A rant from an OEM fitter...why I no longer work for a golf company

[gioguy21]

well fellas - those of you who know me, know that I've been an expert fitter for a few companies (shall remain nameless please as this story provides some insight of what it's like to work for one of them) for a few years as a side job for some extra cash, networking and otherwise the enjoyment of helping people get better at golf.

 

As of yesterday, i'm no longer working for a particular company - due to circumstances that, i feel need to be shared with the masses to provide some insight into the golf business and how we, as consumers might be viewed.

 

After working for 'the company' for the last 2 years, I've had 2 incidents in which I, as an employee - have been raked over coals for the good of the member/customer.

 

Last year, i fit a gentleman and his wife for 2 sets of irons, 4 hybrids, 3 fairway woods and a driver. The gentleman said he would only buy the clubs (ALL of them) - if i could make the sound in the driver better. So, I advised him, the pro at the club, the staff in the pro shop that would, outside of the OEM - fix the mans driver for him. I took the club home, put polyfill in it, changed the grip to allow for proper swingweight change, and delivered the club to the pro shop. The pro shop told me a 'reasonable fee for services' provided by myself was $50. So, they charged him. Two days later, i'm getting called by my boss b/c he was told that the member flipped his lid b/c he thought the services were free (which was incorrect, had txt messages from the two of us to prove it) - and that he was refusing ALL of the clubs, including his now-modified driver.

 

I was told I couldn't work demo days at that club anymore, despite doing all i could to a) make the sale, and b) help the member as he wanted

 

Fast forward to this season.

 

Working for the same company, I was fitting at a very nice country club - and the head pro/instructor played in a few PGA championships, and was a senior tester for my company. A kid (15, sophomore in HS) and his father were brought to me, with the pro/instructor with a broken club that was known for having quality issues. The pro asked me if I thought it could be warrantied out, and if yes, could he be re-fit for a new driver.

 

After looking at the club, and knowing issues with these drivers in the past - i figured it was a shoe-in to be warrantied. So, I fit him for a new driver. With the pro standing next to me, checking numbers, etc -- we had no x flex shafts in my matrix that could fit the kid; but we had a shaft that was 'ok but not the best numbers we could get' (quoting the pro). I told the pro that I had a shaft in my car that I think the kid could benefit from. Sure enough, I put it in the driver and he was hitting bombs - and had smiles on his face for the first time all day.

 

The kids father and i discussed me building the shaft outside of my company, and once he got the warrantied head back from said company, he'd have the perfectly fitted driver for his son.

 

...

 

Yesterday I got a call from my boss -

 

...

 

The head pro/instructor at that club called my boss and told him that I was doing everything i could to keep the kid out of a product available, and that i was 'making warranty promises without thorough knowledge of the product'. Further, my boss explained to me that despite my moral/ethical efforts to put the kid in a club that would TRULY fit him -- we need to sell what we have available, that's it; even if it's just 'good enough'.

 

 

I told him I didn't want to work for a company that wouldn't stand by their lowest rung, (and some of) the hardest working people in the business. I did everything I could in both instances (and EVERY time i fit someone) to give them the absolute best I could. If the puzzle pieces worked and it was the best for them -- happens 95% of the time -- they bought the clubs, and their game would get better because of it. I did my best to sell as much as I could for the company, make customers/members happy to use our product and otherwise be a walking AD for the company.

 

The reason for my posting of this message is not to blaspheme the company - but rather provide insight to those looking to get into the business that sometimes, making ethical or moral decisions will be taken for granted or in this case, punished in order to sell more product and keep status quo. You can care about who you're fitting, but you better sell em something. And buyers -- remember when getting fitted; your best interests are not necessarily being taken into account.

 

 

 

I'd be happy to answer questions or give any more insight into the business -- but please, leave the discussion or commenting about the possible OEM away from this conversation.

