Forget Yardage books! Allow laser rangefinders...

[ray9898]

Lasers won't speed up play and the PGA Tour doesn't have a problem as long as their slotted entertainment ends at Sunday 6pm EST.

 

Lasers certainly COULD speed up play as I've offered tons of logical information pertaining to the subject. If you've chosen not to read it, then your lost.

 

No.....you really didn't show much of anything. It would be useful for one measurement of the 1/2 dozen they factor on every shot. They will still use a book to figure out carry distances, green characteristics, landing area and everything else; much of which is calculated while the group ahead is still on the green. It wouldn't be a measurable difference in time.

[Mdemuth]

I want to see pro's not use anything. Just them, a caddy, the course, the clubs, the ball, and their own depth perception.

[RH2]

I’d have no problem with letting them use rangefinders. Just start with a normal range finder that doesn’t do slope and I don’t see how that would be a negative at all. In other aspects of the game, they let the PGA guys use the most modern technology in the world to fine tune their swings and have customized gear made so why not let them use a simple range finder?

[marmooskapaul]

Range finder...pull cart and no caddy.

[Bricks]

Imagine if the battery dies mid-round.. oh man!

First the drama with the player yelling at the caddie for not putting in fresh batteries, next to the indecision of the yardage, oh and the traffic jam it would cause! lol I would love to see that.

[marmooskapaul]

Imagine if the battery dies mid-round.. oh man!

First the drama with the player yelling at the caddie for not putting in fresh batteries, next to the indecision of the yardage, oh and the traffic jam it would cause! lol I would love to see that.

 

It's not a big deal to change a battery..lol.

[Roadking2003]

Imagine if the battery dies mid-round.. oh man!

First the drama with the player yelling at the caddie for not putting in fresh batteries, next to the indecision of the yardage, oh and the traffic jam it would cause! lol I would love to see that.

 

Most of us always carry a spare.

[fly787]

The yardage books are very detailed with yardage to carry bunkers, ridges on greens, false fronts etc... rangefinder will not speed up play.

[Prntscrn]

I remember Fanny Sunesson arguing on the Swedish broadcast a while back why it wouldn't speed up the play. Can't remember what her arguments were though

[Pigems]

Instead of range finders just allow them to use GPS, let their yardage books be put on their phones or an IPad and let them use that instead. That may actually speed things up.

[SwooshLT]

Lasers won't speed up play and the PGA Tour doesn't have a problem as long as their slotted entertainment ends at Sunday 6pm EST.

 

Lasers certainly COULD speed up play as I've offered tons of logical information pertaining to the subject. If you've chosen not to read it, then your lost.

 

No.....you really didn't show much of anything. It would be useful for one measurement of the 1/2 dozen they factor on every shot. They will still use a book to figure out carry distances, green characteristics, landing area and everything else; much of which is calculated while the group ahead is still on the green. It wouldn't be a measurable difference in time.

 

 

Everything you said .....none of which happens....most times they're never waiting for a group especially during 2 somes....I get the importance of green characteristics.....I can shoot front edge, top of a bunker maybe even a slope in the green ....the time it takes for the math to soak in is amusing....these guys know their numbers and it shouldn't take as long as it does to hit shots. I'll caddy for you with my laser and I'll show you the time saved :-)

[Socrates]

Instead of range finders just allow them to use GPS, let their yardage books be put on their phones or an IPad and let them use that instead. That may actually speed things up.

Thing is, is that GPS isn't accurate enough for Tour players. It often is several yards off depending on the service. If Johnny M. is in the field, we know he is down to the 1/2 yard.

[QuigleyDU]

range finders would be less useful than their yardage books and topographic maps of the course and greens. these guys know where every bump, slope, and ridge is and how far away it is. A range finder would just tell them something they already know.

[Roadking2003]

Instead of range finders just allow them to use GPS, let their yardage books be put on their phones or an IPad and let them use that instead. That may actually speed things up.

