Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[Obee]

How's THAT for a click-bait title??? ;-)

 

So coming up at the end of May, we'll have a chance to do a (quite) accurate comparison of scores for scratch ams and LPGA players on the same course in the same conditions.

 

The ladies right now are playing the Hugel-JTBC LA Open at Wilshire Country Club in Los Angeles. At the end of May, (Memorial Day Weekend) Wilshire Country Club holds the "Macbeth Invitational," named after its architect, Norman Macbeth. It is one of the coolest, longest running 2-man invitationals in the country. It's flighted, so there are plenty of mid-cappers playing, but there are always a good 30 to 40 or so scratch or below amateurs in the field vying for the "low gross" championship.

 

Wilshire is a fun, sporty, quirky track from way back in 1919. It's about 6550 yards from the tips. Par 71. I was there yesterday and walked the entire course while the ladies were playing. The tees were in same places we play them for the most part. If anything, we play the course a bit longer than the ladies, pushing 6600, whereas they played it from 6450 yesterday. Greens yesterday looked to be 11 to 12+, which is where they usually are for the Macbeth. Very little rough to speak of, course playing firm and fast. Greens yesterday were quite receptive due to some early (and unseasonal for SoCal!) rain. Greens also have quite a bit of movement and front to back slope. They can get nasty and are very tough to putt well.

 

Conditions for the Macbeth will be nearly identical if the last six years I've played are any indication. Format is: Four-Ball, Four-Ball, Aggregate. So the scores on aggregate day are playing the ball "down and in."Based upon prior experience, I'm guessing we'll see that the 40(?) scratch or below golfers will shoot between 67 and 80 on the final day of the tournament, with an average score of probably 74 or 75. Looks like 4-over 146 (it's a par-71) is going to make the cut at the LPGA tournament today, with a full field 2-day average score of about 5-over 76.

 

This is as close an approximation I can think of for a "pros vs. joes" type of thing where the conditions are truly similar. Same course. Same conditions. Played in competition. And it will also give us some insight into the eternal question: "Can a 4-handicapper bean an LPGA Tour Pro" thread from a while back! LOL!

 

I love the LPGA and love golf, period. It's fantastic to see the ladies play a course that I've played many, many times in competition, and I can't wait to see what we can glean from the exercise.

 

And if you're in Los Angeles this weekend, you owe it to yourself to stop by Wilshire CC and check out the tournament. Wilshire CC is a true gem and one of my favorite under 6800 yard golf courses in the country.

[straightshot7]

Playing a 6,500 yard course neutralizes the men's greatest advantage: length.

 

I would pick the LPGA player over the "average scratch" from that distance.

 

At 7,300+ yards I'd take the male scratch.

 

A top D1 male would dominate the LPGA.

 

 

[cardoustie]

Obee .. get some implants and win this thing !!!!

[Sean2]

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

[Obee]

 

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

So do I! Recently played with a top 100 player in the world. She beat A group of six or seven scratch golfers by 2 to 4 shots playing a golf course about 400 yards shorter than we played. She shot 71 from the blues. We all shot 73 to 76 from the back.

 

So, in the context of this thread, what does "not even close" mean?

[Shilgy]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

[Obee]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

[Pure745]

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

So do I! Recently played with a top 100 player in the world. She beat A group of six or seven scratch golfers by 2 to 4 shots playing a golf course about 400 yards shorter than we played. She shot 71 from the blues. We all shot 73 to 76 from the back.

 

So, in the context of this thread, what does "not even close" mean?

 

Was this at Brentwood?

[deadsolid...shank]

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

Must not be too solid scratch players if she's waxing them all. A good, legimate scratch should have several rounds around the course rating. I don't think Meghan is shooting five or six under that rating every time out. I would think there would be several round that "not even close" would be way wrong.

 

Maybe a little personal feeling clouding the judgement a bit? Unless we have very different definitions of close.

 

EDIT: and apologies if I spelled her name wrong. I can't even remember how my daughter in law spells her's (same name), trying to get another one correct is a real long shot.

[Obee]

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

So do I! Recently played with a top 100 player in the world. She beat A group of six or seven scratch golfers by 2 to 4 shots playing a golf course about 400 yards shorter than we played. She shot 71 from the blues. We all shot 73 to 76 from the back.

 

So, in the context of this thread, what does "not even close" mean?

 

Was this at Brentwood?

 

Yeppers.

[deadsolid...shank]

 

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

So do I! Recently played with a top 100 player in the world. She beat A group of six or seven scratch golfers by 2 to 4 shots playing a golf course about 400 yards shorter than we played. She shot 71 from the blues. We all shot 73 to 76 from the back.

 

So, in the context of this thread, what does "not even close" mean?

 

What is the rating difference from the tees for the 400 yards Obee?

 

I know our course from the men's to the tips is 600 yards and three stroke difference in rating. So one stroke, maybe two for the 400 yards? So take just one stroke difference for the yardage. Brings the high guy down to 75 vs the 71. I don't know, but in my world four strokes is fairly close.

