Is Too Much Attention Spent On Swing Mechanics (at the amateur level)

[Ghost of Snead]

 

“And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics.”

 

‘Fixing swing mechanics’ isn’t best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

[iteachgolf]

Swing your own swing is probably a good mantra for sub 10 handicappers who want to enjoy themselves every weekend.

 

The majority of amateur golfers own swings are so bad that they still struggle to play bogey golf with a great short game. You gotta remember that anyone shooting mid 80's is a great amateur golfer statistically speaking, and by far don't represent the whole.

 

YMMV.

 

True but those who shoot mid 80's are usually not happy with their game. This is the group I'm talking about. Shooting mid 80's probably means your swing is good enough, so it's time to start searching elsewhere.

 

Good enough for what ? To play the best golf you are capable of ?

 

Good enough to stop working on mechanics and start working on placing your focus somewhere else. Like maybe a trigger to start the swing, but after that the mind is focused on something consistent every time and it's got nothing to do with mechanics.

Infact any focus on mechanics would result in a unsequenced non athletic poorly timed swing, robbing speed, distance and accuracy.

If you are somehow good enough to play golf while juggling mechanical thoughts and regularly shoot mid 80's, I believe you could be one of the best golfers in your area and flirt with shooting even par once you understand how to place your mind.

 

Flirting with shooting par wouldn’t make anyone one of the best golfers in there area unless we are talking about really small towns. And the skill level difference between a scratch golfer and someone who shoots in the mid 80s is absolutely massive.

 

I can show you a ton of swings where thinking about and improving mechanics have improved speed, sequencing, dispersion, and score. The bolder statement is completely false

[jekato]

Too much time spent on mechanics and not enough emphasis on gestalt.

[BottleCap]

I’ve stated that also. Some look different than others because of other variables throughout the swing. But none of them come into contact with the ball steep. Great players struggle with getting stuck because they shallow the club too much.

 

I depends on the golfer and their whole swing, guys like Mickelson, Bubba, Day are a lot more upright and steeper than guys like Jordan, Dustin and Rory

[FatReed]

 

“And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics.”

 

‘Fixing swing mechanics’ isn’t best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.”

 

Ghost, my game is just fine - thank you - and there is nothing but enjoyment on the golfing road ahead of me. Take some deep breaths and gain some perspective.

 

99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and swing motion. . . and the overwhelming majority of golfers are insufficient and perpetually frustrated.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that most golfers are inept in their approach to learning. . . the human capacity and willingness to learn is pretty well documented.

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".”

 

You already asked this, and I provided ample response in previous threads. . I DID give chase down the rabbit hole. It was a long road back, but proper focus was the path back to proficiency.

 

Get off the Kool Aid Ghost. It’s depriving you of any independent thought and perspective.

 

FR

 

 

[iteachgolf]

 

“And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics.”

 

‘Fixing swing mechanics’ isn’t best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.”

 

Ghost, my game is just fine - thank you - and there is nothing but enjoyment on the golfing road ahead of me. Take some deep breaths and gain some perspective.

 

99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and swing motion. . . and the overwhelming majority of golfers are insufficient and perpetually frustrated.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that most golfers are inept in their approach to learning. . . the human capacity and willingness to learn is pretty well documented.

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".”

 

You already asked this, and I provided ample response in previous threads. . I DID give chase down the rabbit hole. It was a long road back, but proper focus was the path back to proficiency.

 

Get off the Kool Aid Ghost. It’s depriving you of any independent thought and perspective.

 

FR

 

Only 5-10% of golfers actually take lessons, and the ones who do have lower handicaps. The majority of golfers aren’t good because they are trying every tip they see on tv or YouTube and trying to teach themselves

[BottleCap]

 

"And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics."

 

'Fixing swing mechanics' isn't best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

 

Ghost wrote:

 

"Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you."

 

Ghost, my game is just fine - thank you - and there is nothing but enjoyment on the golfing road ahead of me. Take some deep breaths and gain some perspective.

 

99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and swing motion. . . and the overwhelming majority of golfers are insufficient and perpetually frustrated.

