Maltby TS2

[ThinkingPlus]

19 minutes ago, golfschnell said:

I respectfully disagree, The TS-4 is not remotely close to the STANDARD Apex in appearance, size, forgiveness or performance. I played the Apex pros and standard Apex since 2014. I have built sets and played TS-3, Ts-1M, and TS-4.  The Ts-3 is definitely closest thing Maltby makes to the standard Apex, although it blows it away in feel and looks.  The Ts-1M is closest to the apex pro. The TS-4 is a great iron for very good players but is not in the same category as the standard Apex.

The TS2 is probably closest in performance to the CF16s based on the measured data. It has the highest AVCOG and about the same MOI. However, the TS2 will be quite a bit easier to hit. Much easier to elevate and much less likely to shank. I think the CF16s have more bounce so turf interaction will be different.

[Spinozist]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:41 AM, KCEE said:

I agree static weight probably is the most important.  I have been able to go a bit lighter with matching MOI, but too light and I'll get too quick.  And yes matching the MOI of your woods to your irons usually doesn't work.  IIRC my current set has the 5-P + hybrid matched and then the 4w and driver are a bit different. 

 

I have been trying to go a bit lighter as I get older (and heavier) and matching MOI of the older club, but with a lighter overall weight has worked.

I've been doing the same. The one challenge is the paucity of grips with lighter weights. I think my current set of irons is the last where I want to have 50g grips, and my hybrids and woods are already around 35g. But there aren't many midsize but lightweight grip options. I feel there is a future market there.

[iamlowsound]

15 hours ago, bigdriveandy said:

Can someone make a comparison to which of the current Malby TS models plays and feels most like a Callaway Apex? Just the regular CF16 or 19 model if you can (as those were the ones I played and loved.) Other iron sets I've got along with are bridgestone j38 dual pocket cavity, Cobra SS forged, ping i5/i120, and the Srixon z545. 

 

I'm looking for butter soft, a playable med-wide sole, a bit of blade length, not too much offset, and not too "hot" face where i could get low spin flyers.

You described the TS3. Solid forging, longer blade, good feel, minimal offset, and as a solid forging there are no low spin fliers.
 

However, my opinion is that fliers are from lie and not clubs 100% of the time. I hit my seven iron 193 yards out of the rough yesterday when it's usually my 165 club. I had 165 to the front and 180 pin, the ball was down in the rough but it wasn't thick so it was easy to get the club on but there was grass between the ball and club at impact. I knew it would come out jumpy because of the lie, it just rolled more than I thought.  

 

People who get fliers off the fairway are usually mid handicap players and mid handicap players tend to play hollow irons for the look. Mid handicap players generally have all the parts of a decent swing but struggle to put them together consistently. So they manage to put a good swing AND hit the sweet spot, then the ball goes an extra 10-15 yards and they think it's a flier. The reality is that they just hit a good shot and aren't used to that. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by iamlowsound
Clarity

[iamlowsound]

13 minutes ago, Spinozist said:

I've been doing the same. The one challenge is the paucity of grips with lighter weights. I think my current set of irons is the last where I want to have 50g grips, and my hybrids and woods are already around 35g. But there aren't many midsize but lightweight grip options. I feel there is a future market there.

You could use a light standard size grip and 3-4 wraps of tape if you need the size with the light weight. 

[ApostateDrive]

35 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

People who get fliers off the fairway are usually mid handicap players and mid handicap players tend to play hollow irons for the look. Mid handicap players generally have all the parts of a decent swing but struggle to put them together consistently. So they manage to put a good swing AND hit the sweet spot, then the ball goes an extra 10-15 yards and they think it's a flier. The reality is that they just hit a good shot and aren't used to that. 

 

A la my last post about my range trip with the KE4 Max. Thought I was hitting it well all this time, until I truly pured one and it went an extra 10 yards. Being in the purgatory that is mid-handicap is an emotional roller coaster. Every shot has an equal chance to be shanked or striped. 

[Spinozist]

2 hours ago, iamlowsound said:

You could use a light standard size grip and 3-4 wraps of tape if you need the size with the light weight. 

True, but it would still be nice to have more options. For some there's a feel difference between proper midsize grips and a "stretched" standard. 

