Just back from 7 nights in St Andrews (8/4-11)

[dcmidnight]

Will do a full writeup eventually including a lot of pics but would also take any questions people have as I know we have a lot of people going over this year.

 

Also met a guy from Australia in line at the Old Course on Friday AM that was right behind me and my brother in line, I was 7 and he was 8. He said he hooked up with another WRXer and got a ballot time on Saturday. Wont throw his name out there but if hes here and recognizes this, would love to hear if you got out on Friday!

 

All I can say is, if you are on the fence about going on a trip like this - JUST GO.

[Hawkeye77]

Looking forward to writeup and any pics you want to share!

 

I'll be putting in for the lottery again this year, my wife said she is all in if I (we) want to go back. Whether the kids get to go if we go next year is up in the air, but if we go without them we are definitely going back with the whole gang within the next 3 years.

 

I can't describe how much I enjoyed Scotland, and all the threads and comments from you and others on here have had me studying it for years and made planning the trip so much easier.

[Cwing]

In the read reviews, see photos.

[dcmidnight]

Pre travel

 

Stayed - 7 nights in St Andrews at the Fairmont.

 

Played - Kittocks and Torrence at the Fairmont, Jubilee Course, Kingsbarns, New Course, Carnoustie, Old Course

 

I've mentioned luggage trackers in a couple other threads and this is the one I used this trip. Its $100 plus a small monthly fee but you can activate/cancel it without penalties whenever you go on trips. Its one of those things that you probably dont need at all - but I love having it. Its not going to prevent the airline from putting it on the wrong plane but at least if it does, I'd know exactly where the clubs were to at least help them narrow the focus.

 

https://smile.amazon...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Here are a couple shots from the app itself.

 

 

 

[dcmidnight]

So this will be a common theme in my posts. But St Andrews is an amazing place.

 

I do not understand the people who only spend one day or one night there. I talked to so many guys on the tail end of their trips who left St Andrews as their last stop and were simply exhausted from say playing 36, driving 5 hours, playing 18, driving 4 hours etc. I just dont get it, that sounds awful to me. I honestly think you could spend 10 days in St Andrews and not get "bored" at all. Save for the Torrence Course, I would re-play every course that we played and I think there were 5 or 6 other courses that we could have added in - just in Fife.

 

The town has so much going on between the food, great locals pubs, history stuff to do - everything. If you're constantly going in and out of towns just to hit a course here and there I feel like you are missing so much. To each his own and all that I guess.

[doglegs]

Any restaurant/pub recommendations? Will be there next week and have read past threads but always enjoy a fresh take.

[jwellefson1]

I went in April for a few nights, I concur it is amazing. As far as food, I went to this pizza place called mozza that was surprisingly awesome, and pizza is something I take very seriously lol. Of course go to the Dunvegan and the Jigger Inn and all those. The Road Hole Lounge in the Old Course Hotel is a great place to relax for a bit too. Just take it all in, it's incredible.

[dcmidnight]

Guess this is as good a place to start as any.

 

So food/bar wise we ended up hitting some really good spots - some more than once. Depends on what you like really. There are apparently a couple of nightclub/late night type places - cant comment on those good or bad. But it depends on whether you're looking for sort of more popular, crowded, touristy spots or more locals type places.

 

And if there's one thing a list like this shows its just how much you can miss if you blow through St Andrews in a day or two.

 

Dunvegan - went once because we felt like we had to. Made a reservation for dinner through the hotel but ended up sitting in the bar area anyway. Food was decent. I dont know, if we hadnt gone I wouldnt have felt like we missed anything. IMO its a bit overrated - at least compared to some other options. Our cab driver told us the Dunvegan nickname is the "American embassy". But so many people were saying "Oh you have to go to the Dunvegan, you have to". OK, I went. Yeah, there are a ton of pictures hung up on the wall. And oh how quaint, a trough in the mens room instead of urinals. On any return trips though, it wont be on the list.

 

If you are only there for one night, I wouldn't go.

