JB Holmes Pace of play (merged)

[sumed]

Can you imagine the poor waiter coming to his table... "Sir, your reservation was for 7:00 PM and our kitchen closes at 10:30... will you be ordering dinner this evening or would you like me to bring you the breakfast menu for tomorrow?"

[Yepyukon]

And yet people cheer for Spieth...

 

I am a fast golfer and play with a fast group (18 holes in usually around 3 hours). However, I have set up for a shot and then waited for the wind to change and ultimately changed m club when it did not...and this was for no money, exemption, lively-hood.

 

Yes, he took longer than he might have otherwise. No, under that circumstance did he do anything that I can say I would NEVER have done.

[EricWGolf]

This isn't regular golf with your buddies. It's their job, there's a lot more that goes into a shot than what's seen on tv. I'm talking to a few buddies right now that just finished playing, apparently the wind was absolutely ridiculous and greens were the firmest they have ever been. I'm always going to be pro player on everything, it's not like he was not doing anything, there was a convo going on between he and BP, plus a huge gust came up. Idk I guess I'm not bothered by it at all, it's part of elite tournament golf

 

Some players play better playing very slow (e.g. JB Holmes, Ben Crane)

Some players play better playing very fast (e.g., Rory Mcilroy, Rickie Fowler)

 

But only the very slow players are permitted to dictate the pace of the rest of the field. They can force the faster players out of their comfort zone and, potentially, cause them not to play as well. Fast players are at the mercy of slow players and must adapt. Slow players are not forced to adapt. They always have the advantage of being able to set the pace that suits their game.

 

When the fast players can force slow players to speed up, you might have a point. But until then, it is an unfair advantage and should be addressed.

[Steele47]

This isn't regular golf with your buddies. It's their job, there's a lot more that goes into a shot than what's seen on tv. I'm talking to a few buddies right now that just finished playing, apparently the wind was absolutely ridiculous and greens were the firmest they have ever been. I'm always going to be pro player on everything, it's not like he was not doing anything, there was a convo going on between he and BP, plus a huge gust came up. Idk I guess I'm not bothered by it at all, it's part of elite tournament golf

 

Some players play better playing very slow (e.g. JB Holmes, Ben Crane)

Some players play better playing very fast (e.g., Rory Mcilroy, Rickie Fowler)

 

But only the very slow players are permitted to dictate the pace of the rest of the field. They can force the faster players out of their comfort zone and, potentially, cause them not to play as well. Fast players are at the mercy of slow players and must adapt. Slow players are not forced to adapt. They always have the advantage of being able to set the pace that suits their game.

 

When the fast players can force slow players to speed up, you might have a point. But until then, it is an unfair advantage and should be addressed.

 

 

Dead on.

[aliikane]

I am really wondering what he was thinking. First taking that long and then laying up. Seems like the only decision was what club to use to go for the green. He could of still possibly got in a playoff if he made eagle. I would like to hear his reasoning. Did they interview him?

[EricWGolf]

I am really wondering what he was thinking. First taking that long and then laying up. Seems like the only decision was what club to use to go for the green. He could of still possibly got in a playoff if he made eagle. I would like to hear his reasoning. Did they interview him?

 

They asked him the question but he’s still deciding between 2 answers.

[DrSchteeve]

What Holmes did was atrocious. But the group was playing slowly before that. Shot clock please. 6 hour rounds are absurd,and don’t come up with the money and the pressure and the wind and all that BS. Players in many other sports have the pressure of a clock, no reason whatsoever golfers shouldn’t have that too.

[ebrasmus21]

I am really wondering what he was thinking. First taking that long and then laying up. Seems like the only decision was what club to use to go for the green. He could of still possibly got in a playoff if he made eagle. I would like to hear his reasoning. Did they interview him?

 

They asked him the question but he’s still deciding between 2 answers.

 

I see what you did there

[xxio]

He was taking extra time hoping the wind would die down.

 

If there are no consequences, imagine every other pro waiting for favorable wind conditions=6 hour rounds.

 

Now imagine Ams following suit=7 hour rounds.

 

Now imagine hacks like me following suit= 7.5 hour rounds.

[grm24]

Did they interview him?

Yes.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1588450-jb-holmes-pace-of-play-merged/page__st__60#entry16759486

[callawayjay]

I don’t even sleep for 6 hours. And I love sleep. There’s no way a6 hour round is enjoyable.

[bbedell]

First thing first.....the tour is accountable. Unless someone gets zipped for slow play...this will become more common

 

When on this earth did people stop being accountable for their actions?

JB should be accountable for his actions PERIOD.

IMO :-)

 

2008

[jmvargas]

i was watching this whole ordeal and thinking to myself that if this were Seve, Rory,Tom Watson, Tiger and specially Phil i would just pound that 5-wood and take it from there..

 

it shows a lack of the confidence which all greats have and which players like JB do not..and probably never will..

 

he was thinking too much about what could go wrong rather than just hit the shot...he certainly has the power to pull it off.

[Dave230]

It's should be construed and enforced as an unfair advantage. If you're doing an exam, and it takes 3 hours, you can't take 3.5 hours to do it when everyone else took 3 to try to write a longer answer or remember something that you forget. You do it within the time frame. I would say that golf should be about performing instinctively and quickly in the moment, but it's not even quickly. 40 seconds to prepare your shot gives you plenty of time.

 

That's why I would like to see some sort of shot clock. When people think shot clock, they think 'oh it's going to have them running up to the ball'. Not at all. Keep it conservative and reasonable in time, and enforce strongly with a shot penalty if they go on too long.

