Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[straightshot7]

3 hours ago, farmer said:

The difference between a full time professional in any field and even a gifted amateur is huge.  Watch a truly good carpenter, and compare them to a truly good DIYer.  No contest.

obviously not when we are talking male vs female

 

most men’s D1 basketball players for example would destroy everyone in the WNBA.

 

the same is true across a variety of activities. 

[straightshot7]

1 hour ago, jmck said:

In a world full of bad takes, 'yeah, a random scratch dude can hang with a random LPGA pro' is quite possibly the worst take of all.  Just completely delusional.  

I wouldn’t say “scratch” since the handicap system is a joke and that means they are only counting 8 out of 20 rounds and not taking anything worse than a double bogey.

 

but a current or former D1 or D2 male with a scoring average of 74 or better?
 

Yes I believe they could hang with an average LPGA pro quite easily. 
 

these guys would likely be Plus handicaps, though. 

[TiScape]

1 minute ago, straightshot7 said:

I wouldn’t say “scratch” since the handicap system is a joke and that means they are only counting 8 out of 20 rounds and not taking anything worse than a double bogey.

 

but a current or former D1 or D2 male with a scoring average of 74 or better?
 

Yes I believe they could hang with an average LPGA pro quite easily. 
 

these guys would likely be Plus handicaps, though. 

This feels about as important to me as what category of YouTube golf influencer is most prevalent! 😂 

 

*prob shoulda just hit ‘refresh’ on this post 😐

[bcflyguy1]

51 minutes ago, Johnny Biarritz said:

This is getting away from the topic at hand, but the "give me a double" is driven by the handicap system where net double is the highest you can take on a round you post for handicap. For a 5 handicap, that means his max score is a double on all but 5 holes, maybe a few more depending on the course. I've never agreed with the Equitable Stroke Control system.

ESC is a sand-bagging mitigation measure; whether it's effective enough is another matter entirely.

[DavePelz4]

In 2024, there were ninety nine LPGA players who finished with a stroke average of 72 or less. A scratch doesn't have a chance.

 

Now, if you want to use Alison Curdt who shot +38 in the KPMG, I'd suggest there is a possibility, but you also need to play with the same pin positions, weather, etc.

[AZBRONCFAN]

1 hour ago, Johnny Biarritz said:

This is getting away from the topic at hand, but the "give me a double" is driven by the handicap system where net double is the highest you can take on a round you post for handicap. For a 5 handicap, that means his max score is a double on all but 5 holes, maybe a few more depending on the course. I've never agreed with the Equitable Stroke Control system.

It depends on the hole right? That is why you should just plug in what you got on each hole and let the GHIN app figure it out. Sometimes you are getting a stroke too and it goes down as net bogey when you were going to shoot a million. Regardless that will show up for the guy in stroke play vs the LPGA gal. 

[Argonne69]

1 minute ago, DavePelz4 said:

In 2024, there were ninety nine LPGA players who finished with a stroke average of 72 or less. A scratch doesn't have a chance.

 

Now, if you want to use Alison Curdt who shot +38 in the KPMG, I'd suggest there is a possibility, but you also need to play with the same pin positions, weather, etc.

 

Toss in that the average is likely across 75 or more rounds played in tournament conditions. No gimmes. No breakfast balls. Playing it down 95% of the time. Cameras rolling. 

 

There are many players who go an entire season with a high score of 76. That's usually in a major. 

 

[hebsan]

26 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

In 2024, there were ninety nine LPGA players who finished with a stroke average of 72 or less. A scratch doesn't have a chance.

 

Now, if you want to use Alison Curdt who shot +38 in the KPMG, I'd suggest there is a possibility, but you also need to play with the same pin positions, weather, etc.

Not a good example to use as Alison Curdt is not an LPGA touring pro.

[Argonne69]

There are 176 LPGA players with CME points. Let's look at #50, Miranda Wang. She's a rookie, and ranks 179th in the world rankings. Certainly not killing it out there. She's played in 10 events this year, and made the cut in 9 of them. She has two top 10s. With 37 rounds played she has a scoring average of 71.33. She has 11 rounds in the 60s, and has shot under par 14 times. Low round was a 65. 

 

She shot a 77 in the first round of the KPMG, a rough day for most players. Otherwise her worst round was a 76.

 

C'mon, the 179th ranked player in the world is out there averaging less than par in tournament conditions with only a handful of rounds a couple of strokes over par. Too many people don't realize how consistent the LPGA players are. 