Thing is, is that GPS isn't accurate enough for Tour players. It often is several yards off depending on the service. If Johnny M. is in the field, we know he is down to the 1/2 yard.

 

Shooting mounds, bunker lips and valleys with a laser is even less accurate.

[Socrates]

Instead of range finders just allow them to use GPS, let their yardage books be put on their phones or an IPad and let them use that instead. That may actually speed things up.

Thing is, is that GPS isn't accurate enough for Tour players. It often is several yards off depending on the service. If Johnny M. is in the field, we know he is down to the 1/2 yard.

 

Shooting mounds, bunker lips and valleys with a laser is even less accurate.

hence the need for yardage books.

[bladehunter]

 

This is from of the better college coaches in the country.

 

So play with a range finder is over 4.5 hours? If someone hits in another fairway I wouldn’t call use of a rangefinders reward for the golfer but for everyone playing. I can only imagine the amount of time it would take for that player to get a yardage and take their shot without a rangefinder.

 

That’s the point. They don’t get a perfect yardage. They have to play it by educated guess and more importantly feel. Which is dying every day by the by.

[naval2006]

A PGA tour yardage book has got loads of info gathered by the caddie that a rangefinder will never deliver. Anyways, rangefinders are encouraged by the USGA and the R&A through a local rule in amateur championships as long as there's no slope measurement.

 

I think at PGA Tour level nobody cares about length of round, The amount of time a twosome needs to complete 18 holes is ridiculous. And in the past years new amateur golfers imitate this plus the mags, and the internet with all the pre and post routine you've got to do to lower 100 so you end up with four guys playing a round in way over five hours.

 

Lenght of round is one of the most detrimental aspects of our game. If you invite your buddy under 40 who's never played golf and you tell them that you're gonna spend like 6-7 hours on the course you are more likely to discourage them than otherwise. But no golf association is taking care of it. And I don't think that by only using a rangefinder this will improve.

[SwooshLT]

A PGA tour yardage book has got loads of info gathered by the caddie that a rangefinder will never deliver. Anyways, rangefinders are encouraged by the USGA and the R&A through a local rule in amateur championships as long as there's no slope measurement.

 

I think at PGA Tour level nobody cares about length of round, The amount of time a twosome needs to complete 18 holes is ridiculous. And in the past years new amateur golfers imitate this plus the mags, and the internet with all the pre and post routine you've got to do to lower 100 so you end up with four guys playing a round in way over five hours.

 

Lenght of round is one of the most detrimental aspects of our game. If you invite your buddy under 40 who's never played golf and you tell them that you're gonna spend like 6-7 hours on the course you are more likely to discourage them than otherwise. But no golf association is taking care of it. And I don't think that by only using a rangefinder this will improve.

 

Nice post but I'm very familiar with yardage books and the details thereof ......how much information does it really take to hit a golf shot? I'm not talking about YJS going off the grid at The Open and trying to ascertain he line and distance but just the standard, comfortable 9i from 152 to a middle left pin. It's almost as though no one has part shots anymore .....only the ability to hit full shots .... golf is very hard but don't make harder with paralysis by analysis

[bladehunter]

A PGA tour yardage book has got loads of info gathered by the caddie that a rangefinder will never deliver. Anyways, rangefinders are encouraged by the USGA and the R&A through a local rule in amateur championships as long as there's no slope measurement.

 

I think at PGA Tour level nobody cares about length of round, The amount of time a twosome needs to complete 18 holes is ridiculous. And in the past years new amateur golfers imitate this plus the mags, and the internet with all the pre and post routine you've got to do to lower 100 so you end up with four guys playing a round in way over five hours.

 

Lenght of round is one of the most detrimental aspects of our game. If you invite your buddy under 40 who's never played golf and you tell them that you're gonna spend like 6-7 hours on the course you are more likely to discourage them than otherwise. But no golf association is taking care of it. And I don't think that by only using a rangefinder this will improve.

