JB Holmes Pace of play (merged)

[hawkeye3743]

Methinks JB lost a lot of fans with that BS move. He had no shot at the green and after what they said was 4min and 10sec he laid up, what a farce and in the process icing his playing partners. But, what happened to the 50 second rule for the first to hit. The PGA Tour is a joke when it comes to enforcing the rules, the rule is there USE IT!!!! It was as much the rules guy fault as JB, why follow the rules if it is not enforced. AT any rate I wish no bad for JB, but this was pitiful and a total slam.

[Barfolomew]

Didn't read whole thread to see if mentioned but can Noren yell across fairway that he's gonna hit while they decide so he doesn't get iced?? or is that against rules

 

Its also not completely self serving as you allow JB to figure it out....we do it in ready golf if someone skulls a chip back over green I'll say I'll putt so you don't have to rush on your next chip

[Qwiklap]

For some reason, JB decided on a pay check instead of trying for a win. Even though he was 2 behind, he could have chanced the shot for a possible try at eagle and be in the playoff. With all the talent that's out there, given the chance for a win does not come often.

 

In his defense -- if he had bogied the hole (like Noren did the next day) what would that have cost him in terms of winnings? A two shot swing that would have been. I have to imagine it was substantial.

 

There is no reason or defense for his pace of play however. I heard the announcer say that the round was over 6 hours long.

[QuigleyDU]

would love for the tour to do something about it. but they wont. lock it up.

[golfer07840]

Hey bladehunter...it's "affected", not "effected".

 

Sincerely,

 

Your High School English Teacher :)

 

High school english teachers tend to be....

 

 

Never mind ; )

 

Meantime

 

Go JB!

 

I saw TW waiting 20 minutes for other guys to clear out. Groups were stacked up all day.

 

Now, is JB a little deliberate?

 

Well, sure.

 

He should work on that, I agree.

 

Since they are playing in Phoenix and you mention Tiger, thought I'd ask: How long did Tiger wait until the crowd removed the boulder for him? (Which is ridiculous in of itself.)

[Darth Putter]

I'm trying to imagine Jack Nicklaus with all the modern detailed information. He might take eight hours to play a round of golf.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, back up. Was the Golden Bear a slow player? This is a legit question I'm only a kid.

 

Jack invented slow play. All the younger pros saw how meticulous he was and .... here we are.

 

which is probably how the tour got itself in a pickle. no way were they going to penalize jack and make him into a villain. and since they didn't do it to jack, they didn't do it to anyone.

 

tiger was slow too wasn't he? i remember seeing something about his average time per shot WRT where he was, and he kept an average pace until he got around the green, where he took forever. which i think is how jack was too...though i'm too young to have ever seen him.

 

20 handicaps emulate jack and tiger, courses get bigger and tougher, greens get faster.....and now we've got 5hr rounds as the norm.

 

Jack was penalized two shots for slow play in the 1962 Portland Open. That was when he was a new player of course. Trying to imagine Jack with one of those new green maps.....*shudder*

 

Jason Day had a news conference with Jack a few years ago and when he was asked about how he emulated him on the course, he quipped that he had emulated Jack's pace of play and got fined.

 

Tiger was slow and now Jordan is slow. The only hope may be players getting AI upgrades to instantly process information so they can just walk up to the ball and hit it with no delay.

[Hit em good]

I always thought seemed like a good guy, but this changes that. I consider his delay to be very selfish and discourteous to the other players. The least he could have done was acknowledge it to the other players of the fans who were waiting.

I now put JB in the small category of golfers I consider to be an Word not allowed. (along with Poulter, Sergio, and a couple others).

Hit em good

[bscinstnct]

Hey bladehunter...it's "affected", not "effected".

 

Sincerely,

 

Your High School English Teacher :)

 

High school english teachers tend to be....

 

 

Never mind ; )

 

Meantime

 

Go JB!

 

I saw TW waiting 20 minutes for other guys to clear out. Groups were stacked up all day.

 

Now, is JB a little deliberate?

 

Well, sure.

 

He should work on that, I agree.

 

Since they are playing in Phoenix and you mention Tiger, thought I'd ask: How long did Tiger wait until the crowd removed the boulder for him? (Which is ridiculous in of itself.)

 

This boulder?

 

 

 

 

Pretty big, looks like it took a while....

 

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

[buckeyefl]

Add JT to the clueless wonders. "There was no one behind them."