 

Jigger - worth going if you can sit outside and watch people play up 17. Absolutely beautiful spot in the late afternoon/early evening with the view of the city. BTW "early evening" at this time of year is around 9pm LOL. If we had been just sitting inside, I'm not sure I would have gone. Another place people say you have to go to, so we went. Would go back if we could sit outside.

 

The Keys - Probably my favorite place of the whole trip. Small place, very much a locals and caddie hangout. Primarily a whisky spot but a good amount of beer too. Never ate here, honestly not sure I saw anyone eating there. But we watched the first half of the Man U game there on Friday night and it was so much fun. Just a great crowd. Again its small, couldn't go there with a big group and expect to get in let alone get seats. Went three different nights.

 

Whey Pat - Another local place although a little bigger. Couple of blocks off the main drag/s but certainly not far enough away that you would need a cab. Quiet spot, great service. Probably an easier place to go with a group because there is a lot more room to spread out.

 

Criterion - Were told it was a sports bar but when we went the tvs were all off and they werent showing any games at all. Nonetheless really good bartenders and the locals that were there said the food was good.

 

Foodwise we really liked Forgans and Tailend. Tailend is a chip shop up front - or some type of to-go operation - and then a restaurant in the back. A+ food, great service. Same with Forgans. Cool interior space with the entrance down an alley, excellent drink menu, really good bartender.

 

We ate in the Fairmont clubhouse one day for lunch. Beautiful spot, hard to beat the views. Ate a couple meals in the Links Clubhouse too. Again, good food, OK service. But its very convenient if you are playing the New/Jubilee or waiting out an Old Course slot.

 

We wanted to get to the Steak Barn but they dont take reservations. Also missed out on the St Andrews Waffle Company which we heard was very good.

 

If I only had one night out in town, I would eat dinner at the Tailend (make a reservation if you can although we didnt have one) and then hit The Keys for drinks.

[davep043]

Guess this is as good a place to start as any.

 

So food/bar wise we ended up hitting some really good spots - some more than once. Depends on what you like really. There are apparently a couple of nightclub/late night type places - cant comment on those good or bad. But it depends on whether you're looking for sort of more popular, crowded, touristy spots or more locals type places.

 

And if there's one thing a list like this shows its just how much you can miss if you blow through St Andrews in a day or two.

 

Dunvegan - went once because we felt like we had to. Made a reservation for dinner through the hotel but ended up sitting in the bar area anyway. Food was decent. I dont know, if we hadnt gone I wouldnt have felt like we missed anything. IMO its a bit overrated - at least compared to some other options. Our cab driver told us the Dunvegan nickname is the "American embassy". But so many people were saying "Oh you have to go to the Dunvegan, you have to". OK, I went. Yeah, there are a ton of pictures hung up on the wall. And oh how quaint, a trough in the mens room instead of urinals. On any return trips though, it wont be on the list.

 

If you are only there for one night, I wouldn't go.

 

Jigger - worth going if you can sit outside and watch people play up 17. Absolutely beautiful spot in the late afternoon/early evening with the view of the city. BTW "early evening" at this time of year is around 9pm LOL. If we had been just sitting inside, I'm not sure I would have gone. Another place people say you have to go to, so we went. Would go back if we could sit outside.

 

The Keys - Probably my favorite place of the whole trip. Small place, very much a locals and caddie hangout. Primarily a whisky spot but a good amount of beer too. Never ate here, honestly not sure I saw anyone eating there. But we watched the first half of the Man U game there on Friday night and it was so much fun. Just a great crowd. Again its small, couldn't go there with a big group and expect to get in let alone get seats. Went three different nights.

 

Whey Pat - Another local place although a little bigger. Couple of blocks off the main drag/s but certainly not far enough away that you would need a cab. Quiet spot, great service. Probably an easier place to go with a group because there is a lot more room to spread out.

 

Criterion - Were told it was a sports bar but when we went the tvs were all off and they werent showing any games at all. Nonetheless really good bartenders and the locals that were there said the food was good.

 

Foodwise we really liked Forgans and Tailend. Tailend is a chip shop up front - or some type of to-go operation - and then a restaurant in the back. A+ food, great service. Same with Forgans. Cool interior space with the entrance down an alley, excellent drink menu, really good bartender.