[Obee]

2 strokes, I believe.

[PowderedToastMan]

On a shortish course, advantage has to go to the women, particularly if the greens are tricky. In general, they are phenomenal putters. Receptive greens also help the women, as that makes hitting longer irons into greens easier.

 

That’s my opinion, which is darn near fact.

[Shilgy]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

And I misread the format. Go get 'em!

[deadsolid...shank]

I'll be eagerly awaiting results. It should prove interesting. Like Obee said, maybe as close as we're going to get to something more than speculation on that much discussed topic.

[Ghostwedge]

I'll bet the LPGA Tour player every single time over the middle aged scratch player. Especially if there is money and a gallery involved.

 

 

 

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

[straightshot7]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

Please...LPGA Tour players on average are not playing for basic needs. 100th on the money list made $98k last year not including endorsements and anything their spouse brings in.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

Please...LPGA Tour players on average are not playing for basic needs. 100th on the money list made $98k last year not including endorsements and anything their spouse brings in.

in response I have zero idea what that point/statement is, really, I don't.

 

mine is that the LPGA players performance (make that their "peak" performance) is always mandatory, it's their job, it's not optional.

 

amatuers playing amatuer golf have no real skin in the game, they don't give out their Social Security # when they tee it up, a good/bad week has zero impact on their actual lives.

 

the difference (pressure) between a prize money and an Am event is enormous.

[lowheel]

 

I know an LPGA golfer. Have played a lot of golf with her. Have seen her play with scratch golfers. Not even close.

 

So do I! Recently played with a top 100 player in the world. She beat A group of six or seven scratch golfers by 2 to 4 shots playing a golf course about 400 yards shorter than we played. She shot 71 from the blues. We all shot 73 to 76 from the back.

 

So, in the context of this thread, what does "not even close" mean?

 

She didn’t really beat you guys then. You literally played a different course. 400 yards is a big difference. If you played from her tees you beat her by a few by default as you would have a few more wedges/ shorter clubs into par 5s. I played with a bunch of lpga players at leadbetters academy at champions gate in Orlando over the years and it’s always a great match but the setup determines everything. I have tremendous respect and admiration for the ladies and their game but unless you play the same tees it’s moot. It will be fun to compare some of the results though.have fun!

[Obee]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

The "real golf" comment was only in relation to the formats: better-ball of partners the first two days, then "real golf" the final day.

 

Of course pros have much more at stake on any given week.

 

We are talking pure golf scores here, people. Just scores, on an almost identical course. Nothing more, nothing less. :-)

[BIG STU]

It would be interesting to see. Now with me being a gambler on a bet like that I would take either side in other words a pick bet.

Now when the LPGA played here years ago they played a course called Wachaesaw East. They played around 6500 maybe 6600 at sea level. Meg Mallon still holds the course record at 62. No one has ever broken that record and some great players including the current world #1 DJ has played it. Now for the variables The DJ in college was a great player then but nothing like we see now. That course is not in the great shape it was in for the tournaments back in those days in fact it has really went down hill. I told someone the other day here that I figured that record would never be equalled or broken mainly due to course conditions but then again it is golf and anything can happen. Yep I ain't going to argue either way on that one like I said it is a pick bet

[BIG STU]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

The "real golf" comment was only in relation to the formats: better-ball of partners the first two days, then "real golf" the final day.

 

Of course pros have much more at stake on any given week.

 

We are talking pure golf scores here, people. Just scores, on an almost identical course. Nothing more, nothing less. :-)

Trust me Obee I absolutely get where you are coming from on that

[DavePelz4]

Meghan Kang shot +1 and +2 in the first two rounds this week. If OB has the chance to practice a bit, I'll put my money on him. He's done this before and shot some great scores.

 

Looking forward to this OB!

[lumberman2462]

Ok...this is going to be interesting.

 

 

[Man_O_War]

always have to lean towards the Professional...it is all they do...length isn't everything folks....Corey Pavin won his share against the likes of Norman...He was very short

[cagecitizen]

Dear OP;

 

Crack is whack.

 

Yours truly,

 

Mike Whan

[DavePelz4]

Courtesy of DSS...there are some top pros who shot some crappy rounds. Anna Nordqvist shot +10 for 2 rounds, Stacy Lewis +6 and Angela Stanford shot +16. Starting to think OB has this in the bag.

[Hawkeye77]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

Please...LPGA Tour players on average are not playing for basic needs. 100th on the money list made $98k last year not including endorsements and anything their spouse brings in.

 

That's getting close to basic needs.

 

And spousal income, if someone has one, isn't a proper part of the discussion.

[MtlJeff]

Posting on page 1 of this thread is like boarding the old Newark to Singapore flight.....you just sit down and know that this will be a looooooooong ride.

 

I feel like the LPGA player should probably be a 3 shot favorite or so, just because i'm guessing they are around +3 handicaps. Maybe i am slightly off