 

Nice post but I'm very familiar with yardage books and the details thereof ......how much information does it really take to hit a golf shot? I'm not talking about YJS going off the grid at The Open and trying to ascertain he line and distance but just the standard, comfortable 9i from 152 to a middle left pin. It's almost as though no one has part shots anymore .....only the ability to hit full shots .... golf is very hard but don't make harder with paralysis by analysis

 

 

welcome to the modern game.... the1/2 shot and 3/4 shot is dying ...i dont think adding in a range finder will help this... It could only make it worse. giving them the opportunity to shoot 5 spots on a green will only make for more analysis

[dpb5031]

Permitting rangfinders is not going to replace yardage books on Tour and would likely have minimal impact on pace, but still I see no logical reason for banning them.

 

How do you think the distances, whether listed in a yardage book or engraved on a sprinkler head are derived in the first place?

 

Seems ridiculously illogical that lasers can't be used during a tournament round when the same information that's in their yardage books is largely made up of laser-read yardages during practice rounds. If it's the same info, derived from the same source, what's the difference if you use it during tournament play or only in practice? The answer is simple...image.

 

The Tour's ruling bodies are trying to maintain a traditionalist image.

[smeech8000]

A PGA tour yardage book has got loads of info gathered by the caddie that a rangefinder will never deliver. Anyways, rangefinders are encouraged by the USGA and the R&A through a local rule in amateur championships as long as there's no slope measurement.

 

I think at PGA Tour level nobody cares about length of round, The amount of time a twosome needs to complete 18 holes is ridiculous. And in the past years new amateur golfers imitate this plus the mags, and the internet with all the pre and post routine you've got to do to lower 100 so you end up with four guys playing a round in way over five hours.

 

Lenght of round is one of the most detrimental aspects of our game. If you invite your buddy under 40 who's never played golf and you tell them that you're gonna spend like 6-7 hours on the course you are more likely to discourage them than otherwise. But no golf association is taking care of it. And I don't think that by only using a rangefinder this will improve.

 

Nice post but I'm very familiar with yardage books and the details thereof ......how much information does it really take to hit a golf shot? I'm not talking about YJS going off the grid at The Open and trying to ascertain he line and distance but just the standard, comfortable 9i from 152 to a middle left pin. It's almost as though no one has part shots anymore .....only the ability to hit full shots .... golf is very hard but don't make harder with paralysis by analysis

 

 

welcome to the modern game.... the1/2 shot and 3/4 shot is dying ...i dont think adding in a range finder will help this... It could only make it worse. giving them the opportunity to shoot 5 spots on a green will only make for more analysis

 

Respectfully disagree - current level of playing conditions (slope + green speeds + hole locations) compounded by wind makes it absolutely critical to not only hit the proper yardage but also come in with the proper trajectory and spin. Just because players digest this information in a more methodical manner compared to the "feel" players of yesteryear does not mean they are less proficient. Course setups dictate a lot of the full swing mentality as well, there's just no incentive to play partial swing shots if only a slight variation of the "stock" shot will do.

 

Also consider that current equipment is engineered to minimize spin rates (overall) and it's not surprising you don't see players working against that trend to "create" shots when they don't have to. Bubba is probably the most notable (if not only) example of the contrary.

[JaNelson38]

Permitting rangfinders is not going to replace yardage books on Tour and would likely have minimal impact on pace, but still I see no logical reason for banning them.

 

How do you think the distances, whether listed in a yardage book or engraved on a sprinkler head are derived in the first place?

 

Seems ridiculously illogical that lasers can't be used during a tournament round when the same information that's in their yardage books is largely made up of laser-read yardages during practice rounds. If it's the same info, derived from the same source, what's the difference if you use it during tournament play or only in practice? The answer is simple...image.

 

The Tour's ruling bodies are trying to maintain a traditionalist image.

