Found ball question, time allotment, ID

[Augster]

Hello,

 

Player hits his ball into the left rough. We have a pretty good idea where it is. I start timing when the player gets to the point it’s ML2B and starts searching. We search for about 4 minutes, and player takes the cart back to the tee.

 

We continue to look and one of our FC’s finds the player’s ball with 20 seconds left on the clock. We don’t “know” it’s his ball but it’s a ball in the area we were looking. Player is on the tee and addressing his new ball. We try to wave at him to come ID the ball, but because we don’t want to yell in his backswing in case it isn’t his ball AND there are at least 3 other groups within earshot that wouldn’t appreciate yelling (2 Greens and a teebox), we don’t yell.

 

The player hits his ball from the tee then drives over to us as we wave him over. He ID’s the ball as his first ball.

 

Which is the ball in play?

 

We definitely found “a ball” within the 5 minutes. We weren’t able to contact the player to come ID the ball before he hit “3 from the tee”. I know he gets nearly unlimited time to ID a possible found ball (ball in a tree etc.), but does he need to be contacted before he actually strikes his new ball from the previous spot?

 

Thanks!

[Colin L]

When you put another ball into play under stroke and distance at the place where you played your previous stroke, your original ball is lost. The ball is in play a) when you make a stroke at it when playing from the tee or b) when you drop it when playing from elsewhere.

 

See Decision 27-1/2

 

http://www.usga.org/...sion-27,d27-1-2

[Sawgrass]

In addition, a provisional from the tee is not permitted since the player had gone forward to search:

 

27-2a/1.5

 

Meaning of "Goes Forward to Search"

 

Q.Under Rule 27-2a, when is a player considered to have gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?

 

A.A player will be considered to have gone forward to search when he has proceeded more than a short distance towards the place where his original ball is likely to be. As the purpose of Rule 27-2a is to save time, the player is permitted to go forward a short distance before determining that it would save time to return promptly to play a provisional ball. As a guideline, a player should be considered to have proceeded more than a short distance, and therefore to have gone forward to search, if he has proceeded more than approximately 50 yards. However, this guideline does not preclude a player from playing a provisional ball when he has proceeded more than a short distance for another specific purpose, such as to retrieve a ball or a different club to play a provisional ball, or to confer with a referee.

[Augster]

Really?

 

So even though we found a ball but could not call out to him for etiquette reasons, he’s taking a lost ball? 27-1/2 really clears that up.

 

Now this enters into Ethics and Etiquette. Which I really don’t like. Nothing should be so important as to breach etiquette IMO.

 

He’s 230 yards from us and we see he’s teed another ball and is starting to address it. 250 yards and left is the previous green with people putting. 215 yards and right is the 5th green with nobody putting but about 80 yards to the right the players on the 5th tee are about to hit.

 

Yelling to a player from that far away is likely going to mess up someone else’s swing. For sure.

 

Ethically, if it’s my partner, I yell for sure. Am I required to yell for an opponent? Or for an FC?

 

At what point is good etiquette the right choice as opposed to possibly saving, or costing, a player 2 shots?

 

Thanks for the answers.

[finleysg]

Really?

 

So even though we found a ball but could not call out to him for etiquette reasons, he's taking a lost ball? 27-1/2 really clears that up.

 

Now this enters into Ethics and Etiquette. Which I really don't like. Nothing should be so important as to breach etiquette IMO.

 

He's 230 yards from us and we see he's teed another ball and is starting to address it. 250 yards and left is the previous green with people putting. 215 yards and right is the 5th green with nobody putting but about 80 yards to the right the players on the 5th tee are about to hit.

 

Yelling to a player from that far away is likely going to mess up someone else's swing. For sure.

 

Ethically, if it's my partner, I yell for sure. Am I required to yell for an opponent? Or for an FC?

 

At what point is good etiquette the right choice as opposed to possibly saving, or costing, a player 2 shots?

 

Thanks for the answers.

