Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[Frank Newport]

40 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Dude, you are literally arguing against MATH….posting a single round where some scratches struggled one round isnt proof of anything.  The scratches you have experienced must not be true scratches to be honest. Which is a completely different thing. 

 

Great point, thats why the handicap system is flawed. Ive tried to point out how far you hit it matters, and the course setup and length. The proof of this is they treat a womens course rating way differently than a mens rating… why? Because they base it on average distance hit by a man and women. So when you say scratch, that could mean ALOT of different things, and they dont all translate the same. 

 

How far you hit it absolutely matters and lots of pro golfer's games don't "travel" all that well no less scratch amateurs. That's why using the generic term "scratch" is a flawed approach for this whole discussion. No 2 scratches are built the same.

[straightshot7]

32 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

There's tons of data on this if people just ... pay attention.

But they don't.

A true 0.0 index male who has any level of travelling index (meaning he plays a few tournaments here and there, plays in his club championship every year, and plays multiple courses throughout the year -- so, virtually every scratch I know) is going to get beaten handily in a four-round tournament in the same conditions as the ladies. I have said this over and over and over.

He's going to shoot something like I mentioned above: 77, 74, 71, 80. Of course those numbers can vary, but something like that is a relatively likely scenario.

The ladies are going to shoot, on average, for the whole field, 73, 73, 72, 72. or 72, 72, 71, 71. Or something VERY close to that.

That's it. It's THAT simple.

The winner will shoot a lot lower (68, 66, 70, 68?) and the gals at the bottom will shoot 76, 75 and trunk slam. 

This. Is. Not. Hard.

 

I don't understand what your post had to do with mine . . . 

 

I am asking mostly in the context of entertainment purposes.

 

The PGA Tour let Annika, Michele Wie, Lexi Thompson and others play in a PGA Tour event, right?

We all knew they wouldn't fair well.

 

That wasn't my question.. but thanks for the statistical breakdown I guess?

[Obee]

Just now, Frank Newport said:

 

How far you hit it absolutely matters and lots of pro golfer's games don't "travel" all that well no less scratch amateurs. That's why using the generic term "scratch" is a flawed approach for this whole discussion. No 2 scratches are built the same.

But ... they shoot the same differentials (at least for the top 8 of their last 20).

[Obee]

2 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

 

I don't understand what your post had to do with mine . . . 

 

I am asking mostly in the context of entertainment purposes.

 

The PGA Tour let Annika, Michele Wie, Lexi Thompson and others play in a PGA Tour event, right?

We all knew they wouldn't fair well.

 

That wasn't my question.. but thanks for the statistical breakdown I guess?

I may have been responding to something else. Apologies.

[chisag]

6 hours ago, aenemated said:

The extents dudes will go to create scenarios where they just maybe might get beat by a girl is endlessly entertaining. 

 

 

... I guess we will just have to remain idiots amigo. I have taught golf, play to a +1 and have been in my share of tournaments earlier in my career but evidently I don't "understand golf". 🫣


 

Edited July 14 by chisag

[Frank Newport]

1 minute ago, Obee said:

But ... they shoot the same differentials (at least for the top 8 of their last 20).

 

Definitely true. I just think a lot of very good golfers tend to play the same course a lot because they're members there or just live near there.

 

The thing I don't understand though is why don't competition rounds on GHIN get more "weighting" when it comes to calculating one's index? Seems like a flaw to me.

 

[Obee]

4 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

 

Definitely true. I just think a lot of very good golfers tend to play the same course a lot because they're members there or just live near there.

 

The thing I don't understand though is why don't competition rounds on GHIN get more "weighting" when it comes to calculating one's index? Seems like a flaw to me.

 

It is a flaw. That used to be the way it was in the UK. In fact, ONLY competition rounds counted for handicap purposes, I believe.

The USGA is all about "the more people who have an index, the better."

I would LOVE there to be two indexes: Your "normal" index and you "competition index" with only scores shot fully under the rules of golf and supervised by either the pro shop or a golf association can be counted.

[Frank Newport]

14 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I guess we will just have to remain idiots amigo. I have taught golf, play to a +1 and have been in my share of tournaments earlier in my career but evidently I don't "understand golf". 🫣

... I posted earlier in this thread I played with a high school girl, yea HIGH SCHOOL prepping for the tournament that ended up beating all the boys shooting a 69-63. A male scratch of any age had zero chance of beating her. The there is D1 and then the Epson Tour and finally the pinnacle of the LPGA. So well said, the male ego is endlessly entertaining! 

 

She played from 5,696 yards while the boys played from 6,930 yards. The par 5s she played were 492 yards, 444 yards, 432 yards, and 468 yards. I can keep going if you like, but it won't make your argument look any better.

 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

 

She played from 5,696 yards while the boys played from 6,930 yards. The par 5s she played were 492 yards, 444 yards, 432 yards, and 468 yards. I can keep going if you like, but it won't make your argument look any better.

 

 

 

... Thanks 👍  she played from the Aguila mens tees in her two practice rounds with us and shot 68-67. I assumed (incorrectly) since she played on the boys high school team they all played from the same tees. Fwiw, she averaged around 280 off the tee. 

[Pnwpingi210]

Highly unlikely a  0 handicap golfer is beating a card carrying lpga member in a tournament consistenting of 72 holes.