 

[isaacbm]

4 hours ago, TiScape said:

Yup! 
As someone here eluded to. I picture the guy at ‘The club’  after a few talking about how he would take down an LPGA player. Same guy that will tell you he woulda been in the NFL/MLB if it wasn’t for his knee/shoulder injury in HS! 😆 

[isaacbm]

I can’t help myself. I have to post in these threads. It always comes down to a math problem for me. The best women in the world (if they were using the men’s course rating/slope rating system) would be the equivalent of around +5 to +6 handicaps.  And remember that’s using only tournament rounds.  The women around 200th in the world would be closer to +2 handicaps.
 

If you are a club scratch that is literally a 0.0 index, (and most of your rounds come from men’s night with your buddies, drinking beers, raking three footers ) what do you think the chances are of you beating a +5.5 tournament player? 

 

Basically, the woman would have to have close to her worst round of the season and the scratch would have to have close to his best round. Definitely a possibility, but likely not better than one in 20.  

Lexi Thompson shot 73,69 at TPC Sumerlin (rated 74.7/143) basically 7under the rating playing in a men’s PGA Tour tournament. She missed the cut by 3 and beat 45 male PGa Tour players but still shot 7 under the rating for two days. Do you think scratch-guy-Earl from locker 222 is going to shoot 7 under the rating in a PGA tour event?

 

math

Edited July 2 by isaacbm

[UncleJohn’sBand]

1 minute ago, isaacbm said:

I can’t help myself. I have to post in these threads. It always comes down to a math problem for me. The best women in the world (if they were using the men’s course rating/slope rating system) would be the equivalent of around +5 to +6 handicaps.  And remember that’s using only tournament rounds.  The women around 200th in the world would be closer to +2 handicaps.
 

If you are a club scratch that is literally a 0.0 index, (and most of your rounds come from men’s night with your buddies, drinking beers, raking three footers ) what do you think the chances are of you beating a +5.5 tournament player? 

 

Basically, the woman would have to have close to her worst round of the season and the scratch would have to have close to his best round. Definitely a possibility, but likely not better than one in 20.  

Lexi Thompson shot 73,69 at TPC Sumerlin (rated 74.7/143) basically 7 under the rating playing in a men’s PGA Tour tournament. She missed the cut by 3 and beat 45 male PGa Tour players but still shot 7 under the rating for two days. Do you think scratch-guy-Earl from locker 222 is going to shoot 7 under the rating in a PGA tour event?

 

math

This is the heavy hitter this thread needed. 

[Obee]

4 hours ago, UncleJohn’sBand said:

Took 21 pages for someone to get it right. 
 

I’d love to play one of these ladies in a match. I think it would be a fun match, and I’d probably get to play a nice golf course with a world class golfer. But I don’t think if we played 4 days in a row, you would ever beat one. Maybe one day, one round. But Thursday to Sunday, probably not a chance. 
 

 

Uhhhh ... I said this already ... 😉

[UncleJohn’sBand]

1 minute ago, Obee said:

Uhhhh ... I said this already ... 😉

[Obee]

Go back and read some of the scores that were shot. I did a pretty detailed analysis of male scratch and below playing the SAME COURSE in SIMILAR conditions (ours are tougher for sure) at the SAME TIME OF YEAR. It's not that hard to actually know how this would play out, guys...

 

[straightshot7]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

This feels about as important to me as what category of YouTube golf influencer is most prevalent! 😂 

 

*prob shoulda just hit ‘refresh’ on this post 😐

then why are you here? ☺️

[fowlerscousin]

20 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

I can’t help myself. I have to post in these threads. It always comes down to a math problem for me. The best women in the world (if they were using the men’s course rating/slope rating system) would be the equivalent of around +5 to +6 handicaps.  And remember that’s using only tournament rounds.  The women around 200th in the world would be closer to +2 handicaps.
 

If you are a club scratch that is literally a 0.0 index, (and most of your rounds come from men’s night with your buddies, drinking beers, raking three footers ) what do you think the chances are of you beating a +5.5 tournament player? 

 

Basically, the woman would have to have close to her worst round of the season and the scratch would have to have close to his best round. Definitely a possibility, but likely not better than one in 20.  

Lexi Thompson shot 73,69 at TPC Sumerlin (rated 74.7/143) basically 7 under the rating playing in a men’s PGA Tour tournament. She missed the cut by 3 and beat 45 male PGa Tour players but still shot 7 under the rating for two days. Do you think scratch-guy-Earl from locker 222 is going to shoot 7 under the rating in a PGA tour event?

 

math

Steph curry a scratch golfer shot 71 in his first ever web.com tournament round

Edited July 1 by fowlerscousin

[UncleJohn’sBand]

4 minutes ago, fowlerscousin said:

Steph curry a scratch golfer shot 71 in his first ever web.com tournament round

And his second round? 
 