 

I think the lesson for the player is use your full 5 minutes.

 

As for your group, you did what you could, but it really is on the player. I suppose you could have grabbed your towels and signaled using flag semaphore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore

[rogolf]

Really?

 

So even though we found a ball but could not call out to him for etiquette reasons, he's taking a lost ball? 27-1/2 really clears that up.

 

Now this enters into Ethics and Etiquette. Which I really don't like. Nothing should be so important as to breach etiquette IMO.

 

He's 230 yards from us and we see he's teed another ball and is starting to address it. 250 yards and left is the previous green with people putting. 215 yards and right is the 5th green with nobody putting but about 80 yards to the right the players on the 5th tee are about to hit.

 

Yelling to a player from that far away is likely going to mess up someone else's swing. For sure.

 

Ethically, if it's my partner, I yell for sure. Am I required to yell for an opponent? Or for an FC?

 

At what point is good etiquette the right choice as opposed to possibly saving, or costing, a player 2 shots?

 

Thanks for the answers.

 

My practice is to go into the middle of the fairway (walk or drive) and waive to him. Being in the middle of the fairway within range usually stops someone from hitting their ball. Heck, as a referee, I've even driven down the middle of the fairway from the landing area to the tee to prevent a breach of the Rules by a player on the tee.

[mneumann]

It's not out of the question he could hit his second tee shot into one of the groups on the other holes and have to yell fore in their backswing.

 

Just yell ball really loud and hope he hears you. Other groups can deal. Stuff happens. I wouldn't start going bananas screaming at him but just one good yell should take care of it.

 

It's also a little on him if he's not watching for you to wave for a found ball before he hits.

[Newby]

If he hadn't been replaying from the tee, his replacement ball would have been in play as soon as he dropped it. Shouting wouldn't have helped.

[Augster]

Here’s an add to this story/scenario...

 

Same guy today. We’re following him today. Hits his tee ball toward trees. Searches for 2 minutes and then comes back to the tee. He says:

 

“I’m hitting a provisional while those guys keep looking for my first one” meaning the other guys in his group.

 

I tell him that I had it on good authority that firstly, it can’t be a provisional as he already went forward to search. And secondly, if he hits that ball, it’s his ball in play regardless if the other guys find his ball. They could be standing over it right now waiting for you to drive back, but if you hit the tee ball, that’s your ball in play.

 

Crickets and a glazed over look. He says, “That’s not right” and hits his “provisional”. :)

 

Just a casual round.

 

But I’m trying to get him to hit a provisional right away when he hits it straight into trees. That way he’ll never have to come back as I can’t imagine him missing the fairway with consecutive swings. He’s just too straight. He doesn’t know the provisional/lost ball procedures because he misses a fairway about every other round and hits a tree about once every 10 trying to cut corners etc.

 

Thanks for the help and clarifications.

[Swisstrader98]

Heres an add to this story/scenario...

 

Same guy today. Were following him today. Hits his tee ball toward trees. Searches for 2 minutes and then comes back to the tee. He says:

 

Im hitting a provisional while those guys keep looking for my first one meaning the other guys in his group.

 

I tell him that I had it on good authority that firstly, it cant be a provisional as he already went forward to search. And secondly, if he hits that ball, its his ball in play regardless if the other guys find his ball. They could be standing over it right now waiting for you to drive back, but if you hit the tee ball, thats your ball in play.

 

Crickets and a glazed over look. He says, Thats not right and hits his provisional. :)

 

Just a casual round.

 

But Im trying to get him to hit a provisional right away when he hits it straight into trees. That way hell never have to come back as I cant imagine him missing the fairway with consecutive swings. Hes just too straight. He doesnt know the provisional/lost ball procedures because he misses a fairway about every other round and hits a tree about once every 10 trying to cut corners etc.

 

Thanks for the help and clarifications.

 

That’s why our group always says “you probably need to hit a provisional” if it looks like Ball is headed OB or deep weeds/trees.