Pepsi Duck's Golf Thread: Progress...?

[JohnnyMIke]

Sooo...this year's Armed Forces Golf Championship will be held in May, a lot earlier than expected. I recall my first thread from three years ago detailing my “quest” to get my handicap down to 3 in five months so I could try out for the Marine Corps team. I obviously didn’t make it. This has been a goal of mine for the past few years, so here we go again, three years later, with two months to get my April 1 revision down to a 3…

 

I understand this probably seems a bit unrealistic, but I feel quite good about how my swing has progressed in such a short time. Monte recently reminded me that I have a habit of giving up on something too quickly, especially if I don’t see immediate results. The process of self-diagnosing over the past couple months has been at times frustrating, but maintaining singular focus on that darn right elbow has kept me on track. My misses are considerably “less bad,” and I can often use the same beat up ball over multiple rounds, i.e., I’m not driving the ball off the planet! Amazingly enough, keeping the ball in play does wonders to your score!

 

In addition to playing more, I need to get smarter with my limited practice time. The biggest mistake I made in previous years was to focus solely on the full swing and neglect the short game and putting. Not only did my countless misguided range hours make my swing worse, but the rest of my game suffered along with my scores. Lately, I’ve been limiting my after-work range sessions to a small bucket of balls (~30 balls). As soon as the weather improves, I’ll spend more time around the greens working on chipping and putting. I also want to transition out of purely mechanical practice to target-oriented practice. QUESTION: At what point do you feel good enough about your mechanics that you move away from strict mechanics on the range and practice green to mostly target-oriented (or other) practice?

 

I’ve been braving the cold, and in some cases rain, over the past couple weeks to get out to the range and the course. Last Sunday, I shot a 77 at my home course in high 30s weather, on greens that probably hadn’t been cut in weeks, and where my first approach shot landed on the green and proceeded to bounce up over the pin and off the green. I finished birdie, birdie, par (lipping out the birdie putt). Fortunately, I’ll have a chance to play a couple rounds this weekend and get in some quality practice time this weekend with my wife out of town.

 

Thanks again for reading, and I’ll be updating with progress (hopefully positive) over the next couple months as I get closer to that April 1 “deadline”…

I'd say that, with 2 months to post enough really low scores to get that index down to 3, you need to focus on scoring. You just have to be absolutely merciless with the course management and getting the ball in the hole. I mean, gawd, how many guys have you played with over the years who can't carry the ball 240 and have hideous mechanics who are right around par?

[PepsiDuck]

I'd say that, with 2 months to post enough really low scores to get that index down to 3, you need to focus on scoring. You just have to be absolutely merciless with the course management and getting the ball in the hole. I mean, gawd, how many guys have you played with over the years who can't carry the ball 240 and have hideous mechanics who are right around par?

 

Thanks for the response, and you make a really good point about scoring being the priority over mechanics improvement, etc. I concede that there's probably a certain degree of gaming the system, especially since I'm trying to *legitimately* drop my handicap. Obviously, my goal isn't to establish a vanity cap, but there are course management tactics to play to par and avoid big numbers. Luckily, I'll have a reasonable opportunity to play several rounds a week over the next two months.

[Krt22]

If you have a known long time mechanical flaw, even if you work a ton to improve it, it's still something you need to regularly keep an eye on. I've often times grown complacent with my ball flight only to discover my old bad habbit has gotten worse on video.

[PepsiDuck]

If you have a known long time mechanical flaw, even if you work a ton to improve it, it's still something you need to regularly keep an eye on. I've often times grown complacent with my ball flight only to discover my old bad habbit has gotten worse on video.

 

Agreed. Monte identified this mechanical flaw during our first lesson. I still remember the first drill he had me work on...turn back to the top, and then use my arms to swing the club while keeping my lower body completely still...and through all my exploration of different things over the past few years, it all comes back to that first thing we worked on...and he may be correct that the right elbow thing will be something I will always have to monitor and maintain...

