace”

so basically nearly half the damn course plays above the desired 4.5 hours. Maybe we need to set our expectations to 5 for this course lol

 

also Riverside is in bad shape. Brack is great.

 

shape of the course greens are gonna get bad until full grow season and then recover.

[nova6868]

What are the 4 holes that cause the slow down?

[MerryTex]

What shape are Brack and Silverhorn in? I'm going to try and get in a round at either or both next weekend. I've practiced out at Silverhorn but never played the course. I did have a chance to play the Quarry finally on NYE and played well.

[texasdave]

My guess are...the “new” 2, 8, 12, 13, 18

[texasdave]

I haven’t played there recently but some friends told me the city is digging up a lot of the front side at Silverhorn for new water pipes.

[J_Birdie]

Horn is tore up for a water project. Brack was pristine Thursday

my guy didn’t tell me the four holes but my guess is that it’s current routing: 2, 12,13,18

[J_Birdie]

Dominion CC was in solid shape Sunday.

Brack also in v good shape

Riverside not so much

[texasdave]

Thanks for the update on Brack J....playing there Thursday

[huskerturf]

Umm...how does one get to go play Dominion? That would be fun.

[J_Birdie]

I was invited by a pro. It’s a fun little track! It wasn’t as “high-end” as I was expecting. It’s no SACC or Briggs.

[texasdave]

J-Birdie is right, Brack is in really good shape right now and greens are great.

if you have a chance it’s definitely worth the drive downtown to play it.

[J_Birdie]

Yessir.

Brack is basically my home course since it’s 5 mins from my office. They always have it in top notch shape. Even in their “off days” for course conditions it still beats most courses in the area.

[texasdave]

Ok J...if it’s your home course you need to talk to somebody about that tree that’s right in frint and to the left of the 16th tee box!!!!

[nova6868]

Yes please address #16 at Brack. How the hell are you supposed to play this hole from the back tees anyway?

What you can't see on the map is that the tree on the left of #16 is absolutely huge and blocks much of the hole. And it's too tall to hit over.

[J_Birdie]

I hit over that tree all the time.

I was once told the tree is protected by some group or ordinance and this was done to prevent 281 from gutting the course. That’s why 281 bends around the course. Not sure if accurate.

Either way, I think they should cut back the trees on the left to allow a chute to cut it around that big tree. Get used to it fellas, I’ve long barked about it but I think that tree is here to stay