[third-times-a-charm]

your boss sounds like a dick; and every industry has no shortage of customers who should be 'fired'

 

typical mid management problems in large companies

[smeal818]

Don't blame you at all, you're better off elsewhere

[the bishop]

Milton Waddams had the answer

[gioguy21]

Milton Waddams had the answer

lol

 

i won't lie, i was seeing a very dark shade of red yesterday afternoon.

[Z1ggy16]

It's funny to me because obviously I know which "company" you're referring to, and it doesn't surprise me in the least bit. It's a shame really because you're a good dude, just trying to help people, but your manager/company is trying to turn a dime without any regard for the player, and ultimately their hard earned money.

 

My only question is: Do you think this "issue" goes away when you work with a private fitter? I.e, the local guy who owns his own shop and is not affiliated with any one single OEM? Or at the end of the day is he just going to push you what he gets wholesale deals on, especially things like upgraded shafts?

 

I still worry about that, which is why I really try to just fit myself. Not the best player as you know... but from this website and just reading a bunch, I know an okay amount of info on the products these days, and I know what types of feels work best for me. But...I still worry that I'm still gullible enough to get "talked into" product I don't really need at a retail/demo day type of situation or even at the local guy's shop.

[Night train]

Sad but not surprising in this day and age!

[Rory4Pres]

Thanks for sharing Gio guy. This doesnt' suprise me one bit. You'll see that in a lot of industries, not just golf. All you can do is stay true to yourself and do the best you can in any "difficult" circumstance. I think you handled both "issues" well. Hopefully your next company (and Boss) appreciate quality customer service and doing whats right for the end user.

[om18v]

Gee, I don't want to sound harsh but...

 

On your first incident, the way you explained it, it seems like some miscommunication between you and the buyer. Even if you "had txt messages from the two of us to prove it", apparently the customer did not agree on a meeting of the minds or had some other idea of the agreement. Customer is right.

 

On the second incident. You work for the company that had a club that fit the customer from the products that they offered. You chose to see the customer in something other than your employers product on hand. Sorry. Company wins. They pay the salary.

[RMGC_NV]

In the first scenario, did you receive the $50 from the pro shop directly, or did they just upcharge the customer and not pay you for the work YOU did?

[gioguy21]

Gee, I don't want to sound harsh but...

 

On your first incident, the way you explained it, it seems like some miscommunication between you and the buyer. Even if you "had txt messages from the two of us to prove it", apparently the customer did not agree on a meeting of the minds or had some other idea of the agreement. Customer is right.

 

On the second incident. You work for the company that had a club that fit the customer from the products that they offered. You chose to see the customer in something other than your employers product on hand. Sorry. Company wins. They pay the salary.

I told the customer in the first incident what I charge. He thought bc he was special I wouldn't charge him.

 

As for the second incident, I couldn't and wouldn't put him into a "good" fit instead of best fit. He is a very good, competitive junior (he won his first tourney with the driver I ACTUALLY fit him to btw) and i couldn't with a straight face say the best setup we had would be good for him in the long run, simple as that.

 

The pro KNEW what I was doing, played coward and didn't speak up during the process and instead went and said something to my boss. If u think that's fair, I can't help u - its deceitful.

 

In the first scenario, did you receive the $50 from the pro shop directly, or did they just upcharge the customer and not pay you for the work YOU did?

I was paid directly from the pro shop after delivering it.

[gioguy21]

Other info on the second scenario: I fit the kid, and he bought a 3w and utility club. The warranty made the driver fitting a net zero cost to the company anyway. *technically, his warranty replacement would have been a model below what he was fit for, and his dad paid the cost to 'upgrade' to the version he was fit for, $100.

