Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[iceman1118]

8 hours ago, Obee said:

Not ideal, no.

 

I can tell you unequivocally that once I became consistent with my roll, I hit far more putts past the hole than I used to. I still leave putts short for sure everyone should) but I probably get the ball to the hole 2/3 of the time instead of 25% of the time when I thought of myself as a "die it at the hole guy."

 

And I am only talking about putts inside 20 feet. You get outside of that, it almost flip-flops and you leave more putts slightly short then you get past.

I am playing on Thursday and Friday. Plan on getting on the practice green today for a bit. I am going to attempt to rid myself of the die it at the hole approach. I am also going to blend that with using and not using the line. I think for the most part I have entered paralysis by analysis and it has really messed with me. 
 

To your point, the best putters I know rarely, if ever leave it short (when the situation calls for such a putt obviously)

[iceman1118]

What is everyone’s thoughts on shaft lean at address? Or a forward press of some kind? Either for a trigger or an actual attempt to get the ball rolling quicker?
 

I was recently playing with a buddy of mine who plays to a +2 who is easily the best putter I know. He is very methodical about his routine. Line on the ball, super long backstroke with a hammer like stroke, short follow thru, and a massive ( or what seems like a massive) forward press to start his stroke. He likes the forward press because he says 1) it is a trigger and 2) it helps getting the ball rolling faster 

 

 

[Obee]

2 hours ago, iceman1118 said:

What is everyone’s thoughts on shaft lean at address? Or a forward press of some kind? Either for a trigger or an actual attempt to get the ball rolling quicker?
 

I was recently playing with a buddy of mine who plays to a +2 who is easily the best putter I know. He is very methodical about his routine. Line on the ball, super long backstroke with a hammer like stroke, short follow thru, and a massive ( or what seems like a massive) forward press to start his stroke. He likes the forward press because he says 1) it is a trigger and 2) it helps getting the ball rolling faster 

 

 

I have gone back and forth over the years and still do. 
 

Slower greens: Forward Press

 

Faster greens: Less so

[iceman1118]

1 minute ago, Obee said:

I have gone back and forth over the years and still do. 
 

Slower greens: Forward Press

 

Faster greens: Less so

Makes sense. 

[Ty_Webb]

12 hours ago, iceman1118 said:

All of my problems are with speed. I have definitely deduced through numerous fittings and lessons on a face balanced mallet being a good fit for me. No two ways about it. I do use a line on the ball and 99 out of 100 there is no wobble on the ball, from 5 feet or 50 feet. My problem is and always will be speed. I have a die it in the hole mentality ( which could be a huge problem) but I very rarely make things easy on the greens. I am very good at leaving a 30 footer 6 feet short and blowing the 7 footer 4 feet by. 
 

I have also attempted to not use the line at all. Sometimes I think the line makes me focus way too much on line and not enough on speed. And I think that’s reversed, I think speed is way more important than line. But when I go no line, I have a huge tendency to aim right. Putter, body, etc. So it is hard to not use the line because I know I at least am aimed competently. 

 

What does your routine look like? Do you stand behind the ball and picture the ball rolling? If you do (and I would probably suggest that you do), imagine the ball rolling to the hole and then a foot past it (after going over the hole). I have issues leaving it short sometimes and I think the reason is because I view the "playing field" as being from my ball to the hole and not beyond it, then subconsciously I'm trying to keep the ball on the playing field. If you include the space past the hole in your visualization I think it can be easier to allow yourself to hit it there. That's for inside of about 20-25 feet or so. Outside that you're basically in the realm of three putt avoidance and putting it dead probably should be the goal. The better your distance control, the further away you can be before your target length should be at the hole and not past it.

[nitram]

@iceman1118 In answer to your original question, yes, putting is a different game. I know countless good/great ball strikers who are not good putters. Most can't "gear down" or transition from max effort on woods and irons to the little energy and stroke necessary to make a 6-ft. putt, and this is the primary reason most "good sticks" don't make it any further in the game than they do.

 

The way I see it after over 40 years in this game is it boils down to this: you have to learn how to roll the ball end-over-end before you can progress further. Everything else is secondary. For most, this takes getting out of your comfort zone by changing some, if not all, of your basics. You write as if you are willing to do so.

