26-1/3.5 found ball

[Augster]

Hello. Had this happen yesterday.

 

Player hooks it left into a lateral hazard and notices which stake it went over. He gets there, makes a quick check, measures his 2 CL's and drops a ball.

 

At that point one of his FC's says he thought the line was 2 stakes further ahead along the LH line. Sure enough the FC goes ahead and the Player's ball is inside the hazard right where the FC said it was.

 

Does the player have the option to play it at that point? I don't think so as a ball was already dropped.

 

BUT, is the player allowed to correct his error and drop at the new, correct, PLC? Thereby abandoning the previous dropped ball?

 

Is he REQUIRED to do so? That is, where he took his drop he got a great drop and a good line to the hole. Where his actual PLC is, it's in a much worse spot.

 

What if the Player elects to play his already dropped ball?

 

Thanks.

[rogolf]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

[cmagnusson]

In regards to the second point about redropping:

 

"20-6. Lifting Ball Incorrectly Substituted, Dropped or Placed

A ball incorrectly substituted, dropped or placed in a wrong place or otherwise not in accordance with the Rules but not played may be lifted, without penalty, and the player must then proceed correctly"

[QEight]

Perhaps I missed something but I thought you answered yourself in the title.

[Augster]

Thanks for the replies. If I knew the operation of the Decision, I wouldn't be asking. My friends thought I was full of it when I told them they needed to drop the ball in the correct place. I couldn't come up with 3.5 on demand.

 

Hypothetical for understanding....

 

After a player takes what may be a "fortuitous" drop, is his best course of action to play quickly after that drop? Once he's hit the ball, then it is later revealed, as in the above, that he was supposed to drop in a much worse spot, it's too late to correct it, right? 26-1/17

 

Thanks for the help. My friends had never heard of this at all. They figured once it's dropped, it's the ball in play regardless of finding the original in a different spot before playing.

 

 

[Sawgrass]

Thanks for the replies. If I knew the operation of the Decision, I wouldn't be asking. My friends thought I was full of it when I told them they needed to drop the ball in the correct place. I couldn't come up with 3.5 on demand.

 

Hypothetical for understanding....

 

After a player takes what may be a "fortuitous" drop, is his best course of action to play quickly after that drop? Once he's hit the ball, then it is later revealed, as in the above, that he was supposed to drop in a much worse spot, it's too late to correct it, right? 26-1/17

 

Thanks for the help. My friends had never heard of this at all. They figured once it's dropped, it's the ball in play regardless of finding the original in a different spot before playing.

Yes, 26-2/17 answers your question. But I'll point out that one must use their best judgement as to where the ball last crossed, so there is (or should be) no such thing as selecting a fortuitous position upon which to drop. So I'd be hard pressed to think about hurrying in order to preserve a drop that you felt was appropriate and for which a subsequent more accurate location might just as easily be better as be worse.

[Augster]

Thanks Sawgrass.

 

The player just had the wrong stake marked in his mind. Nothing malicious.

 

I could see this happening though. As above, player thinks he has the right stake and drops. Before he hits, another FC comes over and says his drop should be way further up. Player doesn't think so, and likes his lie after the drop and elects to play from there.

 

Isn't it basically he-said/he-said as to where the drop should be if the ball is not found and the player is giving his "best guess" as to the drop? Protected by 26-1/17.

 

BUT, if he drops in the same scenario, and gets a terrible lie, then the FC comes over and insists his drop is further up, without finding the ball, can the player use the FC's insistence that the drop should be further up to pick up the dropped ball in the horrific lie and drop further up? Or does the ball need to be found to do so and "prove" the PLC is where the FC said it was?

 

Hopefully the 2019 rules will have this simplified and sorted a bit better as there are going to be way more penalty areas with PLC drops.

 

Thanks!