[games]

So i recently asked him, how do I get my right elbow more forward coming into impact, and his paraphrased (for effect) answer was, just get your g@$*%m elbow forward.

 

I tried to direct quote Monte’s instructions to me after shank-fluffing three sand shots in a row. Had to switch the keyboard to Wingdings because the Western English keyboard ran out of symbols...

[Krt22]

If you have a known long time mechanical flaw, even if you work a ton to improve it, it's still something you need to regularly keep an eye on. I've often times grown complacent with my ball flight only to discover my old bad habbit has gotten worse on video.

 

Agreed. Monte identified this mechanical flaw during our first lesson. I still remember the first drill he had me work on...turn back to the top, and then use my arms to swing the club while keeping my lower body completely still...and through all my exploration of different things over the past few years, it all comes back to that first thing we worked on...and he may be correct that the right elbow thing will be something I will always have to monitor and maintain...

 

Sounds like me and too much/too early right side bend. At least now if I thin one or have a god awful shank, for the most part by my next shot it will be fully corrected

[PepsiDuck]

So I got to enjoy some pretty bad regression this weekend. After my pretty good round last week and some good work on the range, I came into this weekend with a lot of confidence and excitement. I shot another round in the 70s on Friday, though I noticed a few more foul balls than usual. Fortunately, I was able to scrap it around for a decent score. Then yesterday, the wheels completely came off and I was hitting pull hooks off most of the tee boxes and struggling to hit anything more than a 8 iron, on my way to a 90. Today was just as bad, with pull hooksthat barely got off the ground off the tees and struggles with the swing. The more I pull hooked it, the more right elbow I applied, which made the pull hook even worse.

 

So I had previous scheduled some time with one of the pros at my club, expecting to work on course management and scoring today. Instead, we headed to the range after I had played nine to see what was wrong. The first thing he noticed was the incredible amount of tension I carry in my arms through the swing. Attached picture is of my takeaway...no lack of tension there...so we worked on slow 25% driver swings (which are my nemesis, since I only know one speed...and that’s Hulk Smash...). I was still hitting pull hooks and wipes.

 

Then he noticed that from the top of the backswing, my first move is to throw my arms and right shoulder down at the ball, which would explain the left path with left spin of the ball. I explained to him all my efforts with the right elbow transition and getting unstuck. We didn’t discuss it much further, because he didn’t want to get into technical swing details or mess with what I’d been working on. I appreciated that. We then went out on the course. I lost a bunch of balls because the four holes I played all had trouble on the left... :lol: When we finished up, he wanted me to only work on the tension issue, and I’m not going to lie, it’s VERY different to grip the club so lightly...

 

After our lesson, I went back to the range to figure things out while trying to stay tension free.

[ebrasmus21]

PD - I don’t have any advice... I do enjoy your thread and I hope you keep at it.

 

Brandel wasn’t a fan of jacked-Tiger so maybe stick to Pilates rather than getting huge?? (Just kidding bro, get huge)

 

Anyways, the only point of my commenting was to keep at it.

 

 

[Krt22]

My major swing fault is right shoulder down too early(which raises left shoulder), but it shifts path way right...I then react by closing the face...and snap hooking it. It is possible to get right elbow forward while also keeping left shoulder down longer.

[PepsiDuck]

My major swing fault is right shoulder down too early(which raises left shoulder), but it shifts path way right...I then react by closing the face...and snap hooking it. It is possible to get right elbow forward while also keeping left shoulder down longer.

 

That seems to be my problem. My right shoulder gets out too early at transition, which opens up my body and in turn, sends my path left. Combine that with a stronger than normal grip, and it's understandable why I hit those low pull hooks and pull draws. I can sometimes get the right elbow forward without opening everything up, but it depends on the direction that my right elbow moves at transition. Moving it toward the target is no good, because the right shoulder pops forward. Moving it toward the target line (12 o'clock, or directly in front of me) seems to give ok results, but it just isn't that consistent.

