Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[BuzzCat]

Putting friends...I played with a guy this week who was a pretty good putter.  He did the thing where he would walk about halfway to the cup from his ball and practice a fake putt at this point.  What exactly was he, and other people I've seen doing this, trying to achieve?  Are they trying to find the high point where the ball starts rolling straight?  Is the idea that if you can just get the ball to that point gravity will take over?

[nitram]

51 minutes ago, BuzzCat said:

Putting friends...I played with a guy this week who was a pretty good putter.  He did the thing where he would walk about halfway to the cup from his ball and practice a fake putt at this point.  What exactly was he, and other people I've seen doing this, trying to achieve?  Are they trying to find the high point where the ball starts rolling straight?  Is the idea that if you can just get the ball to that point gravity will take over?

That's partially the answer. I will do this with a grain and/or elevation change within the putt to get a better idea of the speed needed from this point.

[indianagolf2]

Big difference in putting is feel, proper break, and good putting stroke. Feel means if you looking at 9 foot putt, that your looking to roll ball over a point closer then the destination. The more you can get really good speed to that poin,  better the success. Similar to a QB football has to lead the receiver on a football pass. Half way to cup confirms break and speed. Please look at various putting tips etc youtube. Mike malaska has one i think 17 minutes long. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by indianagolf2

[indianagolf2]

Spoiler

Deleted

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by indianagolf2

[MrFlipper]

Hey @Obee

 

Just read all 16 pages. Will put your ideas, esp the mental stuff, to work starting tomorrow. 

 

I'm a 64 year old 7 hdcp that's tired of 35 putts per round. Things are gonna change.

 

Really appreciate it. Thanks!

[MrFlipper]

On 6/18/2021 at 7:10 PM, MrFlipper said:

Hey @Obee

 

Just read all 16 pages. Will put your ideas, esp the mental stuff, to work starting tomorrow. 

 

I'm a 64 year old 7 hdcp that's tired of 35 putts per round. Things are gonna change.

 

Really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

Played 18 today. Am rolling the ball correctly. Focused on aligning the line on the ball to the correct line of the putt, putting aggressively, and positive self talk.

 

Wow. 30 putts. No 3 putts. Felt like I had a chance every time. Wiped a 3 footer on the last hole to shoot one over. I don't care, I feel good about the process. Only bad stroke all day.

 

Thanks again! What a huge difference!! I'm sticking with it.

[Obee]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:12 PM, MrFlipper said:

 

Played 18 today. Am rolling the ball correctly. Focused on aligning the line on the ball to the correct line of the putt, putting aggressively, and positive self talk.

 

Wow. 30 putts. No 3 putts. Felt like I had a chance every time. Wiped a 3 footer on the last hole to shoot one over. I don't care, I feel good about the process. Only bad stroke all day.

 

Thanks again! What a huge difference!! I'm sticking with it.

Dude. So great to read this!!!

[bortass]

I have a question for you guys. My historical putting pattern is to die it around the hole. So I would miss short putts low because they didn't have enough pace to overcome the break right at the hole. I saw the advice here to putt the short ones firmly to take out the break and had great results doing that in late May. What I am now seeing is I am missing short putts high. It got real bad this weekend when I missed 5 putts inside 4 feet, including a couple 2 footers... I am going to keep working on it because I saw how good putting short ones firmly can be even if I suck at it lately.

 

My question is did any of you have the same thing happen? Just wondering how common this is. I guess the good part is at least the miss is high, so in theory it could go in versus missing low and never reaching the hole.

[MrFlipper]

On 7/19/2021 at 12:54 PM, bortass said:

I have a question for you guys. My historical putting pattern is to die it around the hole. So I would miss short putts low because they didn't have enough pace to overcome the break right at the hole. I saw the advice here to putt the short ones firmly to take out the break and had great results doing that in late May. What I am now seeing is I am missing short putts high. It got real bad this weekend when I missed 5 putts inside 4 feet, including a couple 2 footers... I am going to keep working on it because I saw how good putting short ones firmly can be even if I suck at it lately.

 

My question is did any of you have the same thing happen? Just wondering how common this is. I guess the good part is at least the miss is high, so in theory it could go in versus missing low and never reaching the hole.

Well, since no one else answered I'll throw in my 2 cents

 

I'd suggest that if you are planning to hit putts aggressively, you don't want to aim outside the hole. Pick an edge at most, hit it hard. Don't be aiming the ball outside the hole unless it is a huge breaker, and prob not even then. 

 

Think positive, hit it. Don't think too much!

