NFL 2018-19 season discussion...

[One_Putt_Blunder]

As a life long 49ers fan and long time Montana=Goat I think I am now on the side of Brady=Goat

Sure Montana's SB numbers were ridiculous 0 interceptions in 122 attempts and 11 TD in 4 games in a different and much tougher era defensively. I mean 9% of his passes in the SB were TD's.

Brady's best 4 games yardage wise he has 1 more TD than Joe in almost 100 more attempts and +4 int

 

I can see an argument either way but making it to 9 SB and winning 6 in the salary cap era is damn impressive. Don't buy the system QB/game manager either, hell by that definition Montana with Walsh was a system qb too.

[jerebear21]

Different era of offense. And the late 90s/early 2000s defense was just as vicious as the 80s. Ask Steve young if the warren sapp lead Bucs was a cake walk.

 

9 super bowl appearance in a salary cap era is unheard of. 6-3 is pretty good.

 

Better than the other wannabe goat that is 3-6 in the finals.

[highergr0und]

I believe there are plenty of QBs who are/were better than Brady but the outcomes make him the GOAT. He's won 3 MVPs and 4 SB MVPs and 6 SBs out of 9 trips. He plays at a high level every year with a highly revolving cast surrounding him. Im not even a fan.

 

I do believe Belichek has absolutely figured out how to win in the Salary cap system by using lots of young guys and castaways but Brady has still needed to perform. He's basically the Warren Buffet of the NFL where he's just got a system that could be copied but others don't because they can't tolerate the discipline needed and short term needs dominate long term returns

[adam667220]

Brady is the GOAT but is not the most talented QB of all time. There can be a difference. Like Rice would be the GOAT but Moss may have been the most talented WR.

[highergr0und]

Brady is the GOAT but is not the most talented QB of all time. There can be a difference. Like Rice would be the GOAT but Moss may have been the most talented WR.

 

Exactly. I think there are plenty of guys more talented over the years but it boils down to the resume and wins.

[jerebear21]

why when you guys talk about talent it's about the over whelming physical trait? Tom brady has great technique as a passer, vision and anticipation and have lasted much longer than any QB before him; why is that not included in talent evaluation? Not to mention mental fortitude, another check mark to make him the GOAT.

 

If physical talent alone is all that matters then Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell gets the award for most talented arm of all time. We saw how that ended.

[cdnglf]

why when you guys talk about talent it's about the over whelming physical trait? Tom brady has great technique as a passer, vision and anticipation and have lasted much longer than any QB before him; why is that not included in talent evaluation? Not to mention mental fortitude, another check mark to make him the GOAT.

 

If physical talent alone is all that matters then Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell gets the award for most talented arm of all time. We saw how that ended.

 

They’re probably referring to guys who didn’t cheat.

[jerebear21]

why when you guys talk about talent it's about the over whelming physical trait? Tom brady has great technique as a passer, vision and anticipation and have lasted much longer than any QB before him; why is that not included in talent evaluation? Not to mention mental fortitude, another check mark to make him the GOAT.

 

If physical talent alone is all that matters then Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell gets the award for most talented arm of all time. We saw how that ended.

 

They’re probably referring to guys who didn’t cheat.

 

ahhh. you're one of those. got it.

[cdnglf]

why when you guys talk about talent it's about the over whelming physical trait? Tom brady has great technique as a passer, vision and anticipation and have lasted much longer than any QB before him; why is that not included in talent evaluation? Not to mention mental fortitude, another check mark to make him the GOAT.

 

If physical talent alone is all that matters then Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell gets the award for most talented arm of all time. We saw how that ended.

 

They’re probably referring to guys who didn’t cheat.

 

ahhh. you're one of those. got it.

 

Brady is a systems guy. Give Manning or Brees the same cheating, Belichick, defense, Gronk, Vinatieri, and laughable AFC East “competition” and they’d have 8+ SBs, easy.

[jerebear21]

Yeah. Any qb can win with that Denver defense Peyton had in his last year.

 

Got it.

 

The delusion is so real with some of these non football folks.

[jerebear21]

The AFC south wasn’t exactly lighting it up. The nfc south was garbage for years. I know this. Been a Bucs fan since forever.

[jerebear21]

Peyton had edgerrin James. Marvin Harrison. Reggie Wayne.

 

All hall of fame players. Give Brady those same players his entire career and you will get more than one 16-0 season.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Lol if QB talent was all it took to win a sb then Aaron Rodgers would have 6 not 1.

 

Manning had Harrison Wayne and Clark.

 

Not buying it

 

The system qb is a weak argument same could be said about any long time qb/coach pairing Montana/Young and Walsh, Manning and Dungy etc etc etc.

[cdnglf]

Peyton had edgerrin James. Marvin Harrison. Reggie Wayne.

 

All hall of fame players. Give Brady those same players his entire career and you will get more than one 16-0 season.

 

Manning made those guys. Same way Gronk and Vinatieri made Brady.

[cdnglf]

Lol if QB talent was all it took to win a sb then Aaron Rodgers would have 6 not 1.

 

Manning had Harrison Wayne and Clark.

 

Not buying it

 

The system qb is a weak argument same could be said about any long time qb/coach pairing Montana/Young and Walsh, Manning and Dungy etc etc etc.

 

Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different coaches, so no.

[jerebear21]

And belichick couldn’t win a super bowl as a head coach without Brady. This can go on and on.