 

As far as using a line on the ball, it seems to help more than it doesn't. In my experience, once you learn how to "roll it", there are only two things to concern yourself with to make the putt: Line and Speed. Once you've read the putt and placed the line on the ball pointing at your target, or spot, all you have to do is set-up to the line on the ball and simply focus on your speed. The line on the ball eliminates half of this equation.

 

You're very fortunate in knowing someone who's a really good putter. Without seeing him play I can guarantee two things about his putting game. He has a solid Pre-Shot Routine (PSR) as it's a rare bird who's a good putter that doesn't. Secondly, he putts the same way, again and again and again . . . Pick his brain about putting every chance you get.

 

Learn to putt wobble free from 3-ft. Once you can on demand move to 5-ft. and repeat. There's plenty of time to increase distance. You have to get it right, first.

 

Last but not least, it's not an overnight thing. It takes self-discipline and patience to be a good putter. It's the easiest shot but most difficult game and/or skill in golf. It is definitely doable, but will test your resolve. This means you'll more than likely have to get out of your comfort zone. It's tough to do but with the right frame of mind, can be done.

 

Good Luck Sir, you're in the right place.

 

 

"Putting is the only part of golf where almost anyone can become as good or better than most PGA professionals." - Dave Pelz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by nitram

[iceman1118]

8 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

What does your routine look like? Do you stand behind the ball and picture the ball rolling? If you do (and I would probably suggest that you do), imagine the ball rolling to the hole and then a foot past it (after going over the hole). I have issues leaving it short sometimes and I think the reason is because I view the "playing field" as being from my ball to the hole and not beyond it, then subconsciously I'm trying to keep the ball on the playing field. If you include the space past the hole in your visualization I think it can be easier to allow yourself to hit it there. That's for inside of about 20-25 feet or so. Outside that you're basically in the realm of three putt avoidance and putting it dead probably should be the goal. The better your distance control, the further away you can be before your target length should be at the hole and not past it.

I always try to picture the line and visualize the ball going in the hole while standing behind the ball. At the same time I am picking out my intermediate point and using that as where I aim the putter face. 
 

Excellent point about the “playing field”. I always, and I mean always, stare at the hole for my distance control. I am definitely going to use this. 

[iceman1118]

@nitram great post. 
 
I am in 100% belief that putting is a different game. The good part about my putting is the end over end part is generally in a good spot. I very rarely mishit putts. In truth, no one has ever told me I put a bad roll on the ball. So I do have that going for me, which is nice. 
 

I can make an honest assessment and easily say it comes down to green reading and speed. I always and I mean always over read break. Fatal flaw in my opinion. And coupled with that, I was in the “die it in the hole” camp. I went to the putting green today with the intent of not dying it in the hole, playing less break, and putting aggressively. I can honestly say I had a much better practice session than normal today. Putts went down from all distances which was good. And by putting more aggressively I scared the hole a lot more than I normally would. So progress has been made. And I am willing to put the work in. 
 

Happy I have joined this thread. I really appreciate the help from everyone so far. Just talking about this here and getting some feedback has already changed my mindset. 

[DLiver]

New to the thread--haven't been through it all yet. But I want to add some personal observations. I've always been a good putter. All my buddies think I'm a good putter. People I've played with just once have remarked about how solid my putting is. Even when I'm putting poorly, which happens from time to time, I still think I'm a good putter.

 

Recently I went into a bit of a putting slump, and in an effort to improve my putting, I got worse. I stopped making putts I used to make routinely. In an effort to identify my weaknesses, I started tracking my strokes gained putting stats. It turned out I was a terrible putter! My putting was similar to players with 10+ handicaps! WTH--I'm a 3 index. So even though I had been through putting slumps before and always recovered, this was different. I started thinking maybe I was a sucky putter, just like the stats said. And my putting got worse. And worse. And worse.

 

So I started thinking about this whole turn of events, and my conclusion is that confidence is about the most important putting attribute you can have. And any effort to improve your putting must have a component that improves your confidence. There are a bunch of ways to do this, but IMO it definitely needs to be a part of any putting improvement program.

[mshills]

New to this thread as well. I’ve been a good, not great, putter relative to the rest of my game for my whole life. Am a former 5 index and was a little better on the greens than that (good thing since I’ve never been a very good ball striker!…)

 

Got injured, now I play with my R arm only (still not a very good ball striker, shocking, I know…) and have got the index down to 20. Putting is the only thing I can do with my L arm involved, and lo and behold I’m still a pretty good putter! A few differences, have added 4” to my putter length because my L arm no longer hangs at my side. I do struggle reading greens, cannot squat down any more to read the putt from behind so I’m learning to trust my feet. 