 

We ate in the Fairmont clubhouse one day for lunch. Beautiful spot, hard to beat the views. Ate a couple meals in the Links Clubhouse too. Again, good food, OK service. But its very convenient if you are playing the New/Jubilee or waiting out an Old Course slot.

 

We wanted to get to the Steak Barn but they dont take reservations. Also missed out on the St Andrews Waffle Company which we heard was very good.

 

If I only had one night out in town, I would eat dinner at the Tailend (make a reservation if you can although we didnt have one) and then hit The Keys for drinks.

I was in town in 2011 and 2012, and I agree entirely with this. I can also recommend Jahangir for Indian (the national food of the UK). Another cool place to get a drinnk is at the bar at Russack's Hotel. Go just around sundown, its a great vantage point to watch the last few players of the day play the 18th on the Old Course.

Something I've done in both Scotland and Ireland is to visit the same pub a few nights running. Strike up conversations, both with the customers and the bartenders. The second night someone is almost certain to recognize you, and welcome you back. By the third night, you'll be almost like a local.

[dcmidnight]

Couple of my quick favorites from the trip.

 

Teeing off on the 16th at Carnoustie, playing almost 210 yards, into the wind. Cool to see it framed off with the grandstands. Laced a perfectly low 5 iron to the front of the green and it rolled to a foot. Actually was a little less than a foot. Best shot of the trip. Played the last 4 holes in even par.

 

 

Teeing off on 18 of the Old Course

 

[dcmidnight]

St Andrews before sunrise

 

 

 

 

[dcmidnight]

Old guys playing with their dogs

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Great pics!

[scott_Donald]

awesome pics.

 

you have now got me in the mood to play links golf on Monday!

 

you must have a nice Camera, loving the detail in the pictures, especially the night ones.

[tacrispy]

Great Pics, it has really greened up around there since our week there during the Open.

[eagle1997]

FOLLOWING

 

[dcmidnight]

you must have a nice Camera, loving the detail in the pictures, especially the night ones.

 

Carried the Sony RX100V in my back pocket the whole trip. Small enough to leave there and not notice it at all, produces great RAW files for prints and good enough JPEGs for posting. I still have the original RX100 but decided on the upgrade for the trip because of the popup viewfinder, made it so easy to use in the bright sun. IMO if you're a photography nerd and you travel a lot, its the perfect camera. Not inexpensive but well worth it. The low light pictures it takes are really incredible - cant post 20+MB RAW files here but I am loving how those night shots came out.

 

Got lucky on the Old Course in that my brother and friends met me on 16 tee and took pics from there on in. I have video evidence of me making a par on 18 after firing my drive off a building. True story. Also the empty slot I filled was part of a corporate group that had hired an OC photographer so he was able to snap a few really great shots of me and a *perfect* group bridge shot. Have to pay for the digital files but well worth it.

 

If you do go - anywhere really - make a Google Album for everyone to use. That way everyone can dump their pics/vids in after the trip.

 

Great Pics, it has really greened up around there since our week there during the Open.

 

Our caddie at Carnousite said that they got one good overnight rain and it greened up in a couple of days. The turf is still hard as a rock but its definitely greener than it was.

 

Still owe - course writeups/pics, Old Course writeup and ballot/line info, equipment comments and whatever else I can think of.

[Hawkeye77]

Hit a building on 18? Must provide the story!

[fredstar]

Will do a full writeup eventually including a lot of pics but would also take any questions people have as I know we have a lot of people going over this year.

 

Also met a guy from Australia in line at the Old Course on Friday AM that was right behind me and my brother in line, I was 7 and he was 8. He said he hooked up with another WRXer and got a ballot time on Saturday. Wont throw his name out there but if hes here and recognizes this, would love to hear if you got out on Friday!

 

All I can say is, if you are on the fence about going on a trip like this - JUST GO.

 

Hey mate, that's me! Great to meet you guys and glad you both finally got on TOC. I teed off at 130 on friday. Played like a dog! Saturday was much better, weather and my game (18 shots better). Totally agree with all your views on spots to eat and drink. Dunvegan has to be the most overrated place in town. Tailend and Forgans are excellent.