 

Brady has gone to 13 conference championship. Think about that for a second.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Peyton? Peyton last super bowl was a gift from Denver defense. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

[cdnglf]

And belichick couldn’t win a super bowl as a head coach without Brady. This can go on and on.

 

Brady has gone to 13 conference championship. Think about that for a second.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Peyton? Peyton last super bowl was a gift from Denver defense. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Brady? Brady last super bowl was a gift from the Patriots defense.

[raynorfan1]

Lol if QB talent was all it took to win a sb then Aaron Rodgers would have 6 not 1.

 

Manning had Harrison Wayne and Clark.

 

Not buying it

 

The system qb is a weak argument same could be said about any long time qb/coach pairing Montana/Young and Walsh, Manning and Dungy etc etc etc.

 

Manning went to 4 Super Bowls with 4 different coaches, so no.

 

Pretty sure Vinatieri played as many seasons with Manning as he did with Brady.

 

The thing with the "system" argument is that the "system" has changed a lot over the 17 years of Brady. How is it that the same guy thrives in a wide variety of "systems"? Brady has won a super bowl with 63 passing attempts (LI) and another with 35 (LIII) and fewer than half the completions. Unless the "system" is "read the defense and don't turn the ball over"...there's not been much consistency over the years.

[raynorfan1]

And belichick couldn't win a super bowl as a head coach without Brady. This can go on and on.

 

Brady has gone to 13 conference championship. Think about that for a second.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Peyton? Peyton last super bowl was a gift from Denver defense. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Brady? Brady last super bowl was a gift from the Patriots defense.

 

I get the sentiment, but the stats aren't that close. Brady had a slow game with 23 completions for 253 yards...Manning in Super Bowl L? 13 completions for 104 yards. That's a pretty bad day at the office

[jerebear21]

And belichick couldn’t win a super bowl as a head coach without Brady. This can go on and on.

 

Brady has gone to 13 conference championship. Think about that for a second.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Peyton? Peyton last super bowl was a gift from Denver defense. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Brady? Brady last super bowl was a gift from the Patriots defense.

 

Lmao. Did you even watch the playoff run ? Brady was money against chargers and Kansas City.

 

From my memory Peyton was benched his final season in Denver. For who? Big game Brock. That Denver defense carried Peyton and his home field advantage to the super bowl. Vonn Miller must have had 20 sacks that playoffs alone.

[jerebear21]

Mark rypien came to mind when I think of super bowl winning qb who was a system qb.

 

Peyton final year was game manager. Trent dilfer super bowl year was a game manager.

 

So we have seen what a game manager qb look like. Brady being called a game manager and system qb? Maybe if he had retired after year 3.

[cdnglf]

And belichick couldn't win a super bowl as a head coach without Brady. This can go on and on.

 

Brady has gone to 13 conference championship. Think about that for a second.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Peyton? Peyton last super bowl was a gift from Denver defense. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

We really giving that last super bowl to Brady? Brady last super bowl was a gift from the Patriots defense.

 

I get the sentiment, but the stats aren't that close. Brady had a slow game with 23 completions for 253 yards...Manning in Super Bowl L? 13 completions for 104 yards. That's a pretty bad day at the office

 

They scored 13 points. Kirk Cousins could have done that. Or Tyrod Taylor. Probably even me. Really, anybody except Joe Flacco.

[jerebear21]

You give yourself too much credit. I doubt you could toss 100 yards in the super bowl against a raging defense.

[cdnglf]

Mark rypien came to mind when I think of super bowl winning qb who was a system qb.

 

Peyton final year was game manager. Trent dilfer super bowl year was a game manager.

 

So we have seen what a game manager qb look like.

 

Sure, or watch Brady vs the Rams. Both times.

[jerebear21]

System or game manager ?

[Titleist 670]

Peyton had edgerrin James. Marvin Harrison. Reggie Wayne.

 

All hall of fame players. Give Brady those same players his entire career and you will get more than one 16-0 season.

 

Manning made those guys. Same way Gronk and Vinatieri made Brady.

 

Do you watch football? Brady won four Superbowls without Gronk. He threw for 466 against the Falcons without Gronk.

 

It's hilarious the arguments people make against Brady. If he throws for 500 yards and loses, he stinks. If Manning does that, he's the GOAT and it's not his fault because his defense stinks.

[jerebear21]

The guy doesn’t watch football. He thinks he as a quarterback can score 13 points in a super bowl facing Aaron Donald for 60 snaps. The delusion is unreal.

[cdnglf]

You give yourself too much credit. I doubt you could toss 100 yards in the super bowl against a raging defense.

 

I’m more of a running threat, but even I can toss it 5 yards to Gronk and watch him rumble down the field for another 20.

[jerebear21]

Doubt it. You would probably be knocked out after the first hit from Aaron Donald.

[Titleist 670]

The guy doesn't watch football. He thinks he as a quarterback can score 13 points in a super bowl facing Aaron Donald for 60 snaps. The delusion is unreal.

 

He's just trolling at this point. Oh well.

 

But it's funny to me that after the Pats won this last one, the argument had to be "Brady isn't Babe Ruth." I really don't get people's fascination with trying to prove Brady isn't great.

 

Nobody is sitting around saying Magic Johnson is terrible because he lost a bunch of finals, or that Tim Duncan wasn't in his prime during his last championship so he can't take credit for it. Eventually Brady is going to not be very good and retire (he's already clearly on the downside), but people have been saying this for literally about 6 years now. Eventually it will happen, so it's not even a great prediction.