Flattening swing plane on the downswing vs. coming slightly over the top

[Yellow Jacket]

Standard advice is to slightly flatten the swing plane on the downswing to achieve a proper impact position. However, if you're used to taking the club a little inside on the backswing, couldn't you come slightly over the top like Brendon de Jonge and still achieve that proper impact position? Is there any downside to this approach? Yes, there's a risk of coming too far over the top, but there's also a risk of coming too far from the inside when you flatten.

[GMR]

Good question, and would love to hear some professional opinions. My personal understanding (which may be completely off) is that the "power moves" we make in the downswing tend to steepen the shaft. Therefore by getting shallow early, we can fire hard without having to worry about getting too steep while doing so. If you are steep early and then lay on the speed, you get steeper and then need a move (generally EE) to get the shaft back on plane. My understanding is also that it is quite a bit more difficult to achieve that desired slightly flat position post-transition after an inside takeaway that loops over the top than it is after an "on-plane" or even slightly outside takeaway, though that's not to say there are not examples of people who have been able to make it work.

 

As to your point about the risk of getting too flat, I think that is generally seen as preferable to getting to steep for a couple reasons. First of all a shallower move through impact tends to result in a bit more margin for error in the strike than a steep one, and secondly (if my above assertion is correct that "going after" the ball tends to result in the shaft steepening) the flatter you are--to a point of course--the harder you can go after it without getting steep and then needing to recover.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

Standard advice is to slightly flatten the swing plane on the downswing to achieve a proper impact position. However, if you're used to taking the club a little inside on the backswing, couldn't you come slightly over the top like Brendon de Jonge and still achieve that proper impact position? Is there any downside to this approach? Yes, there's a risk of coming too far over the top, but there's also a risk of coming too far from the inside when you flatten.

 

Not every swing in which the downswing plane is above the backswing plane, is OTT. Arnold Palmer, Ray Floyd, Craig Stadler, Jumbo Ozaki, etc., etc., all had what Billy Harmon described as ‘in and over’ swings. Mike Malaska has often been accused of teaching an OTT ‘move’, so it’s not something that I, for one, think you need to change.

[Chote konez]

Standard advice is to slightly flatten the swing plane on the downswing to achieve a proper impact position. However, if you're used to taking the club a little inside on the backswing, couldn't you come slightly over the top like Brendon de Jonge and still achieve that proper impact position? Is there any downside to this approach? Yes, there's a risk of coming too far over the top, but there's also a risk of coming too far from the inside when you flatten.

 

Not every swing in which the downswing plane is above the backswing plane, is OTT. Arnold Palmer, Ray Floyd, Craig Stadler, Jumbo Ozaki, etc., etc., all had what Billy Harmon described as ‘in and over’ swings. Mike Malaska has often been accused of teaching an OTT ‘move’, so it’s not something that I, for one, think you need to change.

 

A lot of those players WERE OTT. OTT is just a description of what is happening, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

[PJ1120]

Wasn't Snead a little OTT and hit pull draws?

[Quick Bucket]

No real downside to an over the back swing hand path.

[Over it]

The D.S. hand path is over the b.s. hand path in many good swings including many tour players. Malaska is teaching a steep move of the club in transition not a "traditional" over the top as in upper body going over lower body with club following that move in transition. But a steep club isn't the same as a d.s. hand path outside/over the b.s. hand path in a good swing.

[RichieHunt]

Watch Joe Mayo's videos on the subject 'Understanding Torques and Forces in the Golf Swing.' Dr. Sasho MacKenzie explains the physics behind it and what it and what is not 'over the top.' So it explains what golfers like Miller Barber, JB Holmes, Sam Snead, etc. who look over the top but actually are not over the top.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[olink]

Imo as long as in the downswing, the clubhead path is below the hand path, you're fine, regardless of where either is in relation to your backswing. But it's easier to get there if your backswing is steep than if it'd shallow w/r/t the downswing.

[dpb5031]

In many cases a downswing hand path that is over the top of the backswing hand path can be a shallowing move and provides the player with more room for the arms.