[RobotDoctor]

I work in customer service, albeit in the Industrial Robotics manufacturing sector, so I fully understand gioguy21's desire to provide a customer with the very best service possible. I also understand how the type of "miscommunication" from the first instance can arise, having his happen to me many times during my 29 years as a technical field rep. I have learned to have documentation saved (emails, texts, whatever) because there will always be that one SOB who wants something for nothing and doesn't care who gets thrown on the tracks to get it. Unfortunately ethics and integrity has very little cost to some people, even at $50. With regard to the second scenario providing the customer the absolute best solution should ALWAYS be the goal of any customer service business. If an option that provides the absolute best performance is not available but can be procured and the customer leaves with complete satisfaction then I cannot see the harm in that. At the end of the day there are now two extremely satisfied customers who WILL continue to purchase products from the OEM. This is a classic case of "WIN-WIN" but it is unfortunate the boss here is too myopic to see the value of an employee who clearly understands what it means to provide the very best in customer service.

 

Believe me gioguy21, this is becoming a lost art. I am glad to see someone as young as you that clearly understands this art. You are the type of person I would prefer working for me. Best of luck and never compromise your ethics and integrity. Believe me, that will take you very far in your business. Best of luck!

[TollBros]

Gio, it's why I stopped working for the company I worked for, for years, and partially the reason I quit working for the major OEM I worked for before that. I was leaned on repeatedly to sell the products that were offered through the OEM for upgrade cost, or to fit players in to what was in existing inventory. I simply could not ethically operate in that manner and when I refused to do so, was told to look for another job unless I "got with the program". After two instances of near identical orders with two different companies, one public and one private, I almost left the industry entirely. After searching around, and going to a couple of the current premium fitting shops and realizing they do the same thing, just in selling the customer unnecessary services with massive mark ups just to pad the sale. My current boss Keith is all about getting the player in to the best possible fit for their game and simply won't carry anything outside of the absolute premium of products. He knows this costs us sales from the budget minded, but he won't compromise the company reputation for a dollar. I love this attitude and it makes coming to work every day a pleasure and something I can be proud of. You will find the right place that doesn't want to dupe the customer in some way to benefit themselves. There are some people in this industry with integrity who you will be proud to work for Gio. You may just need to move from South Florida to an arctic wonderland to find them. Oh wait, that's me. :tongue:

[gioguy21]

Gio, it's why I stopped working for the company I worked for, for years, and partially the reason I quit working for the major OEM I worked for before that. I was leaned on repeatedly to sell the products that were offered through the OEM for upgrade cost, or to fit players in to what was in existing inventory. I simply could not ethically operate in that manner and when I refused to do so, was told to look for another job unless I "got with the program". After two instances of near identical orders with two different companies, one public and one private, I almost left the industry entirely. After searching around, and going to a couple of the current premium fitting shops and realizing they do the same thing, just in selling the customer unnecessary services with massive mark ups just to pad the sale. My current boss Keith is all about getting the player in to the best possible fit for their game and simply won't carry anything outside of the absolute premium of products. He knows this costs us sales from the budget minded, but he won't compromise the company reputation for a dollar. I love this attitude and it makes coming to work every day a pleasure and something I can be proud of. You will find the right place that doesn't want to dupe the customer in some way to benefit themselves. There are some people in this industry with integrity who you will be proud to work for Gio. You may just need to move from South Florida to an arctic wonderland to find them. Oh wait, that's me. :tongue:

lol thanks JT -- i'd rather move from the 'dirty to florida lol

[Valtiel]

Props for putting the quality of your work in front of the bottom dollar. I've been fortunate enough, either due to understanding or just flat out lack of oversight :D to be able to take a similar approach in previous jobs so I respect that greatly.

[om18v]

Gee, I don't want to sound harsh but...

 

On your first incident, the way you explained it, it seems like some miscommunication between you and the buyer. Even if you "had txt messages from the two of us to prove it", apparently the customer did not agree on a meeting of the minds or had some other idea of the agreement. Customer is right.

 

On the second incident. You work for the company that had a club that fit the customer from the products that they offered. You chose to see the customer in something other than your employers product on hand. Sorry. Company wins. They pay the salary.

