Maltby TS2

[tripnipp]

This is a great thread; thanks to all who keep it rolling.

I've been playing Maltby irons for even longer (10+ years).

My KE4 Tour+ are nearly the perfect iron for me - love that VCOG placement & toe side forgiveness.

I have been inner debating for months on "upgrading" to the TS IM1s but have ultimately talked myself out of it, because... why?

The Tour+ are just dumb forgiving on less than decent strikes & guessing that CDim & MOI difference has legitimate significance compared to the IM1s.

Speaking into the ether now, hoping for a manifestation...

Would be really amazing for an updated Tour+ with clean/minimal cosmetics & a refined leading edge/sole design...🤞

[mynameisntshawn]

2 hours ago, ApostateDrive said:

Idk if posting links is allowed or not, but there is a set of TS1's that hit the 'Bay this morning for a pretty good price and the seller looks like they're taking offers. 

The black MG wedges that are on there really make me wish they’d bring that design/finish back. I need a 60 instead of a 52 or I would buy the ones listed.

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, tripnipp said:

This is a great thread; thanks to all who keep it rolling.

I've been playing Maltby irons for even longer (10+ years).

My KE4 Tour+ are nearly the perfect iron for me - love that VCOG placement & toe side forgiveness.

I have been inner debating for months on "upgrading" to the TS IM1s but have ultimately talked myself out of it, because... why?

The Tour+ are just dumb forgiving on less than decent strikes & guessing that CDim & MOI difference has legitimate significance compared to the IM1s.

Speaking into the ether now, hoping for a manifestation...

Would be really amazing for an updated Tour+ with clean/minimal cosmetics & a refined leading edge/sole design...🤞

 

Since it sounds like they fit you really well...and with the price currently holding at just $25 per, I'd get another set

[iamlowsound]

4 hours ago, mynameisntshawn said:

The black MG wedges that are on there really make me wish they’d bring that design/finish back. I need a 60 instead of a 52 or I would buy the ones listed.

Updated wedges based on that design are due in the spring. 

 

https://ralphmaltby.com/questions/question/te-and-tour-grind-mg-replacement/

[mynameisntshawn]

33 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

Updated wedges based on that design are due in the spring. 

 

https://ralphmaltby.com/questions/question/te-and-tour-grind-mg-replacement/

That’s great intel! I can hold off until then. Maybe save my pennies for a blackout build.

[Popeye64]

11 hours ago, iamlowsound said:

Updated wedges based on that design are due in the spring. 

 

https://ralphmaltby.com/questions/question/te-and-tour-grind-mg-replacement/

Sounds like if you can't find a fit in 15 different combinations,, you'll never find the right wedge. 

[ChaosTheory]

23 hours ago, KCEE said:

KE4 Max:  Slapped together a 5i head on Recoil 110.  I have not been hitting a 5i well, but man I crushed this thing. 

 

I have tried to not want the Max.  After all, it doesn't have a hollow head injected with poon.  But it sure sounds like they have done some things right on this model.  I'm still playing my TS2's, and am satisfied.   Hmmmmm.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Snowman9000

[ApostateDrive]

9 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

I have tried to not want the Max.  After all, it doesn't have a hollow head injected with poon.  But it sure sounds like they have done some things right on this model.  I'm still playing my TS2's, and am satisfied.   Hmmmmm.

 

The Max have a shockingly hot feeling face for not being a hollow, injected head. Definitely worth trying out.

[propman]

The Max irons have been in the bag all year with 1 exception, a TS3 gw which I might replace with a max gw.

Max irons are stupid easy to hit which fits my game to a tee the last few yrs.

 

[KCEE]

Went to the range again last night and brought the TS1, TS1-IM, TS3 and KE4 Max along with my P770 gamers and Apex Pro 16 6i.  As good as my swing was the previous night, it was that bad this time.  You name the bad shot, I probably hit it.  A LOT of thin shots which has been a problem for me the last 2 seasons and strange since for years my miss would be fat.  Maybe old age is keeping me from staying down?  Any way it did help prove out that the TS3 (or maybe KE4 Max) could be the best choice for me as they are more forgiving....although I was so thin at times that no club would help.  Still I had misses that were playable enough from those clubs.  I was hoping for more noticeable forgiveness from the TS1 and TS1-IM vs the P770, but I wasn't really seeing it in either of the last 2 range sessions.  Maybe the launch monitor would show otherwise.  Still they are at least as forgiving as a much more expensive OEM iron.

