JB Holmes Pace of play (merged)

[johnnypro]

It was horrible.

I would have liked to have seen the announcers make a little bigger deal about it.

Nantz......grow a pair and say something.

Faldo, as I recall, took almost as long to decide between 2-iron and 5-wood for his second shot on 13 at the '96 Masters.

They can help discourage that type of nonsense.

4:10 to hit a lay-up?!?!

[callawayjay]

Make sure you come in within 17 minutes of the group in front of you. If you don’t you get a stroke penalty. The committee will decide who gets the penalty.

 

No shot clock and the onus is on the players.

[jamie]

I found it unacceptable. Some could think him having the brain tumor has affected his processing time but he was just as slow before the tumor.

[thevaporz]

JB the only guy still wearing 1997 pleated pants. Time to update your wardrobe, dude! And stop laying up on #18!

[Dpavs]

I used to think JB was self absorbed and a bit immature.

 

But given his reason for taking over 4 minutes on that shot as his still thinking of winning at that point.

 

I have come to think of him as self absorbed, immature and delusional. So he's progressing in my book anyway. :taunt:

[NorthTexasGlfr]

Make sure you come in within 17 minutes of the group in front of you. If you don't you get a stroke penalty. The committee will decide who gets the penalty.

 

No shot clock and the onus is on the players.

 

I've always thought they should do something along these lines. And just think what would happen if they penalized the whole group if they finished too far behind the group in front of them. Don't you know the slow player(s) would get a real "dose" of peer pressure if they caused other players to get penalized a stroke or two!

 

And, yea, I know that will never happen simply because of the unfairness. But it might be the only way to speed up the slowpokes.

[ebrasmus21]

Don't know if this question has been asked in the last 8 pages but if one of JB's playing partners, on the 18th hole, said "JB what the hell is going on? Hit your damn ball!" would they have been fined/penalized for making that comment. I mean, don't the players in the group have a right to stick up for their own game?

[bscinstnct]

[jmvargas]

......just wondering if anyone has ever asked Noren how this affected him if at all....

[Jagpilotohio]

JB the only guy still wearing 1997 pleated pants. Time to update your wardrobe, dude! And stop laying up on #18!

 

Hey now! Stop that. Don’t be a pleat hater.

 

Some of us like our pleats...I won’t wear them if they don’t have pleats.

[BNGL]

Make sure you come in within 17 minutes of the group in front of you. If you dont you get a stroke penalty. The committee will decide who gets the penalty.

 

No shot clock and the onus is on the players.

 

I think the FSGA does something like this except it's 15 minutes at both the turn and finishing on 18.

[WHC888]

[bscinstnct]

 

Wilssonnnnnn!!

[hurricanes7]

im not that good, and i definitely try to hit a hybrid onto that green in that situation

[MidwestGolfBum]

......just wondering if anyone has ever asked Noren how this affected him if at all....

 

I'm not sure that anybody has, but my guess is that he would take the high road and just say something to the effect of "he was out there trying to make the best decision to try to give himself a chance to win" and not say "yep, he really screwed me there. Without that, I may have been able to win" but that's purely a guess.

[BNGL]

FWIW I do think play could be sped up obviously it can get slow at times. And the tour is aware of the problem, as someone said it is discussed every year, but I'm not an official, I offer my opinion as a player who understands the intricacies of what goes into playing at an elite level. I know it's discussed amongst guys like Mark Russel, Peter Dachisen, Hal Geyer, Rob Keller to name a few. That's one thing that's a topic at every orientation for new players.

 

For the people that say make a decision you're so talented or imagine telling the marshal waiting for the ideal conditions...you're never going to convince me that those two are the same. Again I don't talk to JB or Brandon at all, he used to loop for Josh Teater (Teter?) awhile back so I'm kinda familiar with BP. In my opinion he has three clubs that can get there, 3 wood, 5 wood, and I think he can cover with a nutted iron. He made a business decision, and I would have loved to see him go for it, 3 wood comes in too hot and ends up where Alex did, 5 wood is the club but stopping on the correct section of the green is tough, really tough to get a decent look at legitimately making an eagle putt. (Which is why I have always thought to put the flag more in the back, I think you could see more exciting looks at eagle to tie or win etc I think Nick even alluded to it in the coverage) An iron in that situation brings too many bad things into play. And with it being the third event of the season for JB, I understand the economics of his play. 3 FedEx Cup points and only 18k on the season so far? Yeah he'll get some starts on past champion status, but you don't go broke trying to make a profit. Every dollar counts, and if you make the decision that you cannot win this time a player then has to focus on what can I do instead to maximiz my earnings for this event to set up and secure my future? We can say all we want 21 million so far, but who knows if he made bad investments or was screwed out of it a la Henrik Stenson.

 

Ps I hate getting pulled back into this thread, because I know I can't win. I'm not tying to argue or call anyone out, just trying to offer a different perspective on an issue.

[Malvern]

+ anybody yelling mashed potatoes needs to be banished not just from golf, but from this country, for the remainder of their pathetic lives.

 

You aint getting off that easily, the rest of the world has no interest in them. You made 'em, you keep 'em. :D

 

Holmes is a noted snail, this stuff has been building for years and he is bearing the brunt. I always thought if the Tour didn't do something than the players would force some change however the last Tour Advisory Council had Furyk as chairman and also Ben Crane and Jason Day involved. At that point you give up.

 

To this day I never know why Sabbatini copped so much grief for walking on Crane, should have been applauded.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

I agree, kudos to Rory. One month ban from the tour for JB. Next time make it 6 months. Looking forward to a shot clock, maybe instead of penalty strokes, ban from competition.