There are three former professional golfers in this thread. They are all saying the scratch would get smoked. The scratch will get smoked. 

[Obee]

7 minutes ago, UncleJohn’sBand said:

And his second round? 
 

There are three former professional golfers in this thread. They are all saying the scratch would get smoked. The scratch will get smoked. 

 

Look at the scores that real scratch golfers posted at Wilshire CC on a course playing TOUGHER and LONGER than the ladies play it. they are farther up in the thread. It's kind of meaningliess to throw around terms like "smoked" when there's actual context from real "scratch" (and below) golfers to draw from.

 

Edited July 1 by Obee

[cardoustie]

Would a +4 elite Am competing at state and national Am levels get smoked ?   I think not

 

Jim 0.0 El Hoselero from a 6200, 70/125 track is getting crushed 99/100 rounds

[UncleJohn’sBand]

3 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

Look at the scores that real scratch golfers posted at Wilshire CC on a course playing TOUGHER and LONGER than the ladies play it. they are farther up in the thread. It's kind of meaningliess to throw around terms like "smoked" when there's actual context from real "scratch" (and below) golfers to draw from.

 

We talking tournament scratch or Saturday scratch? 

[DavePelz4]

2 hours ago, hebsan said:

Not a good example to use as Alison Curdt is not an LPGA touring pro.

 

She qualified for a major on the LPGA and a lot of touring pros didn't, and I also mentioned that they might have a chance against her.

 

Are you saying because she's a teaching pro she's not good.  Two words. MICHAEL BLOCK.

Edited July 1 by DavePelz4

[TiScape]

47 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

then why are you here? ☺️

Ur post. Not the thread. And I was kidding. 
 

cheers 🍻 

[WesternRacing]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

 

Look at the scores that real scratch golfers posted at Wilshire CC on a course playing TOUGHER and LONGER than the ladies play it. they are farther up in the thread. It's kind of meaningliess to throw around terms like "smoked" when there's actual context from real "scratch" (and below) golfers to draw from.

 

 

Well here’s some actual context consisting of actual scratch golfers against actual LPGA pros on the same course at the same time...  And yes, the amateurs got smoked.

 

https://golf.com/news/scratch-golfer-lpga-pros-handicap/?srsltid=AfmBOorWtyE4VsFPZ6qnOkIN4tDT66Fwpa6BnGjiJ8LsjU9cYY77A4nF

 

And even more data on the subject…

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lpga-tour-player-scratch-handicap-argument-settled-by-stats

 

And more insight from a pro…

 

https://www.skratch.golf/news/golf-culture/players-journal-auston-kim-talks-pro-golf-life-mental-health-scratch-golfers-vs-lpga-debate

 

 

Edited July 2 by WesternRacing

[aenemated]

Ah, my favorite thread. 

[UncleJohn’sBand]

23 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Well here’s some actual context consisting of actual scratch golfers against actual LPGA pros on the same course at the same time...  And yes, the amateurs got smoked.

 

https://golf.com/news/scratch-golfer-lpga-pros-handicap/?srsltid=AfmBOorWtyE4VsFPZ6qnOkIN4tDT66Fwpa6BnGjiJ8LsjU9cYY77A4nF

 

And even more data on the subject…

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lpga-tour-player-scratch-handicap-argument-settled-by-stats

 

And more insight from a pro…

 

https://www.skratch.golf/news/golf-culture/players-journal-auston-kim-talks-pro-golf-life-mental-health-scratch-golfers-vs-lpga-debate

 

 

Chill with the data. I’d hate for you to prove people wrong. 

[Rosco1216]

I’m a +3 middle aged man and I could beat any lpga tour player! Nelly Korda and Charley Hull specifically. Now I just need them to reach out to me and schedule our match!

[NorthTexasGlfr]

8 hours ago, fowlerscousin said:

The cut line at an lpga event is always worse than +2, at majors it's worse than +20. A male scratch can hold their own

 

I would like to see the list of women's majors that have had a cut line of +20 or more.

 

Can you please provide that? Thanks.

[NorthTexasGlfr]

8 hours ago, fowlerscousin said:

Scratch players will post scores under par. I dont think u understand how few women have a stroke average sub 73

 

Do you consider 133 to be a "few"?

[Mr.Cleeks]

9 hours ago, fowlerscousin said:

The cut line at an lpga event is always worse than +2, at majors it's worse than +20. A male scratch can hold their own

The cut at the last 3 women's majors has been +7, +1, and +2. I don't think any male scratch golfer is shooting anywhere near par at Erin Hills 2 days in a row under major championship conditions.