 

I played Royal Aberdeen today which was super impressive. Cruden Bay the next two days.

 

Enjoying your posts.

[dcmidnight]

Hey mate, that's me! Great to meet you guys and glad you both finally got on TOC. I teed off at 130 on friday. Played like a dog! Saturday was much better, weather and my game (18 shots better). Totally agree with all your views on spots to eat and drink. Dunvegan has to be the most overrated place in town. Tailend and Forgans are excellent.

 

I played Royal Aberdeen today which was super impressive. Cruden Bay the next two days.

 

Enjoying your posts.

 

Hey man awesome to meet you too. Glad you got out on Friday! I played out of my head, went 39-39 with a 6 on 17 after somehow losing a ball that everyone on the walking path "knew" right where it was. More importantly, absolutely blasted the tee shot on 1, was giddy for the next few holes.

 

Cannot wait to hear about Cruden Bay!!!

[dcmidnight]

Old Course Ballot info

 

So not having got into my pictures yet, as good a time as any to talk about the Old Course ballot. And given that my trip was in high season, thats probably all it applies to. If you go in January you probably wont have these problems. But then again I was in Scotland for 8 days and it was low 60s and sunny every single day so...they probably call it high season for a reason :-)

 

I guess the first thing is, if you really absolutely must play the Old Course, pay a company that has a guaranteed tee time. No matter what it costs. Plan your entire trip around it. Enter the advanced ballot in September for the following year - which you will probably lose - and then find a company that can accomodate you. If you want to go in July and August your chances might be limited in terms of a guranteed spot. But if there was one mistake we made it was this. The number of available slots can be SO SMALL on certain days but you wont know until you get to the Old Course that morning.

 

So we entered the annual ballot for a foursome like just about everyone else. And lost. So our next plan was entering the daily ballot 6 times. All losers.

 

Here's the one thing they dont really tell you. The "busy times" that they put on their website - which you are allegedly supposed to be able to tell how busy the course is going to be - they may be completely inaccurate. The R&A can have as big a block of times as they want and they basically dont have to tell anyone. I may write something on this later but talking to so many people that worked at the Old Course from managers down to caddies, the relationship between them and the R&A members seems...interseting. Dont rely on that list I guess is what I'm saying.

 

So we decided to wait in line on Wednesday morning. Showed up at 2:15am....to find that 13 people had spent the night in line. We knew right then there was basically no chance but we waited it out until 6am anyway when they called us in. At 6 they bring you into the pavilion in a nice calm line and you talk to the guy in charge one at a time. (another sidenote - the guys working the OC pavillion were some of the nicest and most patient people we met all trip). So that guy will have a tee sheet printed out for the day - which you can also see on the app - and he will tell you what he thinks. And they dont sugar coat it.

 

If you see blanks in morning tee times, chances are its a local member. So while that may look promising, they dont have to take people with them if they dont want to. And the people there really seemed to know, oh these guys are great they will take two, these guys not so much. So even if you look the night before and see ten "spaces" you will never actually know until @ 3-5 minutes before that tee time if they will take someone. So...no warming up, no time for a quick bucket - that will be 180 pounds, now get on the tee box lol.

 

BTW - you will have no chance of walking on as a foursome. None. Singles, absolutely. Twosomes, maybe. But no chance of a foursome.

 

There are also three or four "dark times" that are at the very end of the day. Up until 9am local members can call and reserve those tee times. That happened on both days. We were told that those are almost never available this time of year save for a spot here and there.

 

So we found out that we were 14-17 in line. We could wait around for cancellations in the dark times but at that point we decided it wasnt worth it. We grabbed our gear and walked over to the Links Clubhouse to have breakfast and hop on the New Course. Its...hilarious that the "fallback plan" for most people on days like this was to play the New or Jubilee Courses.

 

Success story post to follow.

[Hawkeye77]

Most comprehensive writeup I've seen, great job!