I told the customer in the first incident what I charge. He thought bc he was special I wouldn't charge him.

 

As for the second incident, I couldn't and wouldn't put him into a "good" fit instead of best fit. He is a very good, competitive junior (he won his first tourney with the driver I ACTUALLY fit him to btw) and i couldn't with a straight face say the best setup we had would be good for him in the long run, simple as that.

 

The pro KNEW what I was doing, played coward and didn't speak up during the process and instead went and said something to my boss. If u think that's fair, I can't help u - its deceitful.

 

In the first scenario, did you receive the $50 from the pro shop directly, or did they just upcharge the customer and not pay you for the work YOU did?

I was paid directly from the pro shop after delivering it.

 

I have worked in customer service. In the first incident it was about pleasing you, not the customer.

 

Second. "The kids father and i discussed me building the shaft outside of my company," Uh...

[gioguy21]

I have worked in customer service. In the first incident it was about pleasing you, not the customer.

 

Second. "The kids father and i discussed me building the shaft outside of my company," Uh...

 

agree to disagree, and the second - did you not read on? the kid/father bought a 3w and utility club. the driver was a net zero, but he was fit for a different more expensive model and paid the difference...

 

the shaft had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMPANY...b/c it was the correct fit. there wasn't a single club in the shaft matrix that i had that would be an ideal or even optimal choice. THAT is why i suggested something else, irrespective of the company i worked for. I didn't want the kid/father going to another company b/c of i didn't have in the matrix something that would work for him - but rather keep him with the same driver, but get him a proper shaft for him. just so happens what i had worked for him.

 

i texted his father at length after the demo day, paid for an adapter myself, and got the kid properly set with a shaft and grip that was to spec what he hit at the demo day, or in this case, my own personal one.

 

FURTHER - the pro was standing next to me, the entire time and knew what was going on. didn't say a f'in word, in fact, said the shaft i had was a much better fit for him.

[om18v]

I have worked in customer service. In the first incident it was about pleasing you, not the customer.

 

Second. "The kids father and i discussed me building the shaft outside of my company," Uh...

 

agree to disagree, and the second - did you not read on? the kid/father bought a 3w and utility club. the driver was a net zero, but he was fit for a different more expensive model and paid the difference...

 

the shaft had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMPANY...b/c it was the correct fit. there wasn't a single club in the shaft matrix that i had that would be an ideal or even optimal choice. THAT is why i suggested something else, irrespective of the company i worked for. I didn't want the kid/father going to another company b/c of i didn't have in the matrix something that would work for him - but rather keep him with the same driver, but get him a proper shaft for him. just so happens what i had worked for him.

 

i texted his father at length after the demo day, paid for an adapter myself, and got the kid properly set with a shaft and grip that was to spec what he hit at the demo day, or in this case, my own personal one.

 

FURTHER - the pro was standing next to me, the entire time and knew what was going on. didn't say a f'in word, in fact, said the shaft i had was a much better fit for him.

 

Please don't confuse my comments to think I am questioning your desire to help the customer or your experience as a fitter. What I'm saying is when you are working for an employer, your first loyalty is to them. If the customer approached you outside of the company setting and you offered to build a club, that is a different matter all together. If you see it differently, that's fine. Just go into business for yourself and don't steal your employers customers.

[gioguy21]

Please don't confuse my comments to think I am questioning your desire to help the customer or your experience as a fitter. What I'm saying is when you are working for an employer, your first loyalty is to them. If the customer approached you outside of the company setting and you offered to build a club, that is a different matter all together. If you see it differently, that's fine. Just go into business for yourself and don't steal your employers customers.

 

i can see you and i are on different wavelengths. no worries. both situations included outcomes that yielded me no gain of any sort. the $50 that the member 'paid' me was the cost of driving an hour each way to the course itself, fill for the driver, and whatever might've been left for the cost of my time. i did it for the first member b/c had i not filled the head, he wouldn't have bought anything else (to me, that's a sign that my company WAS my first priority...but you see it differently).