 

And please don't tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

And please don't tell us AGAIN that most golfers are inept in their approach to learning. . . the human capacity and willingness to learn is pretty well documented.

 

Ghost wrote:

 

"And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia"."

 

You already asked this, and I provided ample response in previous threads. . I DID give chase down the rabbit hole. It was a long road back, but proper focus was the path back to proficiency.

 

Get off the Kool Aid Ghost. It's depriving you of any independent thought and perspective.

 

FR

 

Only 5-10% of golfers actually take lessons, and the ones who do have lower handicaps. The majority of golfers aren't good because they are trying every tip they see on tv or YouTube and trying to teach themselves

 

This is true for me, my instructor has me hitting great, and it only breaks down when i try something I see on Youtube and try to optimize my swing on my own. Golf tip videos are a waste of precious time.

[Ghost of Snead]

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

 

Once again, your use of the term "modern golf instruction" means nothing if you won't define it. And after you define it, give us some contemporary examples of golf instructors that fit into the category.

[getitdaily]

 

“And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics.”

 

‘Fixing swing mechanics’ isn’t best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.”

 

Ghost, my game is just fine - thank you - and there is nothing but enjoyment on the golfing road ahead of me. Take some deep breaths and gain some perspective.

 

99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and swing motion. . . and the overwhelming majority of golfers are insufficient and perpetually frustrated.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that most golfers are inept in their approach to learning. . . the human capacity and willingness to learn is pretty well documented.

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".”

 

You already asked this, and I provided ample response in previous threads. . I DID give chase down the rabbit hole. It was a long road back, but proper focus was the path back to proficiency.

 

Get off the Kool Aid Ghost. It’s depriving you of any independent thought and perspective.

 

FR

 

Only 5-10% of golfers actually take lessons, and the ones who do have lower handicaps. The majority of golfers aren’t good because they are trying every tip they see on tv or YouTube and trying to teach themselves

 

Not that you need the affirmation, but this is 100% true. I was an upper 70s player in the early 2000s by playing and learning on my own. I decided to take lessons and got lucky to happen upon a great instructor. For the next 6 months I worked my butt off and cleaned up my swing...and started to break par.

 

To give him waldron some cred here too, about 18 months later is was breaking g par a lot. But always 70 or 71 and a few 69s. But nothing low. In an attempt to get some instruction on course mgmt i changed instructors. New guy didn't really change any mechanics, just a couple cleanup tweaks. However, he saw hesitation in my swing. One lesson he said something that was profound "when it's time to pull the trigger you can't be afraid of where it's going, let go"

 

From that moment on I started to break 70 regularly and about 6 weeks later I shot 66 in a tournament round.

 

Mechanics, mental game, tempo, course management...all combine to make really good golfers.

[FatReed]

 

“And in 99% of cases, that means fixing mechanics.”

 

‘Fixing swing mechanics’ isn’t best approached through focusing on the golf swing (motion). Wrong focus.

 

FR

 

 

Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.

 

And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“Fat ... you can continue to ramble on about the wrong focus but since 99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and the swing motion, you have a long road ahead of you.”

 

Ghost, my game is just fine - thank you - and there is nothing but enjoyment on the golfing road ahead of me. Take some deep breaths and gain some perspective.

 

99% of golf instructors focus on mechanics and swing motion. . . and the overwhelming majority of golfers are insufficient and perpetually frustrated.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that is because most golf instructors suck. That alone serves as an indictment regarding the state of modern golf instruction.

 

And please don’t tell us AGAIN that most golfers are inept in their approach to learning. . . the human capacity and willingness to learn is pretty well documented.

 

Ghost wrote:

 

“And do tell us when this focus change came to you since your posting history indicates a lot of involvement in "swing minutia".”

 

You already asked this, and I provided ample response in previous threads. . I DID give chase down the rabbit hole. It was a long road back, but proper focus was the path back to proficiency.

 

Get off the Kool Aid Ghost. It’s depriving you of any independent thought and perspective.

 

FR

 

Only 5-10% of golfers actually take lessons, and the ones who do have lower handicaps. The majority of golfers aren’t good because they are trying every tip they see on tv or YouTube and trying to teach themselves

 

Nicely stated. . . and I’m sure particularly true of your students.