 

I may also have proved that, despite getting older, I still need my clubs to be heavier.  The least forgiving Apex Pro 16 seemed easier to hit more consistently.  It's about 25-30g heavier than the P770 and other clubs.  The TS3 was built a bit heavier (~ 10g) than the TS1 and TS1-IM and that may have helped.  The KE4 Max 5i was built much closer in weight to the Apex Pro and I hit that better than the other 6 irons which is not like me to hit a longer club better.  I'll have to try playing around with the total weight and looking at MOI to see if I can dial that in and if it truly helps.

 

Pics of the TS1, TS1-IM and TS3 at address and soles.  

  

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

Sounds like if you can't find a fit in 15 different combinations,, you'll never find the right wedge. 

 

There will still be those who blame the grind or lack of one, for their struggles

[Sparkey67]

Almost every person I've seen that hits a thin shot was trying to help the ball get up in the air. Either by flipping their wrists or lifting their hands.

 

It ALWAYS has the opposite effect.

 

Stay down and swing thru the shot.  If you watch the club head travel thru the ball you should rarely hit thin shots.

[KCEE]

2 hours ago, ApostateDrive said:

The Max have a shockingly hot feeling face for not being a hollow, injected head. Definitely worth trying out.

It really does have a hot almost springy feel to it, but yet it is solid.  I tried out someone else's Tour Edge Hot Launch 5i which was hollow and almost hybrid like and it was pretty easy to hit and also felt kind of hot, but it did not have that nice solid muted sound/feel that the Max has.  Maybe it's 17-4 SS of the Max and/or not being hollow, but it's a nicer feel/sound IMO.

[ApostateDrive]

5 minutes ago, KCEE said:

It really does have a hot almost springy feel to it, but yet it is solid.  I tried out someone else's Tour Edge Hot Launch 5i which was hollow and almost hybrid like and it was pretty easy to hit and also felt kind of hot, but it did not have that nice solid muted sound/feel that the Max has.  Maybe it's 17-4 SS of the Max and/or not being hollow, but it's a nicer feel/sound IMO.

 

You summed it up quite well. It's got a very satisfying spring like a hybrid, but with the nice muted thwack of an iron. Very fun clubs to hit.

[KCEE]

14 minutes ago, Sparkey67 said:

Almost every person I've seen that hits a thin shot was trying to help the ball get up in the air. Either by flipping their wrists or lifting their hands.

According to the pro it's mainly my setup and takeaway. I am slouching at address and then jerking the club away rather than making a turn.  Then I fall back on my heels in the downswing.  I did find at the end of the session I was standing a bit taller and when I set up with a closed stance I would turn rather than sway and I started hitting good shots.  It's just frustrating when you can't even get it right at the range.  

[taki27]

22 hours ago, tripnipp said:

This is a great thread; thanks to all who keep it rolling.

I've been playing Maltby irons for even longer (10+ years).

My KE4 Tour+ are nearly the perfect iron for me - love that VCOG placement & toe side forgiveness.

I have been inner debating for months on "upgrading" to the TS IM1s but have ultimately talked myself out of it, because... why?

The Tour+ are just dumb forgiving on less than decent strikes & guessing that CDim & MOI difference has legitimate significance compared to the IM1s.

Speaking into the ether now, hoping for a manifestation...

Would be really amazing for an updated Tour+ with clean/minimal cosmetics & a refined leading edge/sole design...🤞

I’ve been begging for that for years.  I swapped my KE4 Tour+ for the TS1 and I think I like the KE4 better.  I have no issues with the leading edge but if they could make a clean look like the TS series, just with an adjustable weight, I would be the first to buy a set.

[ApostateDrive]

9 minutes ago, taki27 said:

I’ve been begging for that for years.  I swapped my KE4 Tour+ for the TS1 and I think I like the KE4 better.  I have no issues with the leading edge but if they could make a clean look like the TS series, just with an adjustable weight, I would be the first to buy a set.