 

Yardage books for Tour Pro's usually have much more than just yardage, though. Pro's will write notes about how certain holes play, comments about what clubs they used at certain distances, draw their own illustrations about the greens and how they putt, etc. They do all this for future reference for later rounds, especially the information about the greens and how they putt, since these guys basically play the same courses every season.

 

I still remember Paddy Harrington tweeting out a picture of a page of his Masters yardage book a couple years ago, and was amazed by the detail. Notes, information, and illustrations everywhere - for every possible pin location on a green - that could have only been gathered from numerous practice and tournament rounds. Its this type of stuff these guys are looking at when they are analyzing their approach shots.

 

 

[dpb5031]

Permitting rangfinders is not going to replace yardage books on Tour and would likely have minimal impact on pace, but still I see no logical reason for banning them.

 

How do you think the distances, whether listed in a yardage book or engraved on a sprinkler head are derived in the first place?

 

Seems ridiculously illogical that lasers can't be used during a tournament round when the same information that's in their yardage books is largely made up of laser-read yardages during practice rounds. If it's the same info, derived from the same source, what's the difference if you use it during tournament play or only in practice? The answer is simple...image.

 

The Tour's ruling bodies are trying to maintain a traditionalist image.

 

Yardage books for Tour Pro's usually have much more than just yardage, though. Pro's will write notes about how certain holes play, comments about what clubs they used at certain distances, draw their own illustrations about the greens and how they putt, etc. They do all this for future reference for later rounds, especially the information about the greens and how they putt, since these guys basically play the same courses every season.

 

I still remember Paddy Harrington tweeting out a picture of a page of his Masters yardage book a couple years ago, and was amazed by the detail.

 

 

Exactly, and that's why yardage books aren't going anywhere. My point is that the rangefinder ban is strictly an image thing. There's zero logical reason other than image projection to not allow their use during tournament play.

[Niggo]

golf carts on tour?? lol that'll speed things up...

[JaNelson38]

Exactly, and that's why yardage books aren't going anywhere. My point is that the rangefinder ban is strictly an image thing. There's zero logical reason other than image projection to not allow their use during tournament play.

 

I disagree to an extent. I think it would just add on time between shots. PGA Tour pros are gonna consult their yardage books no matter what, because its all they've done their entire careers. Combined with the reality that they'll no doubt lazer some distances on top of it to confirm their numbers in their books, and I think it will slow play even more than it is now.

 

Add the very real fact that rangefinders with slope technology basically eliminates any of the calculations needed for uphill or downhill shots...and elevation changes are often times one of the biggest defenses of any golf course. Even if the slope technology is illegal, it would be near impossible to police whether a player who has a rangefinder with slope was using it or not. Just not allowing rangefinders at all during play just eliminates the time and hassle with both of these instances.

 

I dont think its as simple as "image".

[dpb5031]

Exactly, and that's why yardage books aren't going anywhere. My point is that the rangefinder ban is strictly an image thing. There's zero logical reason other than image projection to not allow their use during tournament play.

 

I disagree to an extent. I think it would just add on time between shots. PGA Tour pros are gonna consult their yardage books no matter what, because its all they've done their entire careers. Combined with the reality that they'll no doubt lazer some distances on top of it to confirm their numbers in their books, and I think it will slow play even more than it is now.

 

Add the very real fact that rangefinders with slope technology basically eliminates any of the calculations needed for uphill or downhill shots...and elevation changes are often times one of the biggest defenses of any golf course. Even if the slope technology is illegal, it would be near impossible to police whether a player who has a rangefinder with slope was using it or not. Just not allowing rangefinders at all during play just eliminates the time and hassle with both of these instances.

 

I dont think its as simple as "image".

 

Almost every other golf sanctioning organization allows them in tournament play with no deleterious effects on time. Even the USGA permits their use except at their highest level events that are televised (no coincidence IMO).