 

 

No if you start to get specific and say Kyle berkshirere vs the shortest hitting lpga tour winner on the longest more open course in the world then maybe they have a shot.  But you have really get very specific with a lot of concessions.

 

in reality a scratch or 0 handicap struggles to shoot par a few times of the course of 20 rounds.  LPGA pros are probably going to average par or less over that same 20 rounds from the same tee.

[Frank Newport]

21 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Thanks 👍  she played from the Aguila mens tees in her two practice rounds with us and shot 68-67. I assumed (incorrectly) since she played on the boys high school team they all played from the same tees. Fwiw, she averaged around 280 off the tee. 

You thought she shot -12 over a 2 day tournament on a course playing 400+ yards longer than the courses they play LPGA majors on? 🤣

[chisag]

1 minute ago, Frank Newport said:

You thought she shot -12 over a 2 day tournament on a course playing 400+ yards longer than the courses they play LPGA majors on? 🤣

 

 

... She shot -9 playing with us at LPGA yardage. I also thought the boys played from the mens tees so I was wrong about most everything concerning this State Championship. Happy now? 

[Obee]

8 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... She shot -9 playing with us at LPGA yardage. I also thought the boys played from the mens tees so I was wrong about most everything concerning this State Championship. Happy now? 

Yes? 😉

[Pnwpingi210]

I would like to start a group of investors to back an LPGA tour member in a high stakes, 72 holes stroke play event from 7000 yards against any scratch golf over your choosing.

 

 

😆

[lchang]

2 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

Is there anything stopping the LPGA from allowing some "Scratch" males to play in some events? Would definitely boost viewership I believe.

 

I think they banned males pretending to be females, but this would obviously be different.

The men wouldn't receive prize money but maybe simply some separate prizes like a new car. 

 

Here you go: 

 

[Obee]

16 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I would like to start a group of investors to back an LPGA tour member in a high stakes, 72 holes stroke play event from 7000 yards against any scratch golf over your choosing.

 

 

😆

Only an idiot would take that bet. 

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, Obee said:

Only an idiot would take that bet. 

I’m not calling anyone an idiot, but I think there are making the case in this thread that it’s possible the 0 handicap male golfer wins…..

[straightshot7]

28 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I would like to start a group of investors to back an LPGA tour member in a high stakes, 72 holes stroke play event from 7000 yards against any scratch golf over your choosing.

 

 

😆

 

Can we also choose the "LPGA tour member"?

 

I can select someone who is injured, for example 😄

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, straightshot7 said:

 

Can we also choose the "LPGA tour member"?

 

I can select someone who is injured, for example 😄

This thread is too much.

 

like a delusional fantasy zone.

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, Frank Newport said:

 

She played from 5,696 yards while the boys played from 6,930 yards. The par 5s she played were 492 yards, 444 yards, 432 yards, and 468 yards. I can keep going if you like, but it won't make your argument look any better.

 

Hahah whoops forgot that detail

[Red4282]

31 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I’m not calling anyone an idiot, but I think there are making the case in this thread that it’s possible the 0 handicap male golfer wins…..

Curious, What would you put odds of a +1.8 male against the approx #75 ish (nobody in particular) in a single 18 hole match. From various yardages.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 hours ago, m d g said:

 

When Golf Channel switched to the Evian, the announcer said it was 6,300 yards, I believe. I noted it because that is what me and my hacker buddies play most of the time.

 

That course is at 2,400 feet, so it plays even shorter.

The average elevation of the course is closer to 1500 ft (I did a search on Evian-Les-Bains course elevation). The elevation helps a couple of percent maybe. They play at different lengths each day. Given the good final round scores it wouldn't surprise me if it played on the short side.

[m d g]

26 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

This thread is too much.

 

like a delusional fantasy zone.

 

Welcome to the internet. First time here? : )

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Curious, What would you put odds of a +1.8 male against the approx #75 ish (nobody in particular) in a single 18 hole match. From various yardages.

Closer.  
 

Even closer over 9 holes.  Close to even if we go down to just one hole and it’s a par three under 150 yards….

 

 

[Red4282]

1 minute ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Closer.  
 

Even closer over 9 holes.  Close to even if we go down to just one hole and it’s a par three under 150 yards….

 

 

Mkay, great conversation lol

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, Red4282 said:

Mkay, great conversation lol

I thought that was the point, get it close to even odds?

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

Aren’t top women’s amateur golfers usually in the +4 to +6 range right before they get their cards?

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/what-handicap-are-lpga-tour-players

Edited July 14 by Pnwpingi210

[Red4282]

7 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I thought that was the point, get it close to even odds?

 

 

I guess i should be more specific. If they played an 18 hole match 10 times from 6400 yards, how many is each winning? And from 7000 yards? And how about 10 72 hole tournaments?

[ThinkingPlus]

4 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Aren’t top women’s amateur golfers usually in the +4 to +6 range right before they get their cards?

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/what-handicap-are-lpga-tour-players

Yes. Women's indices not men's. 

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

I guess i should be more specific. If they played an 18 hole match 10 times from 6400 yards, how many is each winning? And from 7000 yards? And how about 10 72 hole tournaments?

Don’t know the odds.  But I’ve seen two lpga events in person and lots of men’s  championships.

 

im taking the lpga player (over scratch or even club 1.8) in any scenario where you playing 4 or more rounds

Edited July 14 by Pnwpingi210