 

Nowhere have I ever said there is no role in golf for golf instruction. Nonetheless, I think modern golf instruction can do BETTER. . . actually, a lot better.

 

No secret that I believe de-emphasizing trying to teach the golf swing (motion) is the path to improved instruction and increased success in producing proficient golfers. More emphasis on GOLF instruction; less golf SWING instruction.

 

FR

 

Edit: grammar

[jbw749]

It's "too much attention"

 

There, I've said it, been bothering me all morning.

Oh crap oops

[jbw749]

Swing your own swing is probably a good mantra for sub 10 handicappers who want to enjoy themselves every weekend.

 

The majority of amateur golfers own swings are so bad that they still struggle to play bogey golf with a great short game. You gotta remember that anyone shooting mid 80's is a great amateur golfer statistically speaking, and by far don't represent the whole.

 

YMMV.

 

True but those who shoot mid 80's are usually not happy with their game. This is the group I'm talking about. Shooting mid 80's probably means your swing is good enough, so it's time to start searching elsewhere.

 

Good enough for what ? To play the best golf you are capable of ?

 

Good enough to stop working on mechanics and start working on placing your focus somewhere else. Like maybe a trigger to start the swing, but after that the mind is focused on something consistent every time and it's got nothing to do with mechanics.

Infact any focus on mechanics would result in a unsequenced non athletic poorly timed swing, robbing speed, distance and accuracy.

If you are somehow good enough to play golf while juggling mechanical thoughts and regularly shoot mid 80's, I believe you could be one of the best golfers in your area and flirt with shooting even par once you understand how to place your mind.

 

Flirting with shooting par wouldn’t make anyone one of the best golfers in there area unless we are talking about really small towns. And the skill level difference between a scratch golfer and someone who shoots in the mid 80s is absolutely massive.

 

I can show you a ton of swings where thinking about and improving mechanics have improved speed, sequencing, dispersion, and score. The bolder statement is completely false

 

Ok I'll change it to: Any conscious effort to fire an individual body part while hitting a ball and expecting a good result. That's what I meant, mechanics sounds to general.

[Hstead]

I have played many rounds using mechanics and swing thoughts. I have now played three bogey free rounds since Dan gave me a lesson two weeks ago and I am using the mechanics and feels from that lesson along with others.

 

Evidenly you guys don't know what to work on, or most likely don't put in the time and effort to make a real change and what you think you are doing is actually nothing compared to what you are trying to change? Just a guess. I know I am glad I have had good instruction over the years and my scores have benefited.

[Ghost of Snead]

 

No secret that I believe de-emphasizing trying to teach the golf swing (motion) is the path to improved instruction and increased success in producing proficient golfers. More emphasis on GOLF instruction; less golf SWING instruction.

 

 

What does this even mean ? Most good instructors offer on-course instruction in strategy, club selection, alignment and in addition to the full swing, offer instruction in the short game and putting.

[thug the bunny]

Face, path, tempo. Stop.

[FatReed]

 

No secret that I believe de-emphasizing trying to teach the golf swing (motion) is the path to improved instruction and increased success in producing proficient golfers. More emphasis on GOLF instruction; less golf SWING instruction.

 

 

What does this even mean ? Most good instructors offer on-course instruction in strategy, club selection, alignment and in addition to the full swing, offer instruction in the short game and putting.

 

Ghost

 

The problem is not that you don’t understand, rather, that you are intoxicated on the KoolAid you’ve been served, and refuse to consider the world isn’t flat. I guess some are just born followers.

 

Not sure why, but I’m going to say it for the 10th time. . . I’m not here to spoon feed you. Get the modern golf instructor of your choice to do that for you.

 

The eyes cannot see what the mind doesn’t know . . . put that in your sippy cup tonight, and try not to let your head explode in the process of contemplating.

 

FR

 

 

[FullOfBrushMan]

I'm thinking swing your own swing and don't give a dang what it looks like is a better formula to reach your scoring goals.