 

Which takes longer, pacing off yardage from your nearest sprinkler head or some other landmark you've labeled in your yardage book, or simply lasering the flagstick?

 

Pace of play rests almost entirely on an apathetic tolerance by officials and lack of meaningful and consistently applied enforcement of policy.

[JaNelson38]

Almost every other golf sanctioning organization allows them in tournament play with no deleterious effects on time. Even the USGA permits their use except at their highest level events that are televised (no coincidence IMO).

 

Which takes longer, pacing off yardage from your nearest sprinkler head or some other landmark you've labeled in your yardage book, or simply lasering the flagstick?

 

Pace of play rests almost entirely on an apathetic tolerance by officials and lack of meaningful and consistently applied enforcement of policy.

 

 

Pros dont always shoot at the flags, though. Its pointless to have a rangefinder if you're shooting towards a specific spot on the green to putt from, or shooting to a specific part of a green that will allow your ball to filter towards the hole. Hence the reason that, even with the ability to lazer, pros are gonna consult their yardage books on every hole.

 

My main point is that allowing rangefinders isnt going to speed up pace of play, if that is what your main reasoning is for them to be allowed on Tour. The only thing that will speed up pace of play is a truly enforceable shot clock that is maintained by somebody who walks with each group. So I do agree with your last point about pace of play. As long as the time limit is reasonable (90 seconds from the time its your turn) It wouldnt be difficult....just send someone out with a stopwatch. You get a warning the first time you exceed your time limit, and then you are penalized for each time thereafter. Give each player one "time extension" of an extra 90 seconds once per 9, for those times where they have a truly difficult shot or are between clubs and want to closer analyze.

[spartan6910]

I had never used a legit yardage book until the past couple weeks. The course I played my US Open qualifier on got them made up, complete with green slope mapping. That was revolutionary. I now understand why the pros spend so much time on the greens looking over the book. At least a few times, I would read a putt one way, the book would tell me the complete opposite, and lo and behold the book was right. It's incredible.

 

I really didn't notice myself taking much more time over a shot using the yardage book than I would with a rangefinder. On par 3s, maybe, but everywhere else it was about the same. (No DMDs at USOLQ)

[SwooshLT]

I had never used a legit yardage book until the past couple weeks. The course I played my US Open qualifier on got them made up, complete with green slope mapping. That was revolutionary. I now understand why the pros spend so much time on the greens looking over the book. At least a few times, I would read a putt one way, the book would tell me the complete opposite, and lo and behold the book was right. It's incredible.

 

I really didn't notice myself taking much more time over a shot using the yardage book than I would with a rangefinder. On par 3s, maybe, but everywhere else it was about the same. (No DMDs at USOLQ)

 

 

In 1st sentence you state understanding why Pros take so much time to read their yardage book but then say it doesn't take anymore time than a range finder.....which one is it as it can't be both!

 

Also pace of play is the back drop for this thread with a great deal of positive input.....good job crew!

[spartan6910]

I had never used a legit yardage book until the past couple weeks. The course I played my US Open qualifier on got them made up, complete with green slope mapping. That was revolutionary. I now understand why the pros spend so much time on the greens looking over the book. At least a few times, I would read a putt one way, the book would tell me the complete opposite, and lo and behold the book was right. It's incredible.

 

I really didn't notice myself taking much more time over a shot using the yardage book than I would with a rangefinder. On par 3s, maybe, but everywhere else it was about the same. (No DMDs at USOLQ)

 

 

In 1st sentence you state understanding why Pros take so much time to read their yardage book but then say it doesn't take anymore time than a range finder.....which one is it as it can't be both!

 

Also pace of play is the back drop for this thread with a great deal of positive input.....good job crew!

 

Can you reading comprehension? There's a big difference between on the greens and in the fairway. I stated that I understand why they pore over the book on the greens. But on full shots, it didn't affect time as much, if at all. I'm obviously not using a rangefinder on the greens.

 

Comprende?