[Big Ben]

JB the only guy still wearing 1997 pleated pants. Time to update your wardrobe, dude! And stop laying up on #18!

 

Hey now! Stop that. Don’t be a pleat hater.

 

Some of us like our pleats...I won’t wear them if they don’t have pleats.

Pleats are nasty man! BB

[Bad9]

+ anybody yelling mashed potatoes needs to be banished not just from golf, but from this country, for the remainder of their pathetic lives.

 

You aint getting off that easily, the rest of the world has no interest in them. You made 'em, you keep 'em. :D

 

Holmes is a noted snail, this stuff has been building for years and he is bearing the brunt. I always thought if the Tour didn't do something than the players would force some change however the last Tour Advisory Council had Furyk as chairman and also Ben Crane and Jason Day involved. At that point you give up.

 

To this day I never know why Sabbatini copped so much grief for walking on Crane, should have been applauded.

 

I don’t know why a Day doesn’t get called out for his pace of play. He may not take 4 minutes on a shot but he’s brutally slow.

[Potatohead]

I'm reminded of Faldo on the 13th at Augusta in 1996 when he destroyed Norman. Second shot from about 220, took forever debating between a 5 wood and 2 iron. Eventually striped the two iron into the heart of the green. I immediately thought of that once he was criticising JB yesterday, but the difference was he pulled it off and didn't chicken out.

 

 

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It was horrible.

I would have liked to have seen the announcers make a little bigger deal about it.

Nantz......grow a pair and say something.

Faldo, as I recall, took almost as long to decide between 2-iron and 5-wood for his second shot on 13 at the '96 Masters.

They can help discourage that type of nonsense.

4:10 to hit a lay-up?!?!

 

Didn't read the thread heyyyy

[KirkNo-yes]

My take is that had this been an isolated event for JB then maybe he would get a pass. it could possibly be justified in that he was in the "moment" and trying to win or whatever. The problem is this ISN'T an isolated event for JB. he is a known slow player and honestly doesn't seem to care or try to improve. It's completely unsportsmanlike conduct to me that 1. he did this yesterday and 2. he hasn't come out and either justified it more than he has or apologized and said he wasn't trying to effect others. honestly if he came out and said "Look, I locked up and mentally was having a tough time pulling the trigger. my game isn't what it use to be and I want win, I want to be out here and not have to fight right now just to get in each tournament". Hell if he would have said that he might have gained some sympathy. Instead he hasn't really said anything other than what shot's he was deciding on which in my mind is him justifying the whole thing. The Tour needs to say something to him and address it to the rest of the players.

 

As for people going after Spieth,at least his situation was one where a complicated ruling was involved and in case people have forgotten he addressed his slow play at the beginning of last year and said, " I know I am slow and I am going to try my hardest to play faster". THAT is being a good sport and considerate to others in the game. This isn't the same as JB.

 

I'm really disappointed that JB did this but in all honesty I think it wasn't totally on purpose. I think as others have pointed out, he is mentally breaking down. I have played elite amateur golf for a long long time and have seen situations like this and it's painful. It effects everyone in the group and players behind the group. If he is struggling to pull the trigger he needs to address it off the course (if he isn't already) and start trying to get faster. He is quickly losing people in his camp and as a sponsor, that is something you are NOT particularly fond of. If he wants to do some "economic" calculations then he needs to see that part as well. The more he acts like this, the longer he takes to address it publicly and privately then the longer he will be considered a nuisance and sponsors don't want to put money to that.

[jsmil4901]

Shot clock, enforce it. One warning, then DQ. That would get their attention.

[manku]

I despise slow play, but as a TV viewer, you really don't notice the slow play (at least until JB on 18)...the round didn't seem to be taking any longer than any other tournament. Maybe it's because I was so steamy at JB making three bogeys in a row...I had him to win at 80-1!

 

Until people stop watching on TV, my guess is nothing will change.

[DrSchteeve]

I despise slow play, but as a TV viewer, you really don't notice the slow play (at least until JB on 18)...the round didn't seem to be taking any longer than any other tournament. Maybe it's because I was so steamy at JB making three bogeys in a row...I had him to win at 80-1!

 

Until people stop watching on TV, my guess is nothing will change.

 

Disagree that slow play wasn't noticeable until 18 - it was noticeable, just not acutely painful, until 18. That 3 some was glacial for several holes prior to 18, and it wasn't just JB. And yes, Jason Day can be a problem as well.

[DrSchteeve]

Am I the only one that has e-mailed the PGA Tour (and Jimmy Walker)?

[Maton12]

......just wondering if anyone has ever asked Noren how this affected him if at all....

 

His was a hard second shot to get to the green in two and stop, knowing full well the grandstand would give him a drop regardless

 

Still a classless act from JB though

[buckeyefl]

And nothing will happen to change slow play. More players and the tour defending and making excuses even to the point of saying we need to start fixing it at the Jr level. Priceless. Ball less wonders. Credit to the announcer who called them out on pointing to the Jr game and noting if they followed the POP policy of the AJGA they wouldn't be having this conversation.

[LeoLeo99]

The PGA Tour is an entertainment product and at this point the vast majority of its income is from television. If it tv ratings decline so will its income. The glacial pace of play is not entertaining and IMHO will contribute to a reduction in ratings.

 

If it's Tiger taking a long time, you get excited because you know something unbelievable might be about to happen. With JB.... Just hit the ball, already.

[buckeyefl]

Rosaforte spoke to JD and it sounds like it was "oh I didn't realize" (problem 1 easily fixed with a multiple stroke penalty he won't forget) followed by multiple "buts". Some of these guys, including the PAC members are delusional.