Everyone knows the swing I'm talking about right? You know the one you know works for you but hate the way it looks? My argument is to take that swing and tweak some setup adjustments, fine tune it and TRUST it. The piece of mind of doing something you know works for you will result in lower scores.

You ask if there is too much and then in your post state an argument to "tweak" and "fine tune it". There is a lot of time spent on mechanics in there lol.

 

Most people take a lesson, expect an immediate cure, put next to no effort into it, and give up or find the next snake oil salesman because their old swing feels better. I would argue most people don't put the correct time/attention into it.

[ThinkingPlus]

As one of the resident anomalies I thought I would add two cents. I have 1 - 2 swing thoughts (mechanical usually) on the backswing and usually one swing thought on the forward swing. If I am focusing well on these thoughts during the swing then I will generally strike the ball pretty well. When I lose focus and neglect concentrating on these swing thoughts I start mis-hitting shots. I can't imagine trying to play any other way. Just a different perspective for folks to chew on.

[Ghost of Snead]

No secret that I believe de-emphasizing trying to teach the golf swing (motion) is the path to improved instruction and increased success in producing proficient golfers. More emphasis on GOLF instruction; less golf SWING instruction.

 

 

What does this even mean ? Most good instructors offer on-course instruction in strategy, club selection, alignment and in addition to the full swing, offer instruction in the short game and putting.

 

Ghost

 

The problem is not that you don't understand, rather, that you are intoxicated on the KoolAid you've been served, and refuse to consider the world isn't flat. I guess some are just born followers.

 

Not sure why, but I'm going to say it for the 10th time. . . I'm not here to spoon feed you. Get the modern golf instructor of your choice to do that for you.

 

The eyes cannot see what the mind doesn't know . . . put that in your sippy cup tonight, and try not to let your head explode in the process of contemplating.

 

FR

 

Whatever you're serving, I'm not eating. You've been asked to define "modern golf instruction" and we get crickets. Asked for examples of GOLF instruction, we get crickets. Fortunately, I don't need a lot of my help with my game but if I did, would head straight for someone who knows the golf swing.

[Jasonic]

 

No secret that I believe de-emphasizing trying to teach the golf swing (motion) is the path to improved instruction and increased success in producing proficient golfers. More emphasis on GOLF instruction; less golf SWING instruction.

 

 

What does this even mean ? Most good instructors offer on-course instruction in strategy, club selection, alignment and in addition to the full swing, offer instruction in the short game and putting.

 

Ghost

 

The problem is not that you don’t understand, rather, that you are intoxicated on the KoolAid you’ve been served, and refuse to consider the world isn’t flat. I guess some are just born followers.

 

Not sure why, but I’m going to say it for the 10th time. . . I’m not here to spoon feed you. Get the modern golf instructor of your choice to do that for you.

 

The eyes cannot see what the mind doesn’t know . . . put that in your sippy cup tonight, and try not to let your head explode in the process of contemplating.

 

FR

 

What is it about this site that makes people think they know someone from a couple posts to attack them personally especially from a soapbox high above? Especially when they’re not even a modern golf instructor lol.

[BrandonG31]

There is only so much an instructor can do for you. I’ve gotten better because I’ve taken what he’s taught me and practiced it until I’m blue in the face. And it’s not an oxymoron to not have the same swing thoughts on the course as you do on the range. That’s just asinine.

[BrandonG31]

Really good players at my club will have alignment sticks out among other gadgets going over their mechanical swing on the range. On the course of you ask them what they’re thinking over a shot, it’s, this is the number, this is my target. They think only about scoring.

[jekato]

Thoroughly defining "modern instruction" today may parallel the dilemma facing Justice Potter Stewart in 1964. I don't want someone who "knows" the golf swing- plenty of know-it-all instructors already- I want someone who understands the golf swing and therefore understands the prime charge is to teach someone how to teach themselves, then they own it.

[Ghost of Snead]

Thoroughly defining "modern instruction" today may parallel the dilemma facing Justice Potter Stewart in 1964. I don't want someone who "knows" the golf swing- plenty of know-it-all instructors already- I want someone who understands the golf swing and therefore understands the prime charge is to teach someone how to teach themselves, then they own it.