[elwhippy]

Last night's viewing was purgatory. I went to bed and hit record. Holmes and Day need fined for painfully slow play. How can a world class player, with yardage charts, green maps and a caddie take so long to choose a club? Are they on a different planet to the rest of us?

[nichho]

He did the exact same thing in 2015. He came to 18 with a chance to win, striped one down the middle on 18 and then went with an iron lay up. He had a five wood in his hands, there was no or little wind and it was 5 wood all day long. He messed it all up and ended up with par.

 

Jason Day in the group behind had some sort of problem and had to go for the green with a wood to make par and force a play off. I seem to remember him missing the green to the right, hitting a wonderful chip and sinking the putt. He won the play off.

 

JB mumbled something about the best chance for birdie and the win being a lay up and then stiffing a wedge.

 

I remember it because I had money on him to win. When he chickened out I was apoplectic. Last night was no surprise to me.

[JMarq83]

Anybody have the 5 minute video? I’d like to see lol

[imakaveli]

If Noren doesn't win this he can punch JB in the face at the next tournament, terrible behaviour, but the Tour sadly won't do anything about it

[GolfTurkey]

They did just take 6 hours to play. That's a problem.

 

JB needs someone to follow his group with a shot clock and an air horn.

 

I was thinking shotgun and air gun.

[msoderma]

[...] The tour is terrified that a slow play penalty stroke will determine the winner of a tournament and they’re never going to make a substantive change to enforce the rules.

It's just that in this case, it could be argued that the slow play itself "determined" the outcome of the tournament... not that Alex Noren, standup guy as he is, would allude to it - but of course it affects you waiting 5 minutes for a sloth playing partner to decide to hook a layup into the rough. The lack of action from the PGA is f-ing joke.

[pmadden86]

It took him 4 minutes to work out how much $ he gets for 4th spot on his own. Its around $330k. That chump who has $21m in tourney earnings wussed out of the 5 wood and the chance of getting the W for an insignificant amount of money / points.

 

Noren changed from hybrid to 3 wood during this 4 minute wait.

 

You are PATHETIC JB - used to root for you, now 100% against.

[bladehunter]

JB does need to address this.

 

I really think, based on the difficulty he has closing/blowing up on Sunday, the nerves really get to him in the higher pressure situations.

 

Seems like he froze there.

 

Still a fan but with his resources, he should see somebody and work on this. Wasnt fair to his playing partners

 

This is what happened. He froze. Wasn’t on purpose. Wasn’t a pace of play issue all day. They waited on every tee box. All day. He absolutely froze up and then just threw his hands up and hit a horrid layup. He needs to see one of those head guys and work through that.

[deadsolid...shank]

Watching Morning Drive this morning, other pros are hammering him.

 

This one might force the tour to do something. Doubtful, but we can hope.

[lumberman2462]

JB does need to address this.

 

I really think, based on the difficulty he has closing/blowing up on Sunday, the nerves really get to him in the higher pressure situations.

 

Seems like he froze there.

 

Still a fan but with his resources, he should see somebody and work on this. Wasnt fair to his playing partners

 

This is what happened. He froze. Wasn’t on purpose. Wasn’t a pace of play issue all day. They waited on every tee box. All day. He absolutely froze up and then just threw his hands up and hit a horrid layup. He needs to see one of those head guys and work through that.

 

Yep...his mind went somewhere in that episode. WIth his distance he probably has 4 clubs in his bag that could’ve made the distance and his three wood probably does end up long. The wind looked like it kicked up while he was trying to decide...

 

I’ve always been a JB fan and still am - but he’s gonna take some heat over this for a bit.

 

Then it will all blow over and everything will be fine.

[Sean2]

These guys should be allowed to play ready golf.

[Your-away!]

[...] The tour is terrified that a slow play penalty stroke will determine the winner of a tournament and they’re never going to make a substantive change to enforce the rules.

It's just that in this case, it could be argued that the slow play itself "determined" the outcome of the tournament... not that Alex Noren, standup guy as he is, would allude to it - but of course it affects you waiting 5 minutes for a sloth playing partner to decide to hook a layup into the rough. The lack of action from the PGA is f-ing joke.

 

And it wont get better till they penalise someone who has won, or would win, but then not won because he was penalised for being so slow that he was affecting other players, that would definitely speed it up, usually slow play on the pga tour doesnt normally bother me but last night really was painful and felt for Noren

[Sean2]

I don’t have an issue with a tournament being decided by slow play. They have certainly been decided by things a lot sillier.

[braincramp52]

I have to say, in 30 years of watching golf and playing golf that's one of the few times I actually sat there on my couch and felt uncomfortable and irritated. The last time I got that itchy was back when Sergio had to re-grip 30 times for a shot.

[mosesgolf]

Time for a shot clock on tour. Works great in the NBA. Get yardage, factor wind/slope etc hit shot. 90 seconds tops.

[dpb5031]

It wasn't just on #18, he was gradually getting slower and slower down the stretch. He was taking longer to pull clubs/make decisions, and was making what seemed like an infinite number of practice swings.

 

It's worth noting that the more time he took, the worse he played. A good example for us all to stick with a sensible pre-shot routine all the way to the end no matter the circumstances. JB easily should have won. He yanked at least 2 wedges coming home, and also hit a few wishy putts...both clear signs of nerves getting the best of him. Lost all of his flow...