Is the M4 ridiculously hard to Turn Over or is it just me????

[MichMan123]

Just you......had no issue snaphooking the piss out of it

 

not just me. Look at all the responses. 100 drives plus I never hit one snap hook.

[rxk9fan]

I play the M3 but agree with you. For me, it is a God send because of this. My miss under pressure use to be a hard hook. With at least 20 rounds under the M3 I do have to deal with a slight fade but yet to lose one OB.

I don't really have figured out as to why yet, but it does seem to set a little open at address?

I love it!

 

Two words...again.

 

"Twist Face "

 

I don't have any experience with golf club design, but I have a decent understanding of physics. Saying this, please don't consider this as argumentative but instead consider it as your opportunity to educate.

What design characteristic of twist face technology causes the effect of clockwise rotation that favors a fade vs counter clockwise rotation that would be indicative of a draw (for right handed players)? If a swing characteristically provides an inside to out path, I would think the ball would want to draw unless the club face is still open at contact imparting the clockwise rotation. I can understand a club setting open at address would always favor a fade. Does twist face technology include a face that is built "open "in some way?

[mallrat]

Are we just ignoring the false claim of a draw going further than a fade?

[b.mattay]

For me I found I could draw it more than other clubs due to the twist face (I tend to hit a little draw with a slightly heel contact point).

[Valtiel]

I play the M3 but agree with you. For me, it is a God send because of this. My miss under pressure use to be a hard hook. With at least 20 rounds under the M3 I do have to deal with a slight fade but yet to lose one OB.

I don't really have figured out as to why yet, but it does seem to set a little open at address?

I love it!

 

Two words...again.

 

"Twist Face "

 

"Twist Face" has nothing to do with a draw or fade if the player is striking the center of the face, all it is is a slightly tweaked bulge and roll. Even if they aren't striking the center, Twist Face does not prevent a draw or a cut but merely starts the ball further right on toe hits and further left on heel hits, so the ball still curves based on gear effect but with a better chance of not "over curving" because of the different launch angle.

[bladehunter]

I play the M3 but agree with you. For me, it is a God send because of this. My miss under pressure use to be a hard hook. With at least 20 rounds under the M3 I do have to deal with a slight fade but yet to lose one OB.

I don't really have figured out as to why yet, but it does seem to set a little open at address?

I love it!

 

Two words...again.

 

"Twist Face "

 

I don't have any experience with golf club design, but I have a decent understanding of physics. Saying this, please don't consider this as argumentative but instead consider it as your opportunity to educate.

What design characteristic of twist face technology causes the effect of clockwise rotation that favors a fade vs counter clockwise rotation that would be indicative of a draw (for right handed players)? If a swing characteristically provides an inside to out path, I would think the ball would want to draw unless the club face is still open at contact imparting the clockwise rotation. I can understand a club setting open at address would always favor a fade. Does twist face technology include a face that is built "open "in some way?

 

Yes. The toe section is more open. That’s the twist. This helps slow down the snap hook. And also kills the guy who hits inside out and high toe to get that little turn over with a squareish face. It’s now an open face. Because of twist effect. Larger heads are hard to hit a “real” draw with and in my experience a ton of players had gone to hitting it toeside to get it to turn over a bit. This Driver prevents that shot.

[moonshine]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

You sold it over 10 yards and were hitting fw's I assume?

[bladehunter]

Are we just ignoring the false claim of a draw going further than a fade?

 

Now we all know that’s a loaded argument too. Yes. If launch angles and strike are same and pure ,a fade and a draw curving the same amount in theory will go the same.

But. Most will hit a draw lower and get more roll with a draw than a fade. The “ power fade “ is pretty rare in the wild. But a running draw isn’t. So yes. You are correct , technically. But in practice generally a draw will go farther.

[MichMan123]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

You sold it over 10 yards and were hitting fw's I assume?

 

No I was shorter than Rogue and previous and M2 and I didn't like the flight. Also lost a ton of shots to the right.

[dpb5031]

I had the M4 and also struggled to turn it over reliably. It was a fairway finder, but my home course sets up for quite a few draws and I just couldn't get comfortable with it. As I said previously, it wants to sit open when you sole it and I think that was the biggest contributor.