 

Any insights on the 48 hour ballot? I put in for the annual lottery on more of a hopeful whim last year and we got lucky, so we went this year! In the future if we want to go I figure I'll put in the the annual ballot and if unsuccessful, just make the decision whether St. Andrews would be part of the trip (loved the Dornoch area and would love to explore more from Inverness along the coast to Aberdeen and the courses along the southwest coast, but love St. Andrews so much) and if it is, then try the 48 hour ballot.

[dcmidnight]

Most comprehensive writeup I've seen, great job!

 

Any insights on the 48 hour ballot? I put in for the annual lottery on more of a hopeful whim last year and we got lucky, so we went this year! In the future if we want to go I figure I'll put in the the annual ballot and if unsuccessful, just make the decision whether St. Andrews would be part of the trip (loved the Dornoch area and would love to explore more from Inverness along the coast to Aberdeen and the courses along the southwest coast, but love St. Andrews so much) and if it is, then try the 48 hour ballot.

 

I get the feeling there were very few daily ballot slots - especially this time of year. Between blocks of time for tournaments or the R&A times, then annual ballot winners and then the guaranteed slots they sell - not a ton of slots left. I would still enter it though, cant hurt!

[dcmidnight]

So after failing on Wednesday my brother and I decided we were going to give it one more shot on Friday. Last full day of the trip, only one thing left on the list to do. We figured 2a is about as early as you can show up while still getting sleep in your own bed and we're too old to sleep on the cement. So we thought we'd give it one more shot. Got there right @ 2:15a and my brother was 6 in line, I was 7. This was a really good sign - but this still means 5 people slept in line lol. We figured there were about 14 available slots so if even half those were available - cancellations notwithstanding - we'd be good. We allowed ourselves a few seconds of excitement before realizing we still had four hours of sitting on the cement ahead of us.

 

* If you go early, bring a backpack with stuff in it. Ipad to watch movies. Books. Food. Whatever. There is a bag room inside where they let you store your clubs and bags so dont worry about having to lug it around all day.

 

Fredstar showed up @ 230a or so and then people started trickling in after 3 or 330a. As much as it sucked, there was something surreal about sitting out there. The city is so beautiful when it starts getting light. Seagulls blaring around, ocean, mowers start reving up around 5a, people from all over the world to talk to. While I never, ever want to do it again - it is pretty cool.

 

So at 6 we go in and the guy gives us the same shpiel he did before - each person checks in one at a time, show your hdcp card, tell them if you want a caddie, then have a seat. The pavillion is a great spot to wait though, snack bar, restrooms, wifi, overlooking the first tee - worse spots to wait. A couple of the early slots had been filled by locals already so I think #1 guy in the line got out around 7 or so. My brother and I had hoped to get out as a twosome but suddenly in rapid succession they were taking guys off the list. At 810 or so he came up to us and said hey I had a cancellation at 820 and I told my brother to grab it. Zero question. And then he was off, race to pay, get a little welcome bag and scorecard, grab clubs and run off. We were so excited, definitely got a litle choked up watching him tee off.

 

So the head guy running the line comes to me and says so the R&A block runs from 9-10 but I'm getting you out after that. He always would say "I cant guarantee things" but it was pretty clear I was getting out.

 

(and just to show how even relatively few people can get off on a seemingly open day - my brother got out at 820, I went off at 1040 and Fredstar went out at 130 and we were 6-7-8 in line)

 

Then right at 1030 he says I have a spot at 1040. Boom.

 

I had to slow myself down from literally running to the first tee. By that time there were probably 40-50 people milling around watching between non golfers from town, tourist groups just watching and the people in the pavillion. And we had watched some good golfers make some *bad* first tee swings. But I kind of...blacked out standing behind my ball, just taking in the whole scene, it was freaking incredible to be standing there. My caddie asked if I was good and that the target is the center of the fairway - its 150 yards wide lol. Dont really remember the swing or anything but I absolutely blasted one, on the absolute dead center line, @ 280 yards.

[eagle1997]

this is fantastic reading, really enjoying it.

 

can't wait to see all the pics as well.

 

MOAR please.