 

And this brings me to part 2 of yesterday's post when I got on the range to figure this all out. My transition intent has been to lead with the right elbow from the top, with the belief that the right elbow motion alone would be enough to shallow the club's plane. I also was under the false belief that I didn't need to "shallow," because I could simply take the club back and then back down on the same plane. I recently discovered that isn't physically possible and that some sort of shallowing is required at transition. This seemingly resulted in some OTT action on the downswing. Late in the range session, desperately searching in my bag of tricks, I started to begin my transition with a subtle left knee move (externally rotating the left knee out) to shallow the club, rather than transitioning with the right elbow right away. Perhaps I'm onto something...

 

Left knee move + right elbow...?

 

 

Also, I'm scheduled to go to Monte's Houston clinic with Hal Sutton, et al. God help them...

[PepsiDuck]

After toiling around the house on my day off, I was able to sneak away to the range for a little while to continue working on the "left knee + right elbow" stuff, and I thought things went really well. I also made sure to incorporate the tension-free stuff into my preshot routine. From today:

 

[media=]

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There are definitely some things I want to clean up from that video...the inside takeaway is probably causing my right elbow to get a little too far behind me at the top, and I can always close up the gap under my right armpit coming into impact. But ball striking on the range was miles better than what I'd be experiencing this past weekend. I definitely feel like I have a lot more room to send that right elbow through impact with the added left knee external rotation than I had with my previous intent of only leading with the right elbow. Here's a side-by-side of a swing from a couple weeks ago that I think illustrate the point, taken about 2 frames after the arms change direction. The left knee on the left side (only leading with the right elbow) looks like it's going to buckle sideways, whereas the left knee on the right (left knee rotation + leading with right elbow) looks like it's in a considerably stronger position. Thoughts?

 

 

[pinhigh27]

yes right is better

 

not sure about the forearm tension. I kinda death grip it too. Everyone talks about being relaxed but you can't create speed without tension and then people also say faster BS= faster downswing. probably want to have a reasonable amount of tension in backswing and then it will increase in downswing

[PepsiDuck]

yes right is better

 

not sure about the forearm tension. I kinda death grip it too. Everyone talks about being relaxed but you can't create speed without tension and then people also say faster BS= faster downswing. probably want to have a reasonable amount of tension in backswing and then it will increase in downswing

 

Thanks for the feedback. I definitely agree with your thoughts on forearm tension. I'm sure there's a happy medium, and I probably have to feel the other extreme to get to somewhere in the middle. The swing definitely feels a lot more....floppy(?)....with such a relaxed grip on the club, though I can definitely feel tension increasing on the downswing, like you mentioned.

 

In other news, I'm going to continue working with the local pro on the actual "golf" part of the game. He made it clear that he doesn't like to get technical with the swing and doesn't want to mess with the swing stuff I'm working on. He knows I have a lot of information in my head, and he wants to simplify the game for me. This will be a good opportunity to engage the right side of my brain when it comes to golf...

 

...I don't think I've ever engaged the right side of my brain....

[PepsiDuck]

Just thought I'd write up a little weekend update...weather wasn't super cooperative, but it was tolerable enough that I could get out both days with all my snivel gear. Since last weekend's little "mini-epiphany" with my left knee + right elbow transition, I'd be able to get out to the range almost every day this past week to work on it. I'd also like to thank glk for his help in one of my other threads regarding the takeaway, which I was able to incorporate this weekend.

 

So yesterday, I shot a 76 and won the net stableford (and some $$$) with a men's group I had just joined at the club. I may have raised some eyebrows playing to an 11 handicap...but no one cares when you're buying the beer. Ball striking was pretty good, though I still had a few low pull hook drives that snuck in on a couple holes. Luckily, the course is short and open enough that I was able to recover. Today, hoping it wasn't a fluke, I waited out the torrential downpour this morning to some decent afternoon weather and shot a 77 (on our other course) on some super fuzzy and bumpy greens that had just gotten at least few inches of rain last night into this morning. I'm feeling pretty good about how everything is progressing right now, while being careful not to get too ahead of myself with expectations. The handicap is trending down to 8.5 for the next revision.