[NRJyzr]

5 hours ago, iamlowsound said:

You described the TS3. Solid forging, longer blade, good feel, minimal offset, and as a solid forging there are no low spin fliers.
 

However, my opinion is that fliers are from lie and not clubs 100% of the time. I hit my seven iron 193 yards out of the rough yesterday when it's usually my 165 club. I had 165 to the front and 180 pin, the ball was down in the rough but it wasn't thick so it was easy to get the club on but there was grass between the ball and club at impact. I knew it would come out jumpy because of the lie, it just rolled more than I thought.  

 

People who get fliers off the fairway are usually mid handicap players and mid handicap players tend to play hollow irons for the look. Mid handicap players generally have all the parts of a decent swing but struggle to put them together consistently. So they manage to put a good swing AND hit the sweet spot, then the ball goes an extra 10-15 yards and they think it's a flier. The reality is that they just hit a good shot and aren't used to that. 

 

This seems to be a popular sentiment, but it ignores the number of better players who experience the exact same thing.  Such as fellow WRX member bladehunter with the i500 he formerly played.

 

The phenomenon is a product of spin reduction due to hitting the ball a bit above the CG, combined with the affected player's spin profile being in a zone such that the reduction seen from that slightly higher on the clubface contact results in an effective flier, without the grass/water/etc that normally creates a flier.

 

Brother bladehunter has spoken of reproducing the effect on demand,  for the odd tee shot.

 

[iamlowsound]

52 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

This seems to be a popular sentiment, but it ignores the number of better players who experience the exact same thing.  Such as fellow WRX member bladehunter with the i500 he formerly played.

 

The phenomenon is a product of spin reduction due to hitting the ball a bit above the CG, combined with the affected player's spin profile being in a zone such that the reduction seen from that slightly higher on the clubface contact results in an effective flier, without the grass/water/etc that normally creates a flier.

 

Brother bladehunter has spoken of reproducing the effect on demand,  for the odd tee shot.

 

Yeah, but you can do that with any club not just hollow headed clubs. I'm referring to the notion that hollow headed clubs are more likely to cause fliers. There was a lot of discussion about that when the original P790 iron came out. 

[NRJyzr]

34 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

Yeah, but you can do that with any club not just hollow headed clubs. I'm referring to the notion that hollow headed clubs are more likely to cause fliers. There was a lot of discussion about that when the original P790 iron came out. 

 

They *are* more susceptible, but only because they tend to produce lower spin than solid piece clubheads (for lack of a better descriptive).  Gross generalization, of course.  🙂

 

Not all hollow clubheads that have this issue, the TS1 is reputed to produce a bit more spin, and would be less susceptible. 

 

[ChaosTheory]

For me, certain lower spin balls can give clean lie short iron flyers with my TS2s.  I must be at the threshold of not enough spin with those pairings.  I switch to premium balls and the flyers do not happen.  So it’s not swing variations.

[iamlowsound]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

They *are* more susceptible, but only because they tend to produce lower spin than solid piece clubheads (for lack of a better descriptive).  Gross generalization, of course.  🙂

 

Not all hollow clubheads that have this issue, the TS1 is reputed to produce a bit more spin, and would be less susceptible. 

 

As a proud TS1 player, I can attest that they spin really well! My 7i sits around 6,500, which is perfect for stopping on greens (when my aim is good). I've often struggled with not enough spin on approach shots and the TS1 have greatly helped in that regard. Of course, I struggle with too much spin on my driver so....

[NRJyzr]

37 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

Of course, I struggle with too much spin on my driver

 

I feel your pain...

 

[Thefonzzz]

22 hours ago, Spinozist said:

I've been doing the same. The one challenge is the paucity of grips with lighter weights. I think my current set of irons is the last where I want to have 50g grips, and my hybrids and woods are already around 35g. But there aren't many midsize but lightweight grip options. I feel there is a future market there.

Your options are GP light at 25, Winn light at 22-33 or the LT 42 - 47 or  jumbo max! If gone down that rabbit hole. I discovered that SW doesn’t matter that much, it’s more about overall weight and head weight . 