 

I'd be onboard with this as well. The KE4 Max come the closest to a clean iron with adjustable weight, but they're still too GI looking for my preferences 

[tripnipp]

19 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Since it sounds like they fit you really well...and with the price currently holding at just $25 per, I'd get another set

@Cwebb - yeah I'm debating. BTW, as a lurker, your posts are among the few I actually stop & read.

For the record.. I did say "nearly" perfect.

I'd love a bit more bounce & possibly a thinner sole; which leads me to wonder about Maltby's design philosophy when it comes to bounce on irons..

They seem to be all about "forgiveness" when it comes to VCOG & CDIM, but bounce is relatively "low" across their offerings.

While I get it could be an issue for sweepers, my guess is that the vast majority of golfers are more steep & bounce would only help..

But maybe the thought is bounce doesn't matter on full swings since the ball should already be gone at turf interaction.. I dunno..

 

Regarding the Tour+, I'm wondering if any of the new offerings cover that niche..

The MAX seems like the easy answer, but to me the offset is significantly different & while I haven't hit or compared in person, the sole & topline widths appear larger even if the spec says that isn't the case.. Also, aren't 17-4 & 431 steels pretty dramatically different in the "feel" department & finish cosmetics??

 

Perhaps the TS2 with weakened lofts are a substitute option? - but that topline might be atrocious..

Anyone know the relationship of weakening loft & offset reduction?

Anyone got in hand pic comparisons of Tour+/TS2/MAX

 

[iamlowsound]

6 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

Sounds like if you can't find a fit in 15 different combinations,, you'll never find the right wedge. 

48°, 50°, 52°, 54°, 56°, 58°, 60°; there are seven combinations already. I'm sure that Britt is counting differently but giving each of those two different bounces has you at 14. I hope he's talking about 15 combinations for each loft, because then you are in Volkey territory for options. I just want a 54° with 14° of bounce, and a bunch of heel relief. Perfect for a general use wedge for me. 

[iamlowsound]

3 hours ago, KCEE said:

Went to the range again last night and brought the TS1, TS1-IM, TS3 and KE4 Max along with my P770 gamers and Apex Pro 16 6i.  As good as my swing was the previous night, it was that bad this time.  You name the bad shot, I probably hit it.  A LOT of thin shots which has been a problem for me the last 2 seasons and strange since for years my miss would be fat.  Maybe old age is keeping me from staying down?  Any way it did help prove out that the TS3 (or maybe KE4 Max) could be the best choice for me as they are more forgiving....although I was so thin at times that no club would help.  Still I had misses that were playable enough from those clubs.  I was hoping for more noticeable forgiveness from the TS1 and TS1-IM vs the P770, but I wasn't really seeing it in either of the last 2 range sessions.  Maybe the launch monitor would show otherwise.  Still they are at least as forgiving as a much more expensive OEM iron.

 

I may also have proved that, despite getting older, I still need my clubs to be heavier.  The least forgiving Apex Pro 16 seemed easier to hit more consistently.  It's about 25-30g heavier than the P770 and other clubs.  The TS3 was built a bit heavier (~ 10g) than the TS1 and TS1-IM and that may have helped.  The KE4 Max 5i was built much closer in weight to the Apex Pro and I hit that better than the other 6 irons which is not like me to hit a longer club better.  I'll have to try playing around with the total weight and looking at MOI to see if I can dial that in and if it truly helps.

 

Pics of the TS1, TS1-IM and TS3 at address and soles.  

  

The thins are likely caused by you swaying back on backswing and not getting your weight forward. Causing you to flip at the ball while losing posture/spine angle. If you maintain spine angle you'll fat it. Ask me how I know. Hint, that's my issue. Focus on keeping your weight on your front foot throughout your swing, helps you to not sway. 

[iamlowsound]

1 hour ago, tripnipp said:

@Cwebb - yeah I'm debating. BTW, as a lurker, your posts are among the few I actually stop & read.

For the record.. I did say "nearly" perfect.

I'd love a bit more bounce & possibly a thinner sole; which leads me to wonder about Maltby's design philosophy when it comes to bounce on irons..

They seem to be all about "forgiveness" when it comes to VCOG & CDIM, but bounce is relatively "low" across their offerings.

While I get it could be an issue for sweepers, my guess is that the vast majority of golfers are more steep & bounce would only help..