 

One should note that the ones coining the phrase "modern golf instruction" are the ones disparaging the industry. And most likely the reason for the dislike is a lack of improvement of their own golf games utilizing traditional swing instruction for whatever reason.

[FatReed]

Brandon wrote:

 

“And it’s not an oxymoron to not have the same swing thoughts on the course as you do on the range. That’s just asinine.”

 

*****

 

Do you even hear yourself when you are typing?

 

If you are on the practice range, and you are not practicing golf in a manner that you play golf, then you are not practicing.

 

Why in the world would you practice on the range with one focus, whatever it is, then change the focus when out on course?

 

FR

[BrandonG31]

Seriously? Why don’t PGA Tour players just have their instructor caddie for them during tournaments? When you’re on the range, you work on your swing, along with getting your yardages down. When you play, the only thing that matters is what you shoot, end of story. Having too many swing thoughts during a round of golf is universally looked at as a bad thing, you act as if I’m making this up.

[jut111]

Brandon wrote:

 

“And it’s not an oxymoron to not have the same swing thoughts on the course as you do on the range. That’s just asinine.”

 

*****

 

Do you even hear yourself when you are typing?

 

If you are on the practice range, and you are not practicing golf in a manner that you play golf, then you are not practicing.

 

Why in the world would you practice on the range with one focus, whatever it is, then change the focus when out on course?

 

FR

 

You practice on the range with the goal of making it easy to repeat on the course without having to think about it.

[BrandonG31]

Bingo!

[RichieHunt]

What I see and have been guilty of myself is the lack of understanding mechanics and aesthetics.

 

I think 95% of having a 'pretty swing' is tempo and the finish. But that doesn't mean I want to have that pretty swing when an unusual swing like Bubba Watson's is far superior mechanically.

 

So often times the pretty swing is not mechanically as good as the ugly swing. Many golfers don't understand that because they are uneducated to how the body and swing works.

 

The other issue is that when golfers get on a good track for what to work on mechanically, they are thinking about the mechanics and hope that a swing thought/visual will allow them to repeat those mechanics. The practice methods used to actually ingrain quality mechanics are so poor that they blame the mechanics and the scientific method towards analyzing the golf swing instead of understanding that their practice methods are the exact opposite of what needs to be done to incorporate those mechanics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

Good point Richie. The swing that produces good tempo and a balanced finish is very likely not the one that has perfect looking mechanics (although from p6 through impact it usually does). The swing that produces good tempo and balance is the swing you should golf with and is the swing you'll score better with. The good tempo/balance swing will have the least thoughts.

 

I disagree.

 

Again...just because a swing looks pretty doesn't mean it's more effective.

 

I would rather have Webb Simpson's odd looking swing than Raphael Jacquelin's 'pretty swing.'

 

I would rather have JB Holmes' thrashing, cut off swing than Stuart Appleby's 'pretty swing.'

 

And I would rather have DJ's swing with the super strong grip and big time left wrist flexion into the top of the swing than Trevor Immelman's pretty swing.

 

Mechanics are important. The issue is that many people associate their predetermined opinion on what a 'pretty swing' looks like with 'proper mechanics.' And often times that couldn't be further from the truth. And even those that understand mechanics usually don't know how to efficiently ingrain them into their swing.

 

In essence, the mechanics are not the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[FatReed]

Brandon wrote:

 

“And it’s not an oxymoron to not have the same swing thoughts on the course as you do on the range. That’s just asinine.”

 

*****

 

Do you even hear yourself when you are typing?

 

If you are on the practice range, and you are not practicing golf in a manner that you play golf, then you are not practicing.

 

Why in the world would you practice on the range with one focus, whatever it is, then change the focus when out on course?

 

FR

 

You practice on the range with the goal of making it easy to repeat on the course without having to think about it.

 

Make WHAT easy to repeat?

 

Think about WHAT?

 

The best way to get better at golf is to play golf. If you are going to practice golf, practice playing golf . . . with the proper and SAME focus. If you cannot focus properly on the range, then best to stay off it.