 

I've since switched to the M3 and have no problem turning it over...even in 8.5 degrees of loft. The M3 is the most reliable driver I've used to date. TwistFace tech has noticeably helped keep my most common misses in the fairway. Great feel at impact as well!

[Kmac]

I bought one on Friday, took it out Saturday and then returned it Sunday. Back to the M3 which I found a lot easier to hit straight or draw. I could not hit a draw withe M4 either and hit some massive slices with it. Only thing I noticed was its a slightly longer overall than the M3 but just a tad. I literally did not hit anything straight and hated the feel. Just felt too light and never got in any kind of happy place with it.

[I.B. Golfin']

Agreed! Super hard to turn draw but easy enough to fade....I need balance! Good for a hooker tho

I was a hooker before now If I don't concentrate I hit it 56 yards to the right....

 

Precisely my case too. Except I went from a 2017 M2 D-Type (which I used to hit fine but at the time I could ALWAYS hit a fade, recently with the D-Type I couldn't fade the f%^er if I tried).

 

New M4 (regular) goes much higher, and also tends to fade more. No real 'troubles' turning it over, but my natural draw promotes a fade with this thing. Can't say I'm losing distance though, fade or draw it's longer than my previous M2.. :dntknw: :dntknw: :dntknw: :dntknw: :dntknw:

[manima1]

A driver that draws easily for me is dangerous. On a bad day that draw can turn into a snap hook which will frag the round. Also I find even a slightly overcooked draw hits and runs the wrong way and gets me in wayyy too much trouble.

 

Ideal driver ball flight is for me is a flat fade that runs when it hits the ground. In order to achieve that flight, I end up with a club setup that is difficult to draw - and I'm 100% ok with that. If the hole requires a draw, the 3HL comes out and I'm only really giving up a 10-20 yards in carry.

[Circaflex]

ill have to really keep an eye on this. My m2 was replaced via warranty and they sent me an m4, I was really hoping they had more m2s in stock still I loved that thing, I'll have to see if I notice less draws and/or more fades with it.

[Circaflex]

Are we just ignoring the false claim of a draw going further than a fade?

 

Now we all know that's a loaded argument too. Yes. If launch angles and strike are same and pure ,a fade and a draw curving the same amount in theory will go the same.

But. Most will hit a draw lower and get more roll with a draw than a fade. The " power fade " is pretty rare in the wild. But a running draw isn't. So yes. You are correct , technically. But in practice generally a draw will go farther.

You explained it so well. I've tried to explain this to one of our occasional golfing buddies, he is just such a meat head that he can't grasp it haha.

[garyt]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

You sold it over 10 yards and were hitting fw's I assume?

 

A consistent 10 yard loss is a lot. I'd definitely buy a new driver for a 10 yard gain.

[North Butte]

My last four rounds I have finally gotten a handle on some swing issues and I think I am getting a better sense of the M4’s tendencies. It may in fact be a hook-reducer like some people are claiming. A few of my best dives have been medium trajectory, good hang time lefty draws that move maybe 6, 8, 10 yards left to right through the air.

 

With my two previous drivers maybe one out of every three or four of those tended to keep hooking all the way across the fairway and end up well into the right rough. I can’t remember a shot doing that with the M4, my only misses to the right are OTT pulls or pull-hooks. Never the ball that starts out on a good line then hooks 20+ yards.

 

I have no idea about the supposed correction of necked slices. I almost literally never make impact toward the neck side of the face. I am the prototypical low-center to high-toe hacker, whether with an iron or a driver.

[MichMan123]

played a round with the Rogue last night - I like the flight so much more.

 

But yes I did hit one snapper on 18 and a few in the left trees - My normal iron shot is a low hook so Id rather be in the left trees than the right trees - in the right trees Im absolutely dead - I can't hit a cut.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

Wouldn't say hard to turn over but I'm hitting slight draws that end middle of fairway 9/10 times. Nothing wild right and I've got no issues with the fact the left side of the fairway is out of commission. First four holes at my course the trouble is along the right and I know it's not in play. That might sound odd but consistent middle/middle right fairway and I wouldn't dream of turning it over. Makes the game much easier.