But maybe the thought is bounce doesn't matter on full swings since the ball should already be gone at turf interaction.. I dunno..

 

Regarding the Tour+, I'm wondering if any of the new offerings cover that niche..

The MAX seems like the easy answer, but to me the offset is significantly different & while I haven't hit or compared in person, the sole & topline widths appear larger even if the spec says that isn't the case.. Also, aren't 17-4 & 431 steels pretty dramatically different in the "feel" department & finish cosmetics??

 

Perhaps the TS2 with weakened lofts are a substitute option? - but that topline might be atrocious..

Anyone know the relationship of weakening loft & offset reduction?

Anyone got in hand pic comparisons of Tour+/TS2/MAX

 

All of Maltby's new iron designs have a radius on the sole, which is perfect for turf interaction. If you've ever hit a Srixon iron or hear people talk about the amazing turf interaction that Srixons have, then you'll know what I'm talking about. The Maltby irons have a very similar sole. A preworn leading edge with a radius on the sole MA es the iron glide through the turf. I'm steep and have zero issues with my TS1 irons. If you don't trust me, trust @Popeye64 because he's also steep and will say the same thing. 

[enfuego]

The mirrored finish on the Max does a decent job of hiding the bigger offset and top line compared to other heads with those dimensions. I believe blade length isn't that much more than the players irons.

[Cwebb]

4 hours ago, tripnipp said:

@Cwebb - yeah I'm debating. BTW, as a lurker, your posts are among the few I actually stop & read.

For the record.. I did say "nearly" perfect.

I'd love a bit more bounce & possibly a thinner sole; which leads me to wonder about Maltby's design philosophy when it comes to bounce on irons..

They seem to be all about "forgiveness" when it comes to VCOG & CDIM, but bounce is relatively "low" across their offerings.

While I get it could be an issue for sweepers, my guess is that the vast majority of golfers are more steep & bounce would only help..

But maybe the thought is bounce doesn't matter on full swings since the ball should already be gone at turf interaction.. I dunno..

 

Regarding the Tour+, I'm wondering if any of the new offerings cover that niche..

The MAX seems like the easy answer, but to me the offset is significantly different & while I haven't hit or compared in person, the sole & topline widths appear larger even if the spec says that isn't the case.. Also, aren't 17-4 & 431 steels pretty dramatically different in the "feel" department & finish cosmetics??

 

Perhaps the TS2 with weakened lofts are a substitute option? - but that topline might be atrocious..

Anyone know the relationship of weakening loft & offset reduction?

Anyone got in hand pic comparisons of Tour+/TS2/MAX

 

 

They always take into consideration the effective bounce for everything.  Sometimes the actual bounce numbers can be deceiving, which is why some companies have gone away from posting those specs for irons. 

 

Any time a sole is wider, has more radius from front to back, and or a leading edge "grind" or radius, it will increase the effective bounce and make the spec number play higher.

 

While some players could benefit from more effective bounce on their irons, the Golfworks probably wants to remain in a more middle ground for most of their iron designs.  They have tried some higher bounce on a couple of their recent designs in the past.  Not sure how that was received overall, but it does show they are open to the idea.  With that said, all of their newer releases have more effective bounce then they had on average with their irons in the past.

 

Since they decided to continue on with the Tour+ in production, they still probably view it as a current offering, so not sure if there is a pressing demand to make any changes to it.  That's one of the differences between a component company vs the big names,...they don't always release new designs every year, just to say they have something new with a current flavor of graphics.  If a design is working, filling a demand, and selling, they will strongly consider keeping it available for an extended period of time.

 

I don't consider the TS2 as a close "replacement" for the KE4+.  Adding 2* of loft to an iron/wedge will decrease offset by about .75 millimeter...and will increase bounce by that same 2*.  17-4 is harder than 431 steel, making it more difficult to bend and for some players creates a firmer feel.   Though with a really good design, like the Ping Eye's and the Max from Maltby, they are easy to hit solid and forgiving, so that can cover most of what would otherwise be a firm feel

Edited October 5, 2023 by Cwebb

[Cwebb]

4 hours ago, taki27 said:

I’ve been begging for that for years.  I swapped my KE4 Tour+ for the TS1 and I think I like the KE4 better.  I have no issues with the leading edge but if they could make a clean look like the TS series, just with an adjustable weight, I would be the first to buy a set.