 

i didn't steal anything from my company or any company for that matter, ever.

[JimGantz]

I can see how the miscommunication could've come about in the first scenario. With written proof(texts), though, there's nothing the customer or your company should've been able to do or fall back to you on.

 

In regards to the second,kudos to you. Getting fit to help out the shop's or retailer's bottom line has always been a reason I've been skeptical to get fit without extensive research into the fitter first.

 

 

Much respect to you and I'm sure you'll be better off somewhere else.

[SC-TX 88]

Being a gentleman and doing the right thing is a lost art, props to you my friend.

[dpb5031]

Gio, sorry to hear this. I know from your posts that you are passionate about your trade and in both instances did everything possible to ensure an optimal fit for your customer(s).

 

The OEM should be appreciative of your efforts. A player who is fitted properly into his equipment is going to have better results and ultimately enjoy the product much more than a so-so fit. This leads to brand loyalty and repeat purchases, things that should be important to all OEMS.

[Jagpilotohio]

I have worked in customer service. In the first incident it was about pleasing you, not the customer.

 

Second. "The kids father and i discussed me building the shaft outside of my company," Uh...

 

agree to disagree, and the second - did you not read on? the kid/father bought a 3w and utility club. the driver was a net zero, but he was fit for a different more expensive model and paid the difference...

 

the shaft had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMPANY...b/c it was the correct fit. there wasn't a single club in the shaft matrix that i had that would be an ideal or even optimal choice. THAT is why i suggested something else, irrespective of the company i worked for. I didn't want the kid/father going to another company b/c of i didn't have in the matrix something that would work for him - but rather keep him with the same driver, but get him a proper shaft for him. just so happens what i had worked for him.

 

i texted his father at length after the demo day, paid for an adapter myself, and got the kid properly set with a shaft and grip that was to spec what he hit at the demo day, or in this case, my own personal one.

 

FURTHER - the pro was standing next to me, the entire time and knew what was going on. didn't say a f'in word, in fact, said the shaft i had was a much better fit for him.

 

Please don't confuse my comments to think I am questioning your desire to help the customer or your experience as a fitter. What I'm saying is when you are working for an employer, your first loyalty is to them. If the customer approached you outside of the company setting and you offered to build a club, that is a different matter all together. If you see it differently, that's fine. Just go into business for yourself and don't steal your employers customers.

 

There’s no way you actually read and digested the entire situation that has been presented. What you’re saying doesn’t even make sense.

[Llortamaisey]

Good deeds never go unpunished.

[Cwebb]

I hope you end up finding a gig with an "independent" company and don't have to work directly for one of these big companies again

[ebrasmus21]

Gio - I hope you find a way to help us hacks independent of an OEM. There are still good dudes like you out there but far to few.

[Pure745]

Gio - sorry to hear about this. I'm not in the golf industry but have a few connections in the golf industry. In general I've learned that truly "no good deed goes un-punished" with golfers, GolfWRX'ers, etc.. rarely will I ever extend a helping hand at this point unless I TRULY know the person. It's unfortunate that your genuine actions have had negative consequences, but it's part of the reason I'm at where I'm at with trying to "help" people :)

[gioguy21]

thanks fellas - i really do appreciate it. If i decide to fit again for someone/company - I'll do more to pay attention to the true intentions or motivations of my bosses, but i won't let this influence me to stop helping people as best i can, as honest i can.

[Pure745]

thanks fellas - i really do appreciate it. If i decide to fit again for someone/company - I'll do more to pay attention to the true intentions or motivations of my bosses, but i won't let this influence me to stop helping people as best i can, as honest i can.

 

Just go to a 3rd party fitter who really does care about expert/tour fitting their customers.. even then there are probably only a few really honest companies in that space. :)