[scott_Donald]

I played Royal Aberdeen today which was super impressive. Cruden Bay the next two days.

 

Enjoying your posts.

 

How was Royal Aberdeen? I will play there on Monday afternoon.

 

How was Cruden Bay, strange you are doing two days there, I am still to play there this year.

[cardoustie]

Thanks for the memories

 

I stayed about 300 yards from the 1st tee at the Old on Howard Street in 2012. 8 of us. Incredible trip. We had a back patio to sit on and a pot bunker to hit shots from when the glow was at the right level

 

Like you we stayed in St. Andrews the whole time and had a bus guy - from the golf outfit that booked our times - pick us up every morning and take us to all the courses outside of town

 

The town and people are incredible. And the whole town has a golf vibe to it

 

We were there when the Ryder Cup was at Medinah, and it was the week before the Dunhill Links, so it was awesome to play, come home and then head out to pubs to watch some world class match play golf. We were sure to let everyone know we were Canadian (and that my grandmother's family was Scots) and watch some awesome golf

 

I can still recall drinking some 33 year Tomintoul scotch at a dirt cheap price .. 9 pounds or something for a healthy pour

 

Good lord we spent a lot of money on red wine and other adult beverages on our trip at the local shop

 

The only negative was getting out to Muirfield on not playing due to severe winds

 

Except for the 18th hole ... we all loved Kingsbarns

[fredstar]

I played Royal Aberdeen today which was super impressive. Cruden Bay the next two days.

 

Enjoying your posts.

 

How was Royal Aberdeen? I will play there on Monday afternoon.

 

How was Cruden Bay, strange you are doing two days there, I am still to play there this year.

 

Despite not being sure about it beforehand, I loved Royal Aberdeen. Tough layout going out and very narrow. Some of the best green complexes and surrounds I have seen. The grass was pretty much perfect. Managed to shoot 76.

 

Just finished my round at Cruden Bay. It is very interesting and good variety of holes. The view from the highest point on 9 tee is spectacular. Not sure of a better view anywhere. I am here for two nights but I don't think I will play again tomorrow. I think the hype was a little too much. Conditioning was varied, from perfect to very ordinary from hole to hole.

[fredstar]

Hey mate, that's me! Great to meet you guys and glad you both finally got on TOC. I teed off at 130 on friday. Played like a dog! Saturday was much better, weather and my game (18 shots better). Totally agree with all your views on spots to eat and drink. Dunvegan has to be the most overrated place in town. Tailend and Forgans are excellent.

 

I played Royal Aberdeen today which was super impressive. Cruden Bay the next two days.

 

Enjoying your posts.

 

Hey man awesome to meet you too. Glad you got out on Friday! I played out of my head, went 39-39 with a 6 on 17 after somehow losing a ball that everyone on the walking path "knew" right where it was. More importantly, absolutely blasted the tee shot on 1, was giddy for the next few holes.

 

Cannot wait to hear about Cruden Bay!!!

 

Awesome, well played. Did you go off the white tees? Funny how 17 tee shots are hard to judge where they end up.

 

That first tee shot had my legs feeling like jelly haha. I shot 91 on Friday, nothing went right in any way. Next day shot 73, despite a double on the 2nd. It is the best experience regardless.

[scott_Donald]

Despite not being sure about it beforehand, I loved Royal Aberdeen. Tough layout going out and very narrow. Some of the best green complexes and surrounds I have seen. The grass was pretty much perfect. Managed to shoot 76.

 

Just finished my round at Cruden Bay. It is very interesting and good variety of holes. The view from the highest point on 9 tee is spectacular. Not sure of a better view anywhere. I am here for two nights but I don't think I will play again tomorrow. I think the hype was a little too much. Conditioning was varied, from perfect to very ordinary from hole to hole.

 

 

Why not sure about Royal Aberdeen? well played to shoot 76, a pair of them would have had you qualify for the club championship at the weekend.

 

2nd hole green complex is terrible the rest are good.

 

Cruden Bay is fun but I can see what you say. where you going to play tomorrow? Trump? it was fun a couple months ago but condition was nothing compared to Royal Aberdeen.