Greater in Number: Vanity Handicaps or Sandbaggers?

[acemandrake]

Which do you think there are more of, "Vanity" (ie: Lower than real) handicaps or Sandbaggers (ie: Higher than real)?

 

I think there are more "Vanity" than Sandbaggers but not everyone agrees.

 

I'd like to make this a poll so if anyone knows how to set that up that would be awesome.

 

:golfer:

[golfgirlrobin]

Where I play, it’s heavily weighted towards vanity caps. Most of the betting/prizes are small enough that folks would rather feed their egos than win a dozen balls.

[DavePelz4]

Vanity.

[Neverfadeaway86]

I would say more people say they have a lower cap than they actually do

[Sean2]

Too many of both.

[ebrasmus21]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

[Justsomeguy]

Vanity.

[Sean2]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

[Big Ben]

Is there money on the line or club championships?

[FlyingLaw1]

Vanity. But just one of each is too many.

[ebrasmus21]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

Yep. I guess the handicap system really drives golfers towards 0. Posting bad scores doesn't do much compared to posting a solid score.

[MtlJeff]

Way more vanity caps. Probably 2/1

[GolfChannel]

Vanity, and it isn’t close.

[linkerpan]

“Recreational” golf entices vanity. “Competitive, or league” golf feeds sandbagging. There are so many more recreational golfers that vanity is greater. I see that many recreational golfers consider normal one or two mulligans a round, plus 3 ft gimmies. To the point where their handicap is as much as 6-8 shots worse than reality.

[LeftyTexan]

It's vanity for the simple fact that "sandbagging" only happens when it comes tournament time or when money is on the line. I say it's the same as "I caught a fish this big..."

[irvtrain]

It depends. If you play in the championship flight, you'll run into guys with vanity handicaps that should be a flight "B" or even "C" flight. I have never run into someone that I would consider a sandbagger at this level. I think you run into sandbaggers in the higher handicap flights but they don't seem to be as prevalent as they used to be. Mainly due to qualifying for year end stuff, you'll need to play at least 3 tournaments etc.

[baseknock02]

Vanity. Way, way more vanity.

[green.tea]

Absolutely more vanity caps than sand baggers. Without a doubt.

[Swisstrader98]

Vanity 100x more than sandbaggers.

 

Reason: sandbaggers are generally found out in relatively quick fashion and dealt with whereas vanity handicappers are a special breed of cat and know how to hide it much better.

 

Further, vanity handicappers are literally just handing me their wallets so I’m not going to make a big stink about it whereas the sandbagged can swoop in a literally steal both money and trophies.

 

Can’t tell you how many vanity hanciappers with claims of being scratch or single digits actually play at more like an 8-10 and then almost without exception are quick to tell me this is their worst round in the last 10 years. I’m like “aw schucks man, that really sucks” and then licking my chops about putting some extra cash in pocket.

[farmer]

Vanity, by far, but that's OK, they're harmless. Baggers, on the other hand, lurk around only to steal.

[Noles]

a lot of both but I think the vanity caps think there are more sandbaggers than there really are.

[Deceptively Short]

In UK certainly more sandbaggers, only because it is difficult to get a vanity handicap. The only real way is to be very good and then not play but then your handicap is not a competition one (if you don’t put in 3 cards in a year). Of course you could always cheat in a competition and therefore submit a falsely low score but this takes the pursuit of a vanity handicap a bit too far I think.

 

Like any system a determined sandbagger/bandit (aka cheat) can deliberately play badly and submit these cards or just play the bare minimum not to standard and maintain a falsely high handicap - difficult to police though, but there is an independent review by the committee annually where they can be adjusted but finding good evidence is tricky - if you can prove they are deliberately manipulating their handicap you can suspend them but again solid evidence is needed.

[HiSpeed48]

Probably vanity, since many golfers don't follow the rules of golf to the T during casual rounds, therefore their scores may be 1 or more strokes lower than they should be.

 

In my experience, few golfers re-tee lost balls. They play them like a drop from a hazard, so that could be 1-2 strokes difference.

[acemandrake]

Vanity 100x more than sandbaggers.

 

Reason: sandbaggers are generally found out in relatively quick fashion and dealt with whereas vanity handicappers are a special breed of cat and know how to hide it much better.