[shortstop20]

On 6/3/2021 at 5:18 PM, remlap13 said:

Really interesting thread to have stumbled upon.. 9 index here, long off the tee, terrible putting. It's always been the worst and most inconsistent part of my game. Over the 10 rounds I've played this year, I'm averaging 7 GiR (high of 13, low of 5), and 35 putts (high of 39, low of 33) per round. That 13 GiR round was also the one with 39 putts, for a final score of 80. Infuriating.

 

It seems to be the short putts that are most troubling to me mentally, especially when it comes to distance control. I have not kept track of putt distance or makes from certain distances, but I know that leaving putts short is where most of my misses are. This manifests itself in one of two ways: I leave a 6 foot putt a foot short or I miss a 6 foot putt low because I hit it with just enough power to drop into the hole, despite picking a line that requires more speed. There are times when I'll push or pull a putt as well, but this usually happens when I don't trust my initial line, and subconsciously adjust my stroke as it's happening to try and steer the ball.  

 

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but do you have any tips for people like me who putt "scared" and consistently hit putts softer than they should? Is it all mental? Are there actual drills that can be done (at home or on a putting green) to help fix this? 

 

I gotta say, it's inspiring/frustrating to see all these people talk about going sub-30! 😄 

 

For me it's been an issue where my backstroke has gotten too short and as such I have a long follow thru where I'm pushing thru the stroke to get the necessary speed on the ball. 

 

So now what I'm working on is basically the opposite, let the putter go back further in the backstroke and less forward swing. I'm seeing better speed and face control.

 

On 7/19/2021 at 1:54 PM, bortass said:

I have a question for you guys. My historical putting pattern is to die it around the hole. So I would miss short putts low because they didn't have enough pace to overcome the break right at the hole. I saw the advice here to putt the short ones firmly to take out the break and had great results doing that in late May. What I am now seeing is I am missing short putts high. It got real bad this weekend when I missed 5 putts inside 4 feet, including a couple 2 footers... I am going to keep working on it because I saw how good putting short ones firmly can be even if I suck at it lately.

 

My question is did any of you have the same thing happen? Just wondering how common this is. I guess the good part is at least the miss is high, so in theory it could go in versus missing low and never reaching the hole.

 

I think you just have to retrain yourself to play less break, that's what I'm finding out. 

[getitdaily]

On 7/22/2021 at 5:42 PM, MrFlipper said:

Well, since no one else answered I'll throw in my 2 cents

 

I'd suggest that if you are planning to hit putts aggressively, you don't want to aim outside the hole. Pick an edge at most, hit it hard. Don't be aiming the ball outside the hole unless it is a huge breaker, and prob not even then. 

 

Think positive, hit it. Don't think too much!

Inside 5 feet, you should never aim outside the hole if you intend to putt it firmly. 

[getitdaily]

2 day tournament this weekend. Went 25 putts on 14 greens and 28 putts on 11 greens. 

 

I have not plumbobbed a putt since my first reply in this thread a few months ago. More diligent on reads, firmer pace. Working well. I think I've been over 32 putts just once since that first post. And that 1 bad putting round was on slow, punched greens.

 

All other 30+ putt rounds have come on greens that were either really slow or had been punched within 3 weeks of playing.

Edited August 2, 2021 by getitdaily

[nitram]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

2 day tournament this weekend. Went 25 putts on 14 greens and 28 putts on 11 greens. 

 

I have not plumbobbed a putt since my first reply in this thread a few months ago. More diligent on reads, firmer pace. Working well. I think I've been over 32 putts just once since that first post. And that 1 bad putting round was on slow, punched greens.

The other side of the equation is how many 4-7-ft. "comebackers" do you see in a round and what's your percentage on them?

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, nitram said:

The other side of the equation is how many 4-7-ft. "comebackers" do you see in a round and what's your percentage on them?

None. If you hit a putt so hard that it's running 4-7 by then you're not making it even if it hits the center. My pace is firm but not excitable...

[nitram]

Exactly, and that is where I think most folks misunderstand the "hit it firm" phrase, especially when they see Phil knock a 6 footer 6-8 feet past the hole. I play almost all of my putts (inside 15 ft) to end up 18-24 inches past the hole (Dave Pelz). Now for some that's considered firm. But it's what I've found works best for me in the past 25 years. 

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, nitram said:

Exactly, and that is where I think most folks misunderstand the "hit it firm" phrase, especially when they see Phil knock a 6 footer 6-8 feet past the hole. I play almost all of my putts (inside 15 ft) to end up 18-24 inches past the hole (Dave Pelz). Now for some that's considered firm. But it's what I've found works best for me in the past 25 years. 