[Thefonzzz]

Went to the driving range, ltdx4 iron head on lost and found table and a kbx 90 tylormade by fst 38.5 inch. Ok, check out the mpv, very good forgiving iron head! Ok, glued it up SW c2, put 4 strips of LT on back of head, sw c7.5, low because it’s a super 18.5 degree crazy 4 iron head, so I want some height, right! 
played a game Friday, never hit this iron before, best long iron if ever hit lol!!! Green on pare 5 second shot 6 yards past hole, drive 223, perfect draw down the fairway, incredible!

Edited August 13, 2023 by Thefonzzz

[iamlowsound]

12 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I feel your pain...

 

Nothing like hitting a good drive that's on the wrong fairway and over trees. 

 

[Thefonzzz]

17 hours ago, iamlowsound said:

Yeah, but you can do that with any club not just hollow headed clubs. I'm referring to the notion that hollow headed clubs are more likely to cause fliers. There was a lot of discussion about that when the original P790 iron came out. 

I played the Mizuno 225 for the last year with some success, selling them asap when the mpv came out! Always trying to hit it with more lag compression and a couple of times trying to go 160 on the 7, pured it flying the green at 176, 9 iron going for 140, pured 160, I don’t think it’s the hollow headed clubs but absolutely a perfect pro strike! That is the conundrum, improving your game, I was used to great distance control with my dbm’s , 110,120,130,140, little compression but now dealing with improving, hitting I’d great and what’s your distance???

[TDHawk]

18 hours ago, iamlowsound said:

Yeah, but you can do that with any club not just hollow headed clubs. I'm referring to the notion that hollow headed clubs are more likely to cause fliers. There was a lot of discussion about that when the original P790 iron came out. 

I had the original hollow body PXG 0211 irons a few years back. Every once in a while I would get a shockingly long flyer. Not often. Not out of the rough. No obvious cause. I’m personally convinced that hollow body irons can be susceptible to the occasional flyer (one every couple of rounds). Since I don’t make my living playing golf, it is not a deal breaker.

[iamlowsound]

12 minutes ago, Thefonzzz said:

I played the Mizuno 225 for the last year with some success, selling them asap when the mpv came out! Always trying to hit it with more lag compression and a couple of times trying to go 160 on the 7, pured it flying the green at 176, 9 iron going for 140, pured 160, I don’t think it’s the hollow headed clubs but absolutely a perfect pro strike! That is the conundrum, improving your game, I was used to great distance control with my dbm’s , 110,120,130,140, little compression but now dealing with improving, hitting I’d great and what’s your distance???

Hey, at least you can probably stop a shot better with more compression!

[Thefonzzz]

On a roll, just have to mention, only started plying 5 years ago at 50, shooting around +9, 4 birdies Friday , 2 double B’s, 1 triple, still broke 80, right now playing PTM’s 125 fst, g-7 (hit them great, controlling flight more for the first time) 6 and 5 is terrible with the 125’s, going to be at the Golfworks in two weeks for my first fitting? Don’t have a clue on what shave I am going to end up with but hitting a scratchy for $500, I am looking at the best for ts3, or ts1im? with tt, or kbs maybe leaning towards 

nippon 950? So confused, hit the 125 great, hit the new best 100g 4 iron incredibly at c7.5, hope to get some closure!

[Thefonzzz]

9 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

Hey, at least you can probably stop a shot better with more compression!

Had a 150 shot into the wind on regular muni, hole normally plying long, can’t hit the 6 , 125gram, but 7 I hit great, SO! I have to flipping hit this one really good. Lag,shoulders, downnnnn….lower flight 5 yards right from the pin, just about plugged, third birdie! 

[iamlowsound]

9 minutes ago, TDHawk said:

I had the original hollow body PXG 0211 irons a few years back. Every once in a while I would get a shockingly long flyer. Not often. Not out of the rough. No obvious cause. I’m personally convinced that hollow body irons can be susceptible to the occasional flyer (one every couple of rounds). Since I don’t make my living playing golf, it is not a deal breaker.

Hitting higher on the face will take spin off no matter how the club is built. Many players distance (typically hollow) and GI clubs are designed to spin less. When you hit high on the face and spin goes down on a low spinning iron it will have a big effect as the spin window is smaller. That's not a hollow club problem, that's a low spin iron problem. Loosing 1,000rpm off of 4,000rpm on a seven iron is a much bigger deal than loosing 1,000rpm on 6,500rpm. 