[Sawgrass]

Augster, your question is as challenging as any can be. It is a mater of (unknown) fact where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. And the player is obligated to make his best effort at identifying that spot. If an unresolved question arises, it's up to a Ref to come to a conclusion, the lengthy process is described in D 34-3/9.

 

It's worth noting that the F/C has no particular authority in this matter other than his ability to testify to the Ref or comment to the player. If the player thinks the F/C had additional valid information as to the location of the margin crossing, I see no reason that he shouldn't make that part of his evaluation.

 

Of course, he could "distort this to his advantage" but . . . that would be wrong. And we shouldn't do things that are wrong.

 

Make your best effort, and all is well. Having a Ref look things over, and make the final decision, shouldn't change a thing.

[nsxguy]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

[QEight]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

 

That is true (26-1/3.5), but it would be interesting to know why.

[Newby]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

 

That is true (26-1/3.5), but it would be interesting to know why.

 

Because he has made the substitution.

The problem is not the substitution, which cannot be undone, but the potential for playing from the wrong place.

[QEight]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

 

That is true (26-1/3.5), but it would be interesting to know why.

 

Because he has made the substitution.

The problem is not the substitution, which cannot be undone, but the potential for playing from the wrong place.

 

Better use the whole 5 minutes then....

[cmagnusson]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

 

That is true (26-1/3.5), but it would be interesting to know why.

 

Because he has made the substitution.

The problem is not the substitution, which cannot be undone, but the potential for playing from the wrong place.

 

As soon as you drop a ball, that action is a declaration of a lost ball and the dropped ball is immediately in play. Rule 20-4

 

"20-4. WHEN BALL DROPPED, PLACED OR REPLACED IS IN PLAY

If the player’s ball in play has been lifted, it is again in play when dropped or placed. A ball that has been replaced is in play whether or not the ballmarker has been removed. A substituted ball becomes the ball in play when it has been dropped or placed."

[Stuart_G]

If was determined to have gone into the water hazard, it's not really lost (and not really a declaration of it being lost - see defn of 'lost' in the rules). The drop is your declaration that you have decided to precede under a specific option for relief from the water hazard. And once that decision is made and ball put into play under one of the valid options, you can't change your mind and use a different option.

[Socrates]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

It might just be in the water hazard and you can quite often see your ball clearly enough in the water to see the identifying marks. Just because you can see it doesn't mean you can hit it or want to hit it. I'm assuming this was the case.

[Sawgrass]

If was determined to have gone into the water hazard, it's not really lost (and not really a declaration of it being lost - see defn of 'lost' in the rules). The drop is your declaration that you have decided to precede under a specific option for relief from the water hazard. And once that decision is made and ball put into play under one of the valid options, you can't change your mind and use a different option.

 

With a new, more accurate reference point being identified, you may use a different option, though not play it from the hazard. Per 26-1/16.

[Sawgrass]

See 26-1/16.

He cannot play the original ball as it lies.

He must correct the ball dropped in a wrong place error by dropping in the right place.

 

He can't hit the original ball where it lies ? :blink:

It might just be in the water hazard and you can quite often see your ball clearly enough in the water to see the identifying marks. Just because you can see it doesn't mean you can hit it or want to hit it. I'm assuming this was the case.

Having dropped a ball, the right to play from the hazard is obviated irrespective of whether you can identify it or not, or whether you wish to play it or not.

 

Edit: I should have added, "As long as it was KVC the ball was in the hazard when the initial drop was made."

[Stuart_G]

If was determined to have gone into the water hazard, it's not really lost (and not really a declaration of it being lost - see defn of 'lost' in the rules). The drop is your declaration that you have decided to precede under a specific option for relief from the water hazard. And once that decision is made and ball put into play under one of the valid options, you can't change your mind and use a different option.

 

With a new, more accurate reference point being identified, you may use a different option, though not play it from the hazard. Per 26-1/16.

 

Then I guess it's more equivalent to the case with an immovable obstruction, where once you pick up your ball (decide to take relief) you can't change your mind and replace the ball where it was.