Agree. Firm can be defined as hard enough to remove some break while not running by the hole more than 2 feet. If one is running a putt 4 feet by then they're not putting firmly, they're putting hard.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:24 PM, EddieEdwards said:

 

 

I still need to work on seeing the correct line when over the ball.  Also, speed control has suffered a bit, but its only been a few rounds and I expect it to improve with time.

 

 

@EddieEdwards This Malaska segment on Be Better Golf Vlog helped me immensely with seeing the same line above and behind the ball:

 

 

I needed my eyeline to be about an inch inside the ball instead of directly over the ball.

 

3 hours ago, nitram said:

Exactly, and that is where I think most folks misunderstand the "hit it firm" phrase, especially when they see Phil knock a 6 footer 6-8 feet past the hole. I play almost all of my putts (inside 15 ft) to end up 18-24 inches past the hole (Dave Pelz). Now for some that's considered firm. But it's what I've found works best for me in the past 25 years. 

 

One part of my pre-round routine is to take 3 balls and start at 3' on a flat putt. Make all three just dying them in the front edge, then 3 firm enough to hit the back of the cup (targeting the line between the actual cup and the turf), then 3 at my normal "making" speed.

 

Then putt all 3 in the die-firm-make speed pattern. Then go to 5' and do it again.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by D0ch0l1d4y
grammar

[MrFlipper]

5 hours ago, getitdaily said:

2 day tournament this weekend. Went 25 putts on 14 greens and 28 putts on 11 greens. 

 

I have not plumbobbed a putt since my first reply in this thread a few months ago. More diligent on reads, firmer pace. Working well. I think I've been over 32 putts just once since that first post. And that 1 bad putting round was on slow, punched greens.

 

All other 30+ putt rounds have come on greens that were either really slow or had been punched within 3 weeks of playing.

Saw a prev post of yours here, that you had allowed plumb bobbing to dictate reads, and you cut it out.

 

I'm a plumb bobber from my youth, but knees are shot, can't crouch behind the ball, but still having a hard time taking plumb bobbing out of my routine.

 

Can you elaborate please on your comments above re no more plumb bobbing and being more diligent in reads? How you were able to let go of plumb bobbing? What do you do read wise that is different than before?

 

Thanks, and regards

[getitdaily]

34 minutes ago, MrFlipper said:

Saw a prev post of yours here, that you had allowed plumb bobbing to dictate reads, and you cut it out.

 

I'm a plumb bobber from my youth, but knees are shot, can't crouch behind the ball, but still having a hard time taking plumb bobbing out of my routine.

 

Can you elaborate please on your comments above re no more plumb bobbing and being more diligent in reads? How you were able to let go of plumb bobbing? What do you do read wise that is different than before?

 

Thanks, and regards

I assessed 1 round and found that I missed several makeable putts because of line and speed. Prior to that pot earlier in the thread, I would make a cursory read of the putt, plumb bob, and usually allow plumb Bob's line to dictate my line. 

 

When I eliminated plumb bob, I simply started looking around more. I started looking at putts from every angle. Then started using speed to dictate my line vs the line dictating speed. 

 

I just started trusting my reads more. I don't crouch behind the ball often. Most breaks can be seen without a crouch. The only time I really crouch is if I see a putt breaking both ways from different sides (that putt is almost always inside the hole). 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, MrFlipper said:

Saw a prev post of yours here, that you had allowed plumb bobbing to dictate reads, and you cut it out.

 

I'm a plumb bobber from my youth, but knees are shot, can't crouch behind the ball, but still having a hard time taking plumb bobbing out of my routine.

 

Can you elaborate please on your comments above re no more plumb bobbing and being more diligent in reads? How you were able to let go of plumb bobbing? What do you do read wise that is different than before?

 

Thanks, and regards

Biggest key...find the fall line of the break of the green or section of green. From there it gets more simple using a + method. 

 

Starting upper left on the +, upper left is 1, upper right is 2, lower left is 3, lower right is 4. The hole is the center of the +.

 

Top of the + is top of the slope (high side), bottom of the + is the low side.

 

A putt from quad 1 to the hole will always break right. The closer you get to quad 3, the more break. The closer you get to quad 2, the less break. A putt from quad 3 will always break right. The closer to quad 1, the more the break. 

 

All you have to do is find the fall line (the line where the putt is dead straight) and your ball's position in the + related to that line. 

 

It's how I do it....

[Nels55]

6 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Agree. Firm can be defined as hard enough to remove some break while not running by the hole more than 2 feet. If one is running a putt 4 feet by then they're not putting firmly, they're putting hard.

