Shawn Clement closing the face 45degrees

[hartman29]

There's been a lot of Shawn Clement talk/videos posted lately. Marketing push????

 

No at least not by me, I just thought it was weird advice and still do. I can see the benifit of a strong grip but to setup the face 45 degrees closed to target line which is how I interpret what he is saying in my opinion feels awful, why not just rotate it square and say play with a see 4 knuckle grip instead.

[hartman29]

Watch some of Shawn's other grip videos. He explains that a neutral grip with a closed face is the same as a strong 4 knuckle grip with square face in dynamic motion when swinging and releasing to the target, not the ball

. I think it's more a matter of preference. I've tried both and prefer the strong grip with square face.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

There's been a lot of Shawn Clement talk/videos posted lately. Marketing push????

 

No at least not by me, I just thought it was weird advice and still do. I can see the benifit of a strong grip but to setup the face 45 degrees closed to target line which is how I interpret what he is saying in my opinion feels awful, why not just rotate it square and say play with a see 4 knuckle grip instead.

 

I believe you significantly misinterpreted what he said.

[Ri_Redneck]

Neutral is back of left hand approximately parallel to clubface.

 

BT

 

So with the loft the strength changes?

Not sure what you mean by that?

 

BT

 

 

 

Neutral is back of left hand approximately parallel to clubface.

 

BT

 

BT - Leading edge or clubface? I've always considered neutral to be the former.

 

IMO, leading edge and clubface are the same.

 

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

There's been a lot of Shawn Clement talk/videos posted lately. Marketing push????

 

No at least not by me, I just thought it was weird advice and still do. I can see the benifit of a strong grip but to setup the face 45 degrees closed to target line which is how I interpret what he is saying in my opinion feels awful, why not just rotate it square and say play with a see 4 knuckle grip instead.

You would doing the same thing. I don't think he actually wants you to play that way, just showing you how your hands should be on the grip in relation to the clubhead.

 

BT

[Cwebb]

Neutral is back of left hand approximately parallel to clubface.

 

BT

 

So with the loft the strength changes?

 

No, he's talking about the "face angle". So looking at the leading edge as your reference angle

[QEight]

Neutral is back of left hand approximately parallel to clubface.

 

BT

 

So with the loft the strength changes?

 

No, he's talking about the "face angle". So looking at the leading edge as your reference angle

 

How do you line the back of your hand with the leading edge? Which part of your non-flat back of the hand?

[dlam]

I'm more of a right handed player so thinking "strong" right hand works better for me and my left hand just matches it This is especially true with irons off the tee for me

[Cwebb]

 

 

How do you line the back of your hand with the leading edge? Which part of your non-flat back of the hand?

 

It's a generalization

[robbohank]

Neutral is back of left hand approximately parallel to clubface.

 

BT

 

So with the loft the strength changes?

 

No, he's talking about the "face angle". So looking at the leading edge as your reference angle

 

How do you line the back of your hand with the leading edge? Which part of your non-flat back of the hand?

 

I've always liked Manzella's definition of a neutral left hand. I guess this would be what I would classify as a "traditonal neutral" LH but I'm guessing how to define neutral these days is open to interpretation.

 

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[dlam]

Thats why these terms are confusing. Depending on the instructor can define strong differently.

 

For me I use the thumb and V as it relates to the top edge

The palm as it relates to the clubface

The back of the arm as it relates to the club head and shaft

[xkilgorextroutx]

Here's an older, lengthy thread about a closed face at address and how it can be helpful, including input and a video from Martin Chuck along with some older Clement video links on the same subject - http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/376387-edit-a-story-for-all-golfers-struggling-to-hit-solid-shots/

[80sFredriksson]

Here's an older, lengthy thread about a closed face at address and how it can be helpful, including input and a video from Martin Chuck along with some older Clement video links on the same subject - http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/376387-edit-a-story-for-all-golfers-struggling-to-hit-solid-shots/

 

Cool ty!

[harolease]

The strong vs weak grip is one of the better videos I seen by Clement

The concepts if "brace tilt" and anchoring the swing are very good as well that I don't hear from other instructors

[Dokes]

I don't believe this is "strong grip" question at all. From what I've learned, while holding the club waist high Clement uses a neutral grip while spinning the club face 45 degrees closed towards the target line. At setup, the club is tilted down to the ball,  the club face is then set square to the  target line by the tilt of the body and arms with no additional manipulation of the hands.  It will look like like a very strong grip but in reality it is not. Remember the target is not the ball but well past the ball in the exact direction you want to ball to go.

[hackerboy]

I have actually been doing this for the past 8 years or so. It sounds a lot more dramatic than it is.  I position the club in the left hand, with the thumb in the 12 o’clock position. I then rotate the face to 10:30 with the right hand,  keeping left thumb at 12. That’s 45 degrees face to neutral thumb.  Complete right hand grip. Rotate arms so face is square to target, and all set.  Years ago this solved a habitual push fade, and has led to straight or draw.  If on a given day I’m releasing the club more than usual, I’ll dial it back to 11 o’clock or more.  On the other side using same technique, if one opens up the club face for a bunker shot, 1:30 is 45 degrees, which is standard for me. With no natural ability and tendency to hit right, I find 10:30/45 degrees repeatable, takes 3 seconds as pre-shot routine, and can be easily adjusted for those of us needing a strong grip. 

[bdcava]

On 9/10/2017 at 5:13 AM, 80sFredriksson said:

 

No at least not by me, I just thought it was weird advice and still do. I can see the benifit of a strong grip but to setup the face 45 degrees closed to target line which is how I interpret what he is saying in my opinion feels awful, why not just rotate it square and say play with a see 4 knuckle grip instead.

It’s the same thing, isn’t it?

[80sFredriksson]

45 minutes ago, bdcava said:

It’s the same thing, isn’t it?

It is but also isn’t since at least for me I want to see the face point at my intermediate target and feet perpendicular to the face, otherwise I am unsure of my aim and just feels weird 

[SwingBlues]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:58 AM, harolease said:

The strong vs weak grip is one of the better videos I seen by Clement

The concepts if "brace tilt" and anchoring the swing are very good as well that I don't hear from other instructors

 

I'll add this here, you can check out Todd Graves YT. While it's one plane related, the concept is very similar - tilt at setup and then stable, bent left knee on the downswing through impact. For example at the 8:55 mark:

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, 80sFredriksson said:

It is but also isn’t since at least for me I want to see the face point at my intermediate target and feet perpendicular to the face, otherwise I am unsure of my aim and just feels weird 

 

Aim is fine but if you follow Clement's you have to swing right of the intermediate target to draw, or left of the intermediate target to fade. Static setup is easy, dynamic in-motion club path is hard to master but Clement's use of the intermediate target and "where to send the ball" left or right of the intermediate target is one I really like and it works.

[AmazinBlue]

If you watch many of Shawn's newer videos, his explanation of where power in the grip comes from, it's very simple.  pick up a hammer in your left hand and act like you're going to pound a nail in front of you (down).  Then act like you are going to hammer a nail into a wall on left at about thigh high and look at your left hand position.  trying to hammer a nail with the back of your hand facing the direction the hammer goes won't work.  Hence a very strong grip.  Like a baseball player.  Fred Couples has played with a very strong left hand grip forever and he hits a fade.

 

The 30-45* closed reference is that if you take the strong grip Clement suggests with a straight clubface and then rotate you hands back to "neutral" they the face will be 30-45* closed.