2019 S&D local rule application

Augster · June 19, 2018

I played with my friend last weekend. His drive it a tree and came back to us almost. Then he topped his second. Then his 3rd hit a tree about 200 yards ahead of us and we never found it. He didn’t feel like going back as this was the first hole and, as you can see, he wasn’t very happy with the way it was going.

I tried to remember how this new local rule goes.

Basically, the player just gathers all evidence and just guesses where he thinks it was lost? We knew what branch it hit, but after that, no idea.

In this case, would he just guess where it might be to start the “lines”, or should one of his lines run through the last known spot, which would be at the tree branch?

I’ve read the draft of the local rule and it says:

a. Ball reference point: The point where the original ball:

-is estimated to have come to rest on the course, or

-last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.

His ball wasn’t OB. We know that so the second part doesn’t matter. From the writing, it looks like he just estimates and goes from there.

Any help is appreciated.

wadesworld · June 19, 2018

Yep. Estimate the spot where the ball was lost. Now find the edge of the nearest fairway.

Drop in the wedge anywhere between 2 club lengths of those spots keeping each spot inline with the pin. Sounds complicated but it's really not. For most situations you're going to find the nearest edge of the fairway inline with the pin, no closer and drop within 2 club lengths.

See the video and diagram at:

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

Augster · June 19, 2018

Thanks for the help.

You are correct about the fairway drop. That’ll be the decision almost all the time, I’d think. Especially if you’re spending 2.

I suppose, in this case and other like cases, the player will just kind of guess how far the ball likely could have gone, then drop in the fairway at about that distance.

I’ve only seen the draft of the local rule. And I imagine players are supposed to be trusted to guess to the best of their ability. BUT, if you’ve ever searched for balls with most players, and someone finds the ball, the ball is almost always 20-50 yards behind where the player was looking. Because players are delusional about how far they hit it.

Will there be any recourse for these guys that drop 50-100 yards further up than most people think the ball would be? Especially after hitting something hard. Like the tree branch in my example. Or is it just “on your honor”. Afterall, He is spending 2 penalty strokes for the privilege of hitting in the fairway. :)

Thanks much.

wadesworld · June 20, 2018

I don't know. Nobody has been to a 2019 rules workshop yet (mine is in January).

I would imagine it's going to be the same situation as incorrectly guessing the point of last crossing of a hazard margin. Guy estimates it, takes his drop, hits and then suddenly his ball is found 20 yards behind where he drops. No penalty if there was a reasonable assumption it could have crossed where he dropped.

So if you see your ball hit a tree but nobody sees where it lands and you drop in the fairway just behind the tree and hit, no penalty if someone then finds your ball 40 yards farther back.

That's my guess.

Sawgrass · June 20, 2018

The actual wording says "fairway height or less" not "fairway" and this area must be on the hole being played (even if another hole's fairway is closer).

Shilgy · June 20, 2018

The actual wording says "fairway height or less" not "fairway" and this area must be on the hole being played (even if another hole's fairway is closer).

Thanks, I was about to ask. The nearest fairway" seemed incorrect.

Augster · June 20, 2018

Thanks!

The inclusion of it having to be your own fairway will create some very large “wedges” to drop in.

Though, I’d guess, 99% of the time the player will choose to drop within 2CL’s of the edge in his own fairway.

Sawgrass · June 20, 2018

Thanks!

The inclusion of it having to be your own fairway will create some very large "wedges" to drop in.

Though, I'd guess, 99% of the time the player will choose to drop within 2CL's of the edge in his own fairway.

Come 2019, the edges of all our fairways will soon be all worn out.

Augster · June 20, 2018

I hadn’t thought of that. Good point.

From reading this section over the years, I feel most golfers want to play “real golf” and post a “real score”. I feel most everyone sets out on that first tee to shoot their best and follow the rules. It’s when things go sideways that the most often abused rules get abused.

Picking up short putts. Not finishing out when they have a big number. And not going back to the previous location on lost balls.

With the new, nicer, ROG players can now post a “real score” if they are playing stroke play but with a “7-stroke max”, “8-stroke max” or whatever score they choose to pick up on before the day’s play. And lost balls. Take 2 and drop in the fairway. Really easy to remember and play to and keeps things moving.

And you can post a “real score” and tell your pals the real score you shot.

PapaJohick · June 20, 2018

well technically (unless it's changed since I last read it) the max score isnt just some number you put down/pick up on. net double bogey is going to replace the old ESC scoring which is for posting purposes. In a tournament, if you shoot 10 but your net double is a 6, you still score a 10 for the tournament, but when posting your score for your handicap, you should post a score of 4 less (if that round you shoot 90, you would post an 86 when posting handicap).

SNIPERBBB · June 20, 2018

Something that I would like to see contemplated, not sure if this is good or bad but since we are making the rules more warm and cuddly,on the proposed local rule is that for for the lost ball in bounds section, that the reference point to be the last known point. As in the OP where the ball hit the tree.

Sawgrass · June 20, 2018

well technically (unless it's changed since I last read it) the max score isnt just some number you put down/pick up on. net double bogey is going to replace the old ESC scoring which is for posting purposes. In a tournament, if you shoot 10 but your net double is a 6, you still score a 10 for the tournament, but when posting your score for your handicap, you should post a score of 4 less (if that round you shoot 90, you would post an 86 when posting handicap).

We should be sure to separate the Maximum Score format from ESC, as these two number may be different -- one used for the tournament and the other for posting.

The format can be read in the new Rules that are posted. Here's a segment:

R 21.2 Maximum Score

a. Overview of Maximum Score

Maximum Score is a form of stroke play where a player’s or side’s score for a hole is capped at a maximum number of strokes set by the Committee, such as two times par, a fixed number or net double bogey.

The normal Rules for stroke play in Rules 1-20 apply, as modified by these specific Rules. Rule 21.2 is written for:

• Scratch competitions, but can be adapted for handicap competitions as well, and

b. Scoring in Maximum Score

(1) Player’s Score on Hole. A player’s score for a hole is based on the player’s number of strokes (including strokes made and penalty strokes), except that the player will get only the maximum score even if the actual score exceeds the maximum.

Augster · June 20, 2018

Sawgrass has it correct. Don’t confuse posting and ESC with the new format of “Max Score Golf”. A committee can make that score anything they want it to be.

What you will be able to post is net double bogey max.

I agree with Sniper that the local rule should include in it “last known place on the course” and be done with just guessing. The player is likely dropping in the fairway anyway so using “last known place” is more fair IMO, as it’ll be easier to reach an agreement.