LOL most of the time.  I often have putts that are either going in or going 5 to 10 feet past the hole.  Not possible to stop the ball at the hole.  Those putts have to be hit hard enough to hold the line as just getting the ball moving will cause the putt to wander instead of tracking and the ball will most likely miss the hole and still end up with a long come backer.  I am finding that I really enjoy testing myself on those putts.  It is fun when they go in and I also pride myself on the giving the 10 footer coming back a good roll when I do miss one.  Of course it is better to leave the ball below the hole on those types of pins but I am simply not that good with my long game or my short game...

[MrFlipper]

59 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Biggest key...find the fall line of the break of the green or section of green. From there it gets more simple using a + method. 

 

Starting upper left on the +, upper left is 1, upper right is 2, lower left is 3, lower right is 4. The hole is the center of the +.

 

Top of the + is top of the slope (high side), bottom of the + is the low side.

 

A putt from quad 1 to the hole will always break right. The closer you get to quad 3, the more break. The closer you get to quad 2, the less break. A putt from quad 3 will always break right. The closer to quad 1, the more the break. 

 

All you have to do is find the fall line (the line where the putt is dead straight) and your ball's position in the + related to that line. 

 

It's how I do it....

 

I'll try it!

 

Have been generally able to identify direction of break but not accurately relative to the fall line, which appears crucial to your method. Previously haven't tried to specifically identify the fall line, which sounds foolish in hindsight. 

 

Thanks again, not just for responding in general but also adding this specific part of your process!

[Tupperwolf]

I want to get in on some putting improvement.

Current putting stats are averaging 34.6 putts with 2.1 GIR putts and 1.8 non-GIR putts.

I'd love to be under 31 putts consistently.

 

What I've done to improve my putting:  Bought the new 2021 PING Tyne 4 putter, 34".  I am very comfortable with this putter without getting a fitting.  I have committed to putting LHL for the future.  I really want to love putting RHL because it just feels good but my results are so much better LHL even if it feels more "mechanical".  I blacked out the site line on the putter with a sharpie and I use the fangs for alignment.  I turn my toes in a little bit a la Hideki in order to keep lower body quiet so the hips don't get involved.  I purchased a greens book for the course I plan to play most in the future, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.  Really committing to rolling in shorter putts with pace so I can keep the aim inside the hole.

 

I am a pretty good green reader, but struggle when the greens are very flat, yesterday I played a course like this (Moffett GC) and kept missing on the pro side because I expected the ball to break.  Almost every putt could have been aimed within the hole and would have had a chance to fall.  I did have very good distance control though - just missed a lot of putts that in hindsight could have gone in.

[Obee]

5 hours ago, Tupperwolf said:

I want to get in on some putting improvement.

Current putting stats are averaging 34.6 putts with 2.1 GIR putts and 1.8 non-GIR putts.

I'd love to be under 31 putts consistently.

 

What I've done to improve my putting:  Bought the new 2021 PING Tyne 4 putter, 34".  I am very comfortable with this putter without getting a fitting.  I have committed to putting LHL for the future.  I really want to love putting RHL because it just feels good but my results are so much better LHL even if it feels more "mechanical".  I blacked out the site line on the putter with a sharpie and I use the fangs for alignment.  I turn my toes in a little bit a la Hideki in order to keep lower body quiet so the hips don't get involved.  I purchased a greens book for the course I plan to play most in the future, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.  Really committing to rolling in shorter putts with pace so I can keep the aim inside the hole.

 

I am a pretty good green reader, but struggle when the greens are very flat, yesterday I played a course like this (Moffett GC) and kept missing on the pro side because I expected the ball to break.  Almost every putt could have been aimed within the hole and would have had a chance to fall.  I did have very good distance control though - just missed a lot of putts that in hindsight could have gone in.

 

34.6 putts is, quite simply, too many for a player capable of playing 6-index golf. How many 3-putts do you average per round? 1.5? More?

 

You can absolutely get to 31 putts per round -- or better. You got this. 🙂

 

How is your short game (chipping and pitching -- 20ish yards from the green)?

[D0ch0l1d4y]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:59 PM, D0ch0l1d4y said:

I've been lurking mostly on this thread, and taking advice from the posts. Over the winter implementing some of the tips here I've gotten to consistently roll the ball end-over-end.

Background on me - 40y.o. dad of 3 under 6y.o...so I don't play much and practice even less. Used to hold a +HC, but now I've held a HC between 2-4 for the last 15 years. Putting has ALWAYS been a problem.

Two things that have helped

Adjustment of where I squat when reading/aligning putts. I'm right-handed, left-eye dominant. Hadn't really thought much about it, but moving slightly off-center has helped in the alignment area.