[iamlowsound]

14 minutes ago, Thefonzzz said:

On a roll, just have to mention, only started plying 5 years ago at 50, shooting around +9, 4 birdies Friday , 2 double B’s, 1 triple, still broke 80, right now playing PTM’s 125 fst, g-7 (hit them great, controlling flight more for the first time) 6 and 5 is terrible with the 125’s, going to be at the Golfworks in two weeks for my first fitting? Don’t have a clue on what shave I am going to end up with but hitting a scratchy for $500, I am looking at the best for ts3, or ts1im? with tt, or kbs maybe leaning towards 

nippon 950? So confused, hit the 125 great, hit the new best 100g 4 iron incredibly at c7.5, hope to get some closure!

Don't over think it if you are going for a fitting! Trust the fitter, have a good dialogue about what you want your stock shot to do, don't worry about bad swings, give feedback on how your swing and the club feels, etc. If you like lighter shafts in longer clubs the AMT shafts might be the right fit for you so make sure that you ask about those while you are at your fitting. 

[iamlowsound]

10 minutes ago, Thefonzzz said:

Had a 150 shot into the wind on regular muni, hole normally plying long, can’t hit the 6 , 125gram, but 7 I hit great, SO! I have to flipping hit this one really good. Lag,shoulders, downnnnn….lower flight 5 yards right from the pin, just about plugged, third birdie! 

It's simple, just do that everytime!

[Spinozist]

After throwing the IMs and TS4s in play earlier this year, I continue to be happy with both. I have the TS4s in PW and GW, and can hit full shots but also use them for chipping and pitching, and around the green. I often play a high floater out of the rough, and the thin top section of the TS4s help this shot. They do feel a touch more solid/firm than the IMs, but for the PW and GW this is something I prefer. The IMs feel amazing to me, and I might test out the six iron. Just for fun, at some point I might build some single clubs with the TS3s, KE Maxes, and dbms.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Spinozist
fix 2

[Double4me]

8 minutes ago, Spinozist said:

After throwing the IMs and TS4s in play earlier this year, I continue to be happy with both. I have the TS4s in PW and GW, and can hit full shots but also use them for chipping and pitching, and around the green. I often play a high floater out of the rough, and the thin top section of the TS4s help this shot. They do feel a touch more solid than the IMs, but for the PW and GW this is something I prefer. The IMs feel amazing to me, and I might test out the five iron. Just for fun, at some point I might build some single clubs with the TS3s, KE Maxes, and dbms.

I think a few of us would be interested in the comparisons. Especially the TS3 and MAX compared to the IM. 

[bgfgolf]

I just wanted to chime in that I have recently bought my first few Maltby clubs. The STh2 hybrid paks in 21 and 24 degrees and just got my TSW DRM 56 degree wedge with DG S300 shaft, bent to 63 degree lie.

 

First of all, the build quality of all three clubs has been excellent. this wedge looks sharp as hell in person. im coming from mizuno T series 56.12, and the TSW is bang on. apart from the black and red paint fill id say its perfect. what a beautiful club. today was my first round with this wedge, and it did everything i needed it to do from tight fairway lies, rough, and bunkers. 

 

the hybrids have a much easier task. all they have to do is go the right distance (they do) and be easier to hit than my 4 and 5 iron (they are). beyond that though, i was pleasantly surprised by the look and sound, mostly the sound. they make a solid and muted 'thud' as opposed to my callaway hybrids they replaced that make loud metallic 'ting.' i didn't think id like the 'speed fin' design much, and honestly i could still do without it, but the black matte finish pretty much hides them. most importantly, they aren't distracting at address.

 

im getting the KE4 Tour 3w on Monday, and I'll probably order a 52 degree TSW DRM to match shortly.

 

very pleased, and for these prices, its ridiculous.

 

i finally feel like my bag is about where it needs to be. hybrid 19, 21, 24. mizuno jpx 921 forged 6,7, 8 iron. mizuno mp60 8, 9, PW. and 52,56 wedges.

[dmeeksDC]

3 hours ago, Spinozist said:

After throwing the IMs and TS4s in play earlier this year, I continue to be happy with both. I have the TS4s in PW and GW, and can hit full shots but also use them for chipping and pitching, and around the green. I often play a high floater out of the rough, and the thin top section of the TS4s help this shot. They do feel a touch more solid/firm than the IMs, but for the PW and GW this is something I prefer. The IMs feel amazing to me, and I might test out the six iron. Just for fun, at some point I might build some single clubs with the TS3s, KE Maxes, and dbms.