[tmacgolf63]

the masters slow play penalty was not issued by pga tour.... the last slow play penalty was given at 2017 zurich classic team format.... i was caddying for a PGA of america club pro and brian campbell and his partner were given a slow play penalty. the problem is the slow play rule is not enforced on all players and groups. the top players in the world will never get a slow play penalty. the rules officials do allow wind and weather to some degree but not 4 mins. I sat in and listened to the pga rules official give the penalty in 2017. Its just a rule that will never be enforced like it needs to be

[Londoner]

Hey bladehunter...it's "affected", not "effected".

 

Sincerely,

 

Your High School English Teacher :)

 

High school english teachers tend to be....

 

 

Never mind ; )

 

Meantime

 

Go JB!

 

I saw TW waiting 20 minutes for other guys to clear out. Groups were stacked up all day.

 

Now, is JB a little deliberate?

 

Well, sure.

 

He should work on that, I agree.

 

Since they are playing in Phoenix and you mention Tiger, thought I'd ask: How long did Tiger wait until the crowd removed the boulder for him? (Which is ridiculous in of itself.)

 

This boulder?

 

 

 

 

Pretty big, looks like it took a while....

 

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

I think that was the single most stupid ruling I have ever seen on a golf course. Closely followed by tv evidence being accepted as proof a ball was Phils, because he couldnt positively identify it.

[Ignatius Reilly]

For some reason, JB decided on a pay check instead of trying for a win. Even though he was 2 behind, he could have chanced the shot for a possible try at eagle and be in the playoff. With all the talent that's out there, given the chance for a win does not come often.

 

In his defense -- if he had bogied the hole (like Noren did the next day) what would that have cost him in terms of winnings? A two shot swing that would have been. I have to imagine it was substantial.

 

There is no reason or defense for his pace of play however. I heard the announcer say that the round was over 6 hours long.

 

Two shots would have moved Keegan Bradley up into 4th place and put JB in a 3-way tie for 5th.

 

Rough math gives almost $80,000. ($251k instead of the $331k he won).

 

Not chump change. But that doesn't matter. Regardless of the amount, he just can't take as long as he feels like.

[sdandrea]

We all agree on slow play..

 

But when someone actually calls another player out and hits out turn, he gets crucified...

 

Anybody remember Sabbatini and Crane...

 

FWIW I think Rory had every right to hit up when crane was taking 3 minutes a shot and had them in the clock third hole of the round...

By the 17th(if memory serves) sabbatini had enough...

 

Guess what, it sped Ben crane up a bit...granted he is still slow but not glacial as he was in those days

 

Noren was in a lose/lose thanks to JB’s completely ridiculous behavior....

And JB remains shameless and unapologetic which is disappointing because I want to like him...

 

-Chris

 

I approached JB Holmes after a practice round at Congressional some years back. He was finished and was chatting with his caddie. I waited until they paused and asked for an autograph and he snubbed me, ungraciously. He was a total dick about it. I wanted to be a fan then, but........................

How old were you?

 

93 at the time.

[sdandrea]

We all agree on slow play..

 

But when someone actually calls another player out and hits out turn, he gets crucified...

 

Anybody remember Sabbatini and Crane...

 

FWIW I think Rory had every right to hit up when crane was taking 3 minutes a shot and had them in the clock third hole of the round...

By the 17th(if memory serves) sabbatini had enough...

 

Guess what, it sped Ben crane up a bit...granted he is still slow but not glacial as he was in those days

 

Noren was in a lose/lose thanks to JB’s completely ridiculous behavior....

And JB remains shameless and unapologetic which is disappointing because I want to like him...

 

-Chris

 

I approached JB Holmes after a practice round at Congressional some years back. He was finished and was chatting with his caddie. I waited until they paused and asked for an autograph and he snubbed me, ungraciously. He was a total dick about it. I wanted to be a fan then, but........................

 

Oh, stop cryin.

 

JB didnt give me an autograph!

 

What can I do? What can I do?

 

 

 

Yeah, I considered suicide for while. It was traumatic. Then I realized he's like a lot of dickheads out there.......

[OutBackHack]

We all agree on slow play..

 

But when someone actually calls another player out and hits out turn, he gets crucified...

 

Anybody remember Sabbatini and Crane...

 

FWIW I think Rory had every right to hit up when crane was taking 3 minutes a shot and had them in the clock third hole of the round...

By the 17th(if memory serves) sabbatini had enough...

 

Guess what, it sped Ben crane up a bit...granted he is still slow but not glacial as he was in those days

 

Noren was in a lose/lose thanks to JB’s completely ridiculous behavior....

And JB remains shameless and unapologetic which is disappointing because I want to like him...

 

-Chris

 

Life's too short to try and like anyone who takes over 4 minutes to make a really bad decision and hit an even worst shot.