 

As long as the weather holds up this week, I should be able to get out to the range a few times. Pinhigh27 brought up a good point about needing at least some tension in the hands and forearms, and after this weekend, I strongly agree with that. When I tried to be tension-free in the hands and let the weight of the club set my wrists, the swing felt floppy and uncontrolled...and the inside takeaway rears its ugly head....having a little bit of that tension in the hands is necessary to prevent that internal rotation of the left shoulder/arm on the takeaway.

 

Next Sunday, I'll be playing my "tryout" with the captain of the club "A" team, since I'll be out of town during the actual tryout weekend. It'll be at the course I shot the 76, where there's a lot more space off the tee. As long as I can avoid that low pull hook, I am pretty confident I can keep the score in the 70s.

 

As always, thanks for the reading. I'll try to post a swing video this week.

[ebrasmus21]

Keep up the good work, brah.

[PepsiDuck]

So I was able to get out to the range today to continue working on things, and I felt pretty good with the irons. I still hit the occasional pull draw with the longer irons, but all in all, I was content. I certainly feel like I've fixed the inside takeaway, but it still looks like an inside takeaway... :dntknw: Here is video from today:

 

http://youtu.be/Ya_gCvUSdv0

 

 

....and then came the driver...and I'm really glad I was able to get video of this masterpiece...unfortunately, I only got DTL before I ran out of balls...

 

http://youtu.be/sOst2uv0OKQ

 

This is my predominant miss on off the tee...thoughts...?

[PepsiDuck]

It appears I accidentally made the driver swing video private...hoping to get some feedback on that one...

[ebrasmus21]

Looks like a good move, brohiem. What have you been instructed on that takeaway? It seems like an inside move.

[PepsiDuck]

Looks like a good move, brohiem. What have you been instructed on that takeaway? It seems like an inside move.

 

I was never formally instructed on it...it's actually one of the things Monte never touched...yet, at least with the shorter clubs, I can get away with it in the transition...

 

So I'm honestly not sure if it's the root cause of the driver issues...or if those pull hooks are caused by something else...

 

Edit: One thing I noticed on the driver swing is how incredibly flat my shoulder turn is... :dntknw:

[ebrasmus21]

I wonder if the shoulder turn is flat because of the takeaway? I don’t know the answer I’m just thinking.

[Krt22]

I'd say yes, initial takeaway seems ok but wrists could hinge more vertically/earlier. In transition it looks like hands are dropping too fast which is easy to do when your turn is a little flat.

[PepsiDuck]

I wonder if the shoulder turn is flat because of the takeaway? I don’t know the answer I’m just thinking.

 

I'd say yes, initial takeaway seems ok but wrists could hinge more vertically/earlier. In transition it looks like hands are dropping too fast which is easy to do when your turn is a little flat.

 

Hmmm...this is a really good point...I certainly feel like I’m hinging my wrists immediately at the start of the takeaway, but video seems to differ. From the image below, it appears that my wrists don’t start to set until almost P3, after the club has gotten well behind me.

 

 

 

I’ll give it a try tomorrow at the range and post a comparison video...though I have a feeling the swings will still look identical...and still wrong... :lol:

 

But thanks for the suggestion! Just from swinging my plastic toy club in the house, my entire backswing changes if I set the wrists first and then turn back...the swing seems a lot more in front of me as well, ala Jim Waldron’s arm swing illusion...

 

EDIT: By the way, Monte’s plane and release by feel video (and the updated version in his Drive for Dough video) is what more or less guides my current takeaway and backswing...because it’s so simple to visualize and execute...doing the wrist set early completely wrecks this backswing feel when I’m standing straight up...