[GoneFishing2340]

The first things I would check would be swingweight and face angle. Heavier swingweights can be harder for some people to turn over. Have you/did you alter the loft on your old M2?

 

I see you play MP-59s, you must be a cool dude

[Valtiel]

The first things I would check would be swingweight and face angle. Heavier swingweights can be harder for some people to turn over. Have you/did you alter the loft on your old M2?

 

I see you play MP-59s, you must be a cool dude

 

I can only vouch for the "dude" part. :D

[cj4501]

Interesting.... horrible snap hook here, might have to give tmag a try again. My fly z + spends more time in the woods then a sasquatch

[Whit1969]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

 

Save yourself some money and just pick up the 2016 M2. Easy to work both ways and less hook bias than the 2017 version. Until something better comes out the 2016 M2 will stay in the bag.

[North Butte]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

 

Save yourself some money and just pick up the 2016 M2. Easy to work both ways and less hook bias than the 2017 version. Until something better comes out the 2016 M2 will stay in the bag.

 

Or just wait until this winter and pick up a used 2018 M4 for a couple hundred bucks on eBay.

[ignitewvu]

i just sold it.

 

I'm not a fade player - hated the flight hated the look hated the 10 yard distance loss....

 

Ill eat my pride and play the Rogue even thought Im not a fan of Callaway the Rogue is a monster

 

Save yourself some money and just pick up the 2016 M2. Easy to work both ways and less hook bias than the 2017 version. Until something better comes out the 2016 M2 will stay in the bag.

 

Or just wait until this winter and pick up a used 2018 M4 for a couple hundred bucks on eBay.

 

No need to wait a popular Ebay golf outlet is selling M4's with Hzrdus's at auction. They claim they are used but mine was sealed, brand new with a Yellow paid 310 shipped.

 

In my experience the M4 9.5 retail head I own was close to 3 degree's OPEN from the factory.

 

That would explain a whole lot about it being hard to turn over. First TM driver I have moved to a higher setting ever. I do agree though the best M2/M4 head is clearly the OG M2.

[DonaldLarrys23]

The first things I would check would be swingweight and face angle. Heavier swingweights can be harder for some people to turn over. Have you/did you alter the loft on your old M2?

 

what he said. Said the same until I pulled the shaft in my 16 M2. Night and day.

[SnapHooker_307]

Interesting.... horrible snap hook here, might have to give tmag a try again. My fly z + spends more time in the woods then a sasquatch

Same. Hearing a club that is hard to turn over is peaking my curiosity. I might be able to swing hard again. Might have to take the M4 out for a spin. A new club would be much easier than fixing my busted swing.

[Valtiel]

To be clear, the ONLY things inherent in a driver head that could make it hard to turn over are a toe shifted CG that introduces more potential for fade gear effect spin and/or a very forward CG that can be difficult for some people to square due to feel. Everything else is either psychological or related to a spec outside of the head design (shaft, swing weight, balance point etc).

[ignitewvu]

To be clear, the ONLY things inherent in a driver head that could make it hard to turn over are a toe shifted CG that introduces more potential for fade gear effect spin and/or a very forward CG that can be difficult for some people to square due to feel. Everything else is either psychological or related to a spec outside of the head design (shaft, swing weight, balance point etc).

 

You forgot face angle, a wide open face say 3 degree's is gonna be harder to turn over than say a neutral face angle. Anyone who owns a M4 will tell you it is a neutral build, more so than the 2017M2. But, as I've stated the Face angles on the M4's & M3 440's all see really open this year & I mean really open.

[Valtiel]

To be clear, the ONLY things inherent in a driver head that could make it hard to turn over are a toe shifted CG that introduces more potential for fade gear effect spin and/or a very forward CG that can be difficult for some people to square due to feel. Everything else is either psychological or related to a spec outside of the head design (shaft, swing weight, balance point etc).

 

You forgot face angle, a wide open face say 3 degree's is gonna be harder to turn over than say a neutral face angle. Anyone who owns a M4 will tell you it is a neutral build, more so than the 2017M2. But, as I've stated the Face angles on the M4's & M3 440's all see really open this year & I mean really open.

 

If you address it with the face still open then sure, if you address the ball squarely though then it should not make a difference.