[Circaflex]

That was rather embarrassing to watch. I understand these guys are playing for tons of money, but good god JB Holmes was beyond slow on the final hole. I think if he had gone for it, rather than yank his layup left into the rough, people wouldn't have jumped on his case as much. 6 hours for a professional round is downright awful.

[bscinstnct]

We all agree on slow play..

 

But when someone actually calls another player out and hits out turn, he gets crucified...

 

Anybody remember Sabbatini and Crane...

 

FWIW I think Rory had every right to hit up when crane was taking 3 minutes a shot and had them in the clock third hole of the round...

By the 17th(if memory serves) sabbatini had enough...

 

Guess what, it sped Ben crane up a bit...granted he is still slow but not glacial as he was in those days

 

Noren was in a lose/lose thanks to JB's completely ridiculous behavior....

And JB remains shameless and unapologetic which is disappointing because I want to like him...

 

-Chris

 

I approached JB Holmes after a practice round at Congressional some years back. He was finished and was chatting with his caddie. I waited until they paused and asked for an autograph and he snubbed me, ungraciously. He was a total dick about it. I wanted to be a fan then, but........................

 

Oh, stop cryin.

 

JB didnt give me an autograph!

 

What can I do? What can I do?

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Yeah, I considered suicide for while. It was traumatic. Then I realized he's like a lot of dickheads out there.......

 

Ha! Good sport.

 

Hey, were you wearing that outfit when you asked him for the autograph?

[sdandrea]

We all agree on slow play..

 

But when someone actually calls another player out and hits out turn, he gets crucified...

 

Anybody remember Sabbatini and Crane...

 

FWIW I think Rory had every right to hit up when crane was taking 3 minutes a shot and had them in the clock third hole of the round...

By the 17th(if memory serves) sabbatini had enough...

 

Guess what, it sped Ben crane up a bit...granted he is still slow but not glacial as he was in those days

 

Noren was in a lose/lose thanks to JB's completely ridiculous behavior....

And JB remains shameless and unapologetic which is disappointing because I want to like him...

 

-Chris

 

I approached JB Holmes after a practice round at Congressional some years back. He was finished and was chatting with his caddie. I waited until they paused and asked for an autograph and he snubbed me, ungraciously. He was a total dick about it. I wanted to be a fan then, but........................

 

Oh, stop cryin.

 

JB didnt give me an autograph!

 

What can I do? What can I do?

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Yeah, I considered suicide for while. It was traumatic. Then I realized he's like a lot of dickheads out there.......

 

Ha! Good sport.

 

Hey, were you wearing that outfit when you asked him for the autograph?

 

Sort of. I had the red plaid version on. That might have been the issue. Maybe JB is a good guy with phobia for senior citizens in costumes?

[JerseyBoy]

Justin Thomas defended the time it took JB at the presser for WM Tourney.

 

Why? don't any of the Journalists ask him about the actual rules in place that govern this?

[Ballhound]

In an interview with the Golf Channel today, Holmes said he wouldn't change a thing regarding how much time he took. Until these guys are docked strokes, there is no reason to adhere to the rules. Time to bring in an independent outside agency to dole out the penalties. Monahan and Slugger aren't going to do anything. If he's not ready to hit on 16 this weekend, he might hear about it from the partyers lol.

[braincramp52]

In an interview with the Golf Channel today, Holmes said he wouldn't change a thing regarding how much time he took. Until these guys are docked strokes, there is no reason to adhere to the rules. Time to bring in an independent outside agency to dole out the penalties. Monahan and Slugger aren't going to do anything. If he's not ready to hit on 16 this weekend, he might hear about it from the partyers lol.

 

He's gonna catch crap on 16 regardless if he's ready or not.

[DrSchteeve]

In an interview with the Golf Channel today, Holmes said he wouldn't change a thing regarding how much time he took. Until these guys are docked strokes, there is no reason to adhere to the rules. Time to bring in an independent outside agency to dole out the penalties. Monahan and Slugger aren't going to do anything. If he's not ready to hit on 16 this weekend, he might hear about it from the partyers lol.

 

He's gonna catch crap on 16 regardless if he's ready or not.

 

Especially if he's between a 5 wood and PW.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I watched it today for the first time. Pretty ridiculous on many levels only to end up laying up, and a crappy one at that. Akin to having a 40 handicap in front of you taking 12 practice swings only to duff it 30 yards.

 

Shame on JB and shame on pro golf.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

Jeopardy theme music on 16 seems appropriate.