 

May have missed this earlier — thoughts on lie angle? I’ve gone flatter by 4 degrees, as a.) I don’t like to get too close to my work and b.) setting up with my eyes inside the target line helps keep me from missing left. 

[iceman1118]

Played at my buddy's club today. Par 71, 6600 yards. Shot 75, 2 over on the front and 2 over on the back. 34 total putts. I rolled it significantly better today overall. I had two real looks at birdie and missed both. But by changing my intent to not having the ball die in the hole, I was scaring every hole regardless of the distance. I also did not use the line on the ball today. I certainly feel like it freed me up a ton. I was able to focus way more on speed than anything else. 

 

This was progress today. Definitely a step in the right direction. Home track tomorrow. Going with the same exact mentality as I had today.

[iceman1118]

Home track on Friday. 76 with 31 putts. Same approach as the day before. Aggressive putts, not using the line on the ball. We are on to something here boys. 

[bladehunter]

On 9/14/2022 at 7:07 PM, DLiver said:

New to the thread--haven't been through it all yet. But I want to add some personal observations. I've always been a good putter. All my buddies think I'm a good putter. People I've played with just once have remarked about how solid my putting is. Even when I'm putting poorly, which happens from time to time, I still think I'm a good putter.

 

Recently I went into a bit of a putting slump, and in an effort to improve my putting, I got worse. I stopped making putts I used to make routinely. In an effort to identify my weaknesses, I started tracking my strokes gained putting stats. It turned out I was a terrible putter! My putting was similar to players with 10+ handicaps! WTH--I'm a 3 index. So even though I had been through putting slumps before and always recovered, this was different. I started thinking maybe I was a sucky putter, just like the stats said. And my putting got worse. And worse. And worse.

 

So I started thinking about this whole turn of events, and my conclusion is that confidence is about the most important putting attribute you can have. And any effort to improve your putting must have a component that improves your confidence. There are a bunch of ways to do this, but IMO it definitely needs to be a part of any putting improvement program.

Great post.  I’ve wondered if my attitude isn’t much much worse toward putting after I started keeping that same stat.  The constant “ you suck “ isn’t really confidence inspiring.  Is it ?  

[Jimi Thing]

About 4 months back I decided I wanted to be a good putter. With two main objectives to start with. I want to approach a green with a positive confident attitude “now we are on my turf”, and I wanted to start to have fun putting enjoy the game. Fake it till you make it, I proclaimed myself an excellent putter as of that day. I needed different self talk to get going on this journey.

 

Have been playing for 15 years, mainly a weekend warrior, got down to a 6 index. Not sure how my putting stats were really but always thought I wasn’t a good putter. Some due to my expectations being significantly off and some factual. The main issue, I just had no clue what I was doing, could not tell you if my stroke was off, had a bad read or my pace was just terrible. A lot of that had to do with what one of you mentioned in this thread: concentration. If anything my learning abilities on the green were simply switched off for the 15 years I have played. So each putt felt like it was the first in my life.

 

First things first, I decided to get a fitting. To get a tool that supports me rather than holds me back. It was eye opening. On a flat surface, I was holing pretty much each 10footer. Using sam puttlab I learned the reality of my stroke which was very consistent, not without fault but consistent. Face slightly open at impact, more open at address. Stuff we addressed with the putter fit. Can’t say that I’m perfect but the reality is my stroke is not holding me back as much as other parts.

 

Ended up with an odyssey tri hot 5k. Slightly heavier head, high MOI and decided to want to have my hands at the same height on the putter grip to keep the shoulders level. Use a 2 thumb grip to achieve that. My distance control has gotten significantly better with the putter.

 

2^nd I work with an online coach and he has an excellent lesson on reading the putt. He reads for SPEED rather than line and boy has that helped a lot with distance control. Reading for speed is done not behind the ball or the hole but sideways on the putt. Distance control has gotten better, but being low side of the line I also get a better feel for the severity of the break. I combine this with walking each putt, registering the distance, the severity and direction of slope. When speed is better I experience now what is mentioned here often, it becomes easier to aim as well.

 

I use a line on my ball for lining up. It is a useful tool for me to not just line up the ball but more importantly get into a consistent square set up. From there on I don’t care about the line really any more.