Alignment calibration using the line on the ball - Malaska techniques as presented on Be Better Golf Vlog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7RrP1DtM3oBall striking and tee ball have always been strengths - putting and short-game the weakness. I've shot 76 with 38 putts.

 

I've averaged just short of 37 putts the last 10 rounds (last year - pre adjustment).

 

 

 

 

On 4/7/2020 at 8:47 PM, Obee said:

Love to hear about this! 30 putts per round is definitely doable. Keep that in your sights! 🙂

 

@Obee Just averaged up all my scores since my original post.

 

15 total rounds since June of 2020

 

Average Score: 77.1

Average putts: 30.8

Average FIR: 8.8 (49.4%)

Average GIR: 9.4 (52.7%)

 

Index dropped from 2.3 to 1.4.

 

Thank you for starting this thread - I don't think I make that jump without it!

[sekrah]

I'm notoriously bad putter with speed control issues but I've seen some decent improvement lately so I want to share what I think is helping me.

 

I started visualizing the speed I want the ball moving at the half-way point to the hole. 

 

20 feet out? I'm looking at 8-12 feet out and visualizing how fast the ball should be moving to get to 20 feet.    10 feet, I'm looking at 4-6 feet.

 

Make sure when you're on the practice green you're practicing these specific distances and focusing on the speed of the entire putt and the outcome.  Give it a shot guys and let me know if this helped.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by sekrah

[thejazzmarauder]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:34 PM, getitdaily said:

Biggest key...find the fall line of the break of the green or section of green. From there it gets more simple using a + method. 

 

Starting upper left on the +, upper left is 1, upper right is 2, lower left is 3, lower right is 4. The hole is the center of the +.

 

Top of the + is top of the slope (high side), bottom of the + is the low side.

 

A putt from quad 1 to the hole will always break right. The closer you get to quad 3, the more break. The closer you get to quad 2, the less break. A putt from quad 3 will always break right. The closer to quad 1, the more the break. 

 

All you have to do is find the fall line (the line where the putt is dead straight) and your ball's position in the + related to that line. 

 

It's how I do it....

 

This is similar to the method that Geoff Mangum teaches. I've found it really helps to orient yourself that way and section off the green. 

[_chs_]

Hey there,

 

I have been reading this thread over the summer and my putting has improved dramatically.  I love working on the 4 footers and gaining confidence in them. Instead of doubting myself, I know I can put a good stroke on the ball and make a majority of these putts.  Before reading this thread and practicing, I would have so much doubt and insecurity about 2,3 and 4 foot putts. Sure, not all go in but I am putting much better than before.  So thank you to everyone who has contributed. 
 

I would love to hear your thoughts on where people focus their eyes on the ball.  Do you look at the back of the ball, the front or the top?  After playing today, I practiced for a little while and tried to focus my eyes on a dimple, in the middle of the ball, on the very top. What is your process?
 

thanks in advance,  

 

chs

 

index 8.3

Score today 77

Total putts 30 (no 3 putts)

 

[Nels55]

12 hours ago, _chs_ said:

Hey there,

 

I have been reading this thread over the summer and my putting has improved dramatically.  I love working on the 4 footers and gaining confidence in them. Instead of doubting myself, I know I can put a good stroke on the ball and make a majority of these putts.  Before reading this thread and practicing, I would have so much doubt and insecurity about 2,3 and 4 foot putts. Sure, not all go in but I am putting much better than before.  So thank you to everyone who has contributed. 
 

I would love to hear your thoughts on where people focus their eyes on the ball.  Do you look at the back of the ball, the front or the top?  After playing today, I practiced for a little while and tried to focus my eyes on a dimple, in the middle of the ball, on the very top. What is your process?
 

thanks in advance,  

 

chs

 

index 8.3

Score today 77

Total putts 30 (no 3 putts)

 

LOL I watch the putter head swing back and thru on most putts.  I developed this habit many years ago because I was trying to correct a really bad inside out move.  Sort of like Jason Dufner when he is missing short putts.  Anyway instructors say that watching the putter head swing back and through is a really bad idea but I don't really know why as it seems to work well for me.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Nels55
typo

[ThinkingPlus]

20 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

LOL I watch the putter head swing back and thru on most putts.  I developed this habit many years ago because I was trying to correct a really bad inside out move.  Sort of like Jason Dufner when he is missing short putts.  Anyway instructors say that watching the putter head swing back and through is a really bad idea but I don't really know why as it seems to work well for me.

I have done this for a long time.  Never knew it was supposed to be "bad".  I don't putt as well as I would like to, especially on short putts (ongoing project), but I lag putt pretty well.  Knowing that the putter stroke is sufficient to get the ball to/just past the hole in real time while making the stroke is an advantage.