I’ve got the IM 5-7 and the TS4 8-P. I want to try the TS3 mainly because the IM and TS4 are so good! Very comfortable irons to play. The IM’s feel is the best I’ve encountered for a filled iron. Whatever they did, they did a great job and TaylorMade should take notes. The TS4 short irons are easy to hit dart throwers. Both are forgiving irons with low CG but without huge soles, and that’s an appealing iron for me. 

 

I really feel these irons can be combined a variety of ways by a wide range of players and they’d work great. I noticed over the weekend I don’t have a single club with a Project X Rifle 5.5 in it, and that’s usually my ‘control’ shaft. Thinking of putting the 5.5 in a couple of TS3 heads, maybe a gap wedge and a 4 iron. I like the relieved leading edge for a gap wedge. 

[JimmyC59]

5 hours ago, Thefonzzz said:

On a roll, just have to mention, only started plying 5 years ago at 50, shooting around +9, 4 birdies Friday , 2 double B’s, 1 triple, still broke 80, right now playing PTM’s 125 fst, g-7 (hit them great, controlling flight more for the first time) 6 and 5 is terrible with the 125’s, going to be at the Golfworks in two weeks for my first fitting? Don’t have a clue on what shave I am going to end up with but hitting a scratchy for $500, I am looking at the best for ts3, or ts1im? with tt, or kbs maybe leaning towards 

nippon 950? So confused, hit the 125 great, hit the new best 100g 4 iron incredibly at c7.5, hope to get some closure!

"Hitting a scratchy?"

What in the hell are you talking about???

[JimmyC59]

Just now, JimmyC59 said:

"Hitting a scratchy?"

What in the hell are you talking about???

Nevermind, you won $500 on a scratch off lottery ticket.

Carry on.

[DFinch]

A way to do blind comparisons that has produced great results for me (golf tech nerd):

Make a list and rank every iron you've ever owned from favorite to duds. It's best if this is as honest and non-nostalgic as possible and based on flight/performance (and to some degree feel), not on looks or personal hype. If you've made major angle of attack/swing changes, determine that cutoff point and give less weight to the clubs you owned before that change. Give extra weight to your favorite set. Look up the CDim and Actual VCog of each of those iron sets and add them to your list. It's been my personal experience that MOI means very little as long as it's over around 11.5, which is pretty much every iron ever made, but MOI can be a tie breaker if you feel you get some benefit from it. I just don't notice any help from MOI and some of my worst iron sets have been 14+ MOI (with terrible AVCog or CDim values for me).

 

You should see a pattern.

 

Looking back at my early days of chasing scratch my numbers were clearly 1.25 CDim and .720 Actual VCog. Now, after decades of swing evolution, it's pretty clear that for at least the last 10 years the irons I've loved have been as close as possible to 1.45 CDim and .790 Actual VCog. The closer to that number, the more I will love them. The farther away, the more I will  hate them.

 

After that it's just looks, sole width/shape, and offset. While there are some design elements that affect feel, nothing affects it more than hitting it on the sweet spot. Where that sweet spot is and having irons that match that more frequently with your delivery is going to feel better than a "butter" set that has a sweet spot you don't find often enough.

 

For the current Maltby offerings:

KE4MAX (1.659/.758): Low-ish AVCog similar to the TS1 and PTM. Toe forgiveness thanks to the high CDim.
TS3 (1.463/.691): Very low AVCog. If you need low AVCog, this is The One.
TS4 (1.463/.761): Next step up in AVCog (pretty big jump, actually).
TS1 IM (1.462/.788): Next step up in AVCog (subtle).

The above TS models all have basically the same CDim and the same MOI. You're not getting more MOI "forgiveness" from the TS3's cavity back design, you're getting a really low AVCog. With the TS4 you're getting a slightly smaller profile and a "medium/low" AVCog. The TS1 IM is for those of us who know we want it a touch higher and is basically a way better looking TS2 with a much much much thinner topline. The KE4 is a TS4 in a "friendlier looking" package with extra toe forgiveness.