 

Further, vanity handicappers are literally just handing me their wallets so I'm not going to make a big stink about it whereas the sandbagged can swoop in a literally steal both money and trophies.

 

Can't tell you how many vanity hanciappers with claims of being scratch or single digits actually play at more like an 8-10 and then almost without exception are quick to tell me this is their worst round in the last 10 years. I'm like "aw schucks man, that really sucks" and then licking my chops about putting some extra cash in pocket.

 

My experiences reflect what you have seen: More Vanities the Sandbaggers. Vanities only harm themselves while Sandbaggers harm everyone (including themselves...I don't know how they can live with the guilt).

 

It must be more difficult to be a Sandbagger: They would need to be "on guard" at all times & need to remember all their previous lies.

 

I like this Mark Twain quote: If you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything

 

:golfer:

[davep043]

Where I play, I'd say there are far more vanity handicaps than actual sandbaggers.

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

Yep. I guess the handicap system really drives golfers towards 0. Posting bad scores doesn't do much compared to posting a solid score.

Its all a matter of timing. I'm at a spot where some of my really good scores from last fall are being replaced with new scores. I can shoot a pretty good score and have my handicap go up, as the score being bumped off was an even better score. We just notice the handicap dropping, knowing it makes winning a bet tougher, more than we notice the handicap's gradual rise.

[95124hacker]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

You nailed it. You only beat your index ~25% of the time due to how it’s calculated in the first place (average of the best 10 of the latest 20 scores, and 96% of that too.). People think if you’re a 10, that you should shoot 82 regularly. I found the higher your index, the harder it is to beat your index due to the random good rounds vs the typical blowups.

[ebrasmus21]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

You nailed it. You only beat your index ~25% of the time due to how it’s calculated in the first place (average of the best 10 of the latest 20 scores, and 96% of that too.). People think if you’re a 10, that you should shoot 82 regularly. I found the higher your index, the harder it is to beat your index due to the random good rounds vs the typical blowups.

 

Since its infrequent, especially right now, for me to beat my index I try to keep a closer eye on average score per round. I've been on an upward

trend :(

[ebrasmus21]

Where I play, I'd say there are far more vanity handicaps than actual sandbaggers.

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

Yep. I guess the handicap system really drives golfers towards 0. Posting bad scores doesn't do much compared to posting a solid score.

Its all a matter of timing. I'm at a spot where some of my really good scores from last fall are being replaced with new scores. I can shoot a pretty good score and have my handicap go up, as the score being bumped off was an even better score. We just notice the handicap dropping, knowing it makes winning a bet tougher, more than we notice the handicap's gradual rise.

 

For me, a lower index is much more noticeable and a much bigger deal than the opposite. Good point.

[Johnny_Fairway]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

Yep. I guess the handicap system really drives golfers towards 0. Posting bad scores doesn't do much compared to posting a solid score.

 

I agree with this, which I think makes it difficult to know whether someone is a vanity cap unless you play with them frequently. I'm currently at a 13 index and had a round of 105 come off my card at the end of last year and still have two 99s in my current revision.

 

Perhaps one would think I was a vanity cap on those days, but I posted them.

 

Sandbagging seems much easier to sniff out.

[ebrasmus21]

I was a 4 last summer from having about 6 weeks of good play. Now I'm a 12. If I cared to score every single round I'd probably be a 15 at least. :stink:

 

It's funny. You can be a solid 12, and if you have a few good rounds, your HI will plunge, whereas if you have a few bad rounds it doesn't move much at all. Again, it's all about your potential...I just wish I could live up to my potential more often. :-)

 

Yep. I guess the handicap system really drives golfers towards 0. Posting bad scores doesn't do much compared to posting a solid score.

 

I agree with this, which I think makes it difficult to know whether someone is a vanity cap unless you play with them frequently. I'm currently at a 13 index and had a round of 105 come off my card at the end of last year and still have two 99s in my current revision.

 

Perhaps one would think I was a vanity cap on those days, but I posted them.

 

Sandbagging seems much easier to sniff out.

 

I never know who is going to show up. If I play Sat/Sun I could, and have many times in the past, gone 75 Saturday—95 Sunday. In one weekend I could be considered a vanity cap and a sandbagger depending on who I play with.