[golfer07840]

FWIW I do think play could be sped up obviously it can get slow at times. And the tour is aware of the problem, as someone said it is discussed every year, but I'm not an official, I offer my opinion as a player who understands the intricacies of what goes into playing at an elite level. I know it's discussed amongst guys like Mark Russel, Peter Dachisen, Hal Geyer, Rob Keller to name a few. That's one thing that's a topic at every orientation for new players.

 

For the people that say make a decision you're so talented or imagine telling the marshal waiting for the ideal conditions...you're never going to convince me that those two are the same. Again I don't talk to JB or Brandon at all, he used to loop for Josh Teater (Teter?) awhile back so I'm kinda familiar with BP. In my opinion he has three clubs that can get there, 3 wood, 5 wood, and I think he can cover with a nutted iron. He made a business decision, and I would have loved to see him go for it, 3 wood comes in too hot and ends up where Alex did, 5 wood is the club but stopping on the correct section of the green is tough, really tough to get a decent look at legitimately making an eagle putt. (Which is why I have always thought to put the flag more in the back, I think you could see more exciting looks at eagle to tie or win etc I think Nick even alluded to it in the coverage) An iron in that situation brings too many bad things into play. And with it being the third event of the season for JB, I understand the economics of his play. 3 FedEx Cup points and only 18k on the season so far? Yeah he'll get some starts on past champion status, but you don't go broke trying to make a profit. Every dollar counts, and if you make the decision that you cannot win this time a player then has to focus on what can I do instead to maximiz my earnings for this event to set up and secure my future? We can say all we want 21 million so far, but who knows if he made bad investments or was screwed out of it a la Henrik Stenson.

 

Ps I hate getting pulled back into this thread, because I know I can't win. I'm not tying to argue or call anyone out, just trying to offer a different perspective on an issue.

 

Brandel Chamblee, is that you?

 

Haha no it's not. I try not watch those shows.when I watch coverage I always watch on mute, especially when buddies are getting lots of coverage. Those talking heads annoy the heck out of me, the only opinion I respect and listen to is Faldo.

Chamblee actually said after the round Holmes was thinking of Ryder Cup and Fed Ex points. Nobilo and the host of Golf Central (his name escapes me) Basically said "Are you kidding?"

[golfer07840]

...a lot of interesting points being brought up but to me the most striking is that you could have run a mile in the time it took for JB to decide and TWO MILES if that other JD story is true!

 

kinda mind-boggling!!

 

Yes, and now imagine, there are people out there, who seem to really believe, that shorter courses would speed up play...

 

...and that the ball, that would go too far, is the culprit.

 

 

Ridiculous - isn't it?

Please don't go there. That whole thing is a 900 reply topic all together.

[jmvargas]

if he had made a great lay-up and his 3rd shot had a chance to go in he may have been forgiven..

[Rob McHugh]

I haven't read the complete thread, but nor do I need to. Slow play is killing the game, full stop. The Australian Open (Where I'm Calling from - apologies to Raymond Carver ha ha) used to be considered the 5th Major. Now there are courses closing everywhere because young people are not interested. They don't like 'Test' cricket and they don't like golf.

 

Fox Sports here is absolutely no help - they bump the golf for anything handy. Memo to Fox in Australia - we don't need 5 channels of Rugby, we are not all 'boof heads'. Truly, sorry to rant but late last year, they showed the 1st three rounds of one the Women's Majors - and just wiped the last round. No replay - nada. In the guide it was supposed to show - but some under 19's Rugby game was on somewhere - so no golf. That was 18 hours of my life wasted.

 

Between the lousy coverage golf gets here in OZ and slow play by Pros like JB and Day, golf here is doomed in 20 years unless something drastic occurs. :-)

 

Rob

[WidespreadPanic]

I just don't see why it's such a big issue. Yeah, I'm sure Noren didn't like it, but considering it was a 6 hour round, you can be sure Noren took his sweet time on some shots too - JB's was just in the spotlight. JB has had a slow start, and the $ difference between hitting in the water and not hitting it in the water is big. With where that pin is tucked it could easily be argued that he has just as good a shot, if not better, to make an eagle with a wedge. Does JB deserve some slack? Yeah, sure. But he doesn't deserve the level of hate he's getting on this board. I mean hell, Jason Day has openly said he'll takes as much time as he pleases, despite any effect it might have. JB is playing to entertain, but above that he's playing for his livelihood.

[AWE46M3]

That was pretty ridiculous to watch. If he's outside of the Ryder Cup team on points, I hope he doesn't get a Captain's pick. Laying up from the fairway when you could reach, needing eagle to tie the lead, is kind of gutless. If he were a great wedge player, it probably makes sense, but he's not and it didn't. Maybe if he played faster, he would have hit before the gusts started to pick up...