 

http://youtu.be/-FH5r5_tROU

 

EDIT 2: Hmmm...I might have too much “in” and not enough “up”...

[PepsiDuck]

So I had a chance to work on the takeaway stuff today at the range, i.e, getting the wrists set right away and feeling more 'up' and less 'in'...and it wasn't my favorite... My swing didn't look a whole lot different from P3 to P4, and ball flight was considerably less solid than with my previous "inside takeaway" swing. I spent a little more time with my driver and have a better intent at transition...more 'out' (to the ball) and less 'forward' (to the target) from the top seems to help keep my body from opening up too soon and sending the path left of left...

 

For now, I'm just going to keep going with my "inside takeaway" swing and see what Monte et al. say in June during his Houston clinic...ball striking with the irons is just too good right now to fiddle with things. I just have to get more confident with the top end of the bag.

[ebrasmus21]

Big win for VT tonight

[PepsiDuck]

Big win for VT tonight

 

Seriously!!

[Golfbeat]

I wonder if the shoulder turn is flat because of the takeaway? I don't know the answer I'm just thinking.

 

I'd say yes, initial takeaway seems ok but wrists could hinge more vertically/earlier. In transition it looks like hands are dropping too fast which is easy to do when your turn is a little flat.

 

Hmmm...this is a really good point...I certainly feel like I'm hinging my wrists immediately at the start of the takeaway, but video seems to differ. From the image below, it appears that my wrists don't start to set until almost P3, after the club has gotten well behind me.

 

 

 

I'll give it a try tomorrow at the range and post a comparison video...though I have a feeling the swings will still look identical...and still wrong... :lol:

 

But thanks for the suggestion! Just from swinging my plastic toy club in the house, my entire backswing changes if I set the wrists first and then turn back...the swing seems a lot more in front of me as well, ala Jim Waldron's arm swing illusion...

 

EDIT: By the way, Monte's plane and release by feel video (and the updated version in his Drive for Dough video) is what more or less guides my current takeaway and backswing...because it's so simple to visualize and execute...doing the wrist set early completely wrecks this backswing feel when I'm standing straight up...

 

http://youtu.be/-FH5r5_tROU

 

EDIT 2: Hmmm...I might have too much "in" and not enough "up"...

 

I think that it is not so much wrong wrist hinge but too much forearm rotation in the take away. Try not rotating the forearms (so much).

[moehogan]

Rotate the ENTIRE right arm CW in transition ... right shoulder external rotation + right forearm supination. Squeeze the elbows together while extending the right wrist from P4 to P5.

 

 

 

[Golfbeat]

Rotate the ENTIRE right arm CW in transition ... right shoulder external rotation + right forearm supination. Squeeze the elbows together while extending the right wrist from P4 to P5.

 

 

 

 

The problem is that his right shoulder and arms are already too much externally rotated in the back swing. There is not enough left to come down with. He should first feel more internally rotated in the back swing so that he can externally rotate in the down swing.

[moehogan]

Rotate the ENTIRE right arm CW in transition ... right shoulder external rotation + right forearm supination. Squeeze the elbows together while extending the right wrist from P4 to P5.

 

 

 

 

The problem is that his right shoulder and arms are already too much externally rotated in the back swing. There is not enough left to come down with. He should first feel more internally rotated in the back swing so that he can externally rotate in the down swing.

 

I think he could still have some ROM externally rotating the right shoulder and definitely has ROM in supinating the right forearm. If he has maxed out his ESR at P4, that’s an advantage since he already has that base covered (think Hogan, not Nicklaus). Not everyone necessarily benefits from a big move from trail shoulder ISR to ESR in transition.

 

 

[airjammer]

I don’t believe any of those fixes are going to help. His shoulders are flat as hell at the top. If he pulls down he is dead..if he just rotates he’s dead as well. The only two options he has is to get his shoulders steeper on the backswing or he has to steepen his shoulders immediately in transition a la miguel angel