 

The leading edge height and effective bounce is higher than most assume on the Tour+.  When setup in a spec gauge where we can really see how the leading sits and the effective bounce, the leading edge is not that low to the ground line.  There's enough width and radius from front to back, to pull up that front edge.  Just not a "killed" or ground edge, which has become popular and what can be more noticeable to the eye.  It's not a higher effective bounce iron, but it's also not a low one.

 

An option to change the look on the KE4 Tour+, is to remove the medallion in the cavity and replace that small amount of weight with some lead tape in there.  If you would prefer a more plain "industrial" look

[taki27]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

The leading edge height and effective bounce is higher than most assume on the Tour+.  When setup in a spec gauge where we can really see how the leading sits and the effective bounce, the leading edge is not that low to the ground line.  There's enough width and radius from front to back, to pull up that front edge.  Just not a "killed" or ground edge, which has become popular and what can be more noticeable to the eye.  It's not a higher effective bounce iron, but it's also not a low one.

 

An option to change the look on the KE4 Tour+, is to remove the medallion in the cavity and replace that small amount of weight with some lead tape in there.  If you would prefer a more plain "industrial" look

I have tried everything on the cavity from pulling and using lead tape and then just lead taping over part of the medallion and then light sanding and paint removing.  I like a minimal look.  I even replaced the black MALTBY paint fill with silver paint fill to make it less noticeable.  

[Popeye64]

I brought out some TS4 clubs to go against the PTM Blacks. I've found the TS4s to be a bit spinny for me and wanted to see an in play result. 

These are two nearly identical swings. Baby cut, 165y 7 irons. Ball was a -Prov1x. 

The TS4 spun back nearly 12'. The PTM spun back 2'. I repeated this on a few holes and the TS4 spun back greater every time. 

I do have to say that the TS4 PW just seems to have some serious pop to it. Even a 3/4 swing just goes and SPINS. 

If you look close you can see both ball marks. TS4 was dead pin high. PTM was just above by 4'. 

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Popeye64 said:

I brought out some TS4 clubs to go against the PTM Blacks. I've found the TS4s to be a bit spinny for me and wanted to see an in play result. 

These are two nearly identical swings. Baby cut, 165y 7 irons. Ball was a -Prov1x. 

The TS4 spun back nearly 12'. The PTM spun back 2'. I repeated this on a few holes and the TS4 spun back greater every time. 

I do have to say that the TS4 PW just seems to have some serious pop to it. Even a 3/4 swing just goes and SPINS. 

If you look close you can see both ball marks. TS4 was dead pin high. PTM was just above by 4'. 

 

Could be explained by newer grooves vs used grooves?

[iamlowsound]

2 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

I brought out some TS4 clubs to go against the PTM Blacks. I've found the TS4s to be a bit spinny for me and wanted to see an in play result. 

These are two nearly identical swings. Baby cut, 165y 7 irons. Ball was a -Prov1x. 

The TS4 spun back nearly 12'. The PTM spun back 2'. I repeated this on a few holes and the TS4 spun back greater every time. 

I do have to say that the TS4 PW just seems to have some serious pop to it. Even a 3/4 swing just goes and SPINS. 

If you look close you can see both ball marks. TS4 was dead pin high. PTM was just above by 4'. 

I agree with @Cwebb that newer grooves could play a role. Also, the Pro-V1x left dash is a low spinning but high launching ball. Which means that it will have a higher descent angle and spin back more. If you want to play the TS4 you could try a ball like the AVX which is low spinning and low launching. It shouldn't back up as much as the Pro-V1x left dash. 

 

Of course, if you are happy with the PTM than it doesn't matter. 

[Popeye64]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Could be explained by newer grooves vs used grooves?

That's a possibility but the Blacks are low mileage and those grooves hardly ever wear. There is a stark difference. 

When I say the two balls were identical they would have over lapped in a tracer view. 

I'll spend some more time tinkering. 

[Cwebb]

56 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

That's a possibility but the Blacks are low mileage and those grooves hardly ever wear. There is a stark difference. 

When I say the two balls were identical they would have over lapped in a tracer view. 

I'll spend some more time tinkering. 

 

Different shafts?