 

Started the use of shot scope and have about 100 holes in. Some preliminary stats:

Average 31 putts / round

Miss 41% short, 51% long (not sure by how much)

Make % 0-1m: 97% (-1% compared to 0hcp)

1-2m 62% (-10% compared to 0hcp)

2-3m 20% (-26% compared to 0hcp)

3-4m 44% (+ 17% compared to 0hcp)

 

My 1-3 meter putts 3-10ft is where I am losing significant amount of shots. Strokes gained -1.18 in 0-10ft, 10-24 ft +0.24, >27ft – 0.19

 

Average amount of putts made is 65ft.

 

There is no denying with the stats, but it is what I am experiencing on the greens as well. 0-10 ft is where the confidence is lowest. Main challenge, dare to let the putt go, dare to miss it to be able to make it. Not looking at the putt is key in this for me. Positive self talk and concentration are key for me. It is so easy to get in the habit of mixing up cause and effect. Allowing positive self talk if I’m putting well rather than the other way around.

 

Also, bringing up the REAL concentration when it matters is a challenge as well. I still have occasions where, although I have done my read drill I ram a 15ft putt 6ft by because in my read it is uphill where in reality, looking at it from a different angle I see it is actually downhill. Not just going through the motions but registering what I experience, translate it into motion regardless of playing partners, pace of play, score or whatever what goes remains a challenge at times.

 

On those short putts (<10ft), man do I find it hard to commit to a line and a pace, a definite read. I have started to practice on the 4ftrs, with the initial ambition to learn more than anything. In my home office I make the vast majority of my short putts, significantly better than my on course stats. So for now I am concluding that I don’t have major issues hitting it on the line. When using the straight line drill I hit most putts without a wobble or a very slight wobble. When it comes to learning, my first focus is on getting more conscious on the speed of a 4ftr. Started practice with that today. But I realize I die some in and hit some 3-4ft by.

 

Biggest win, enjoying my putting journey, and experience that I walk on greens with confidence. Still a significant amount of room for improvement, but the joy is there. On the journey to better putting.

 

Thank you Obee for putting up this thread, thanks all others for the humble and honest contributions.

[Obee]

3 minutes ago, Jimi Thing said:

About 4 months back I decided I wanted to be a good putter. With two main objectives to start with. I want to approach a green with a positive confident attitude “now we are on my turf”, and I wanted to start to have fun putting enjoy the game. Fake it till you make it, I proclaimed myself an excellent putter as of that day. I needed different self talk to get going on this journey.

 

Have been playing for 15 years, mainly a weekend warrior, got down to a 6 index. Not sure how my putting stats were really but always thought I wasn’t a good putter. Some due to my expectations being significantly off and some factual. The main issue, I just had no clue what I was doing, could not tell you if my stroke was off, had a bad read or my pace was just terrible. A lot of that had to do with what one of you mentioned in this thread: concentration. If anything my learning abilities on the green were simply switched off for the 15 years I have played. So each putt felt like it was the first in my life.

 

First things first, I decided to get a fitting. To get a tool that supports me rather than holds me back. It was eye opening. On a flat surface, I was holing pretty much each 10footer. Using sam puttlab I learned the reality of my stroke which was very consistent, not without fault but consistent. Face slightly open at impact, more open at address. Stuff we addressed with the putter fit. Can’t say that I’m perfect but the reality is my stroke is not holding me back as much as other parts.

 

Ended up with an odyssey tri hot 5k. Slightly heavier head, high MOI and decided to want to have my hands at the same height on the putter grip to keep the shoulders level. Use a 2 thumb grip to achieve that. My distance control has gotten significantly better with the putter.

 

2^nd I work with an online coach and he has an excellent lesson on reading the putt. He reads for SPEED rather than line and boy has that helped a lot with distance control. Reading for speed is done not behind the ball or the hole but sideways on the putt. Distance control has gotten better, but being low side of the line I also get a better feel for the severity of the break. I combine this with walking each putt, registering the distance, the severity and direction of slope. When speed is better I experience now what is mentioned here often, it becomes easier to aim as well.

 

I use a line on my ball for lining up. It is a useful tool for me to not just line up the ball but more importantly get into a consistent square set up. From there on I don’t care about the line really any more.

 

Started the use of shot scope and have about 100 holes in. Some preliminary stats:

Average 31 putts / round

Miss 41% short, 51% long (not sure by how much)

Make % 0-1m: 97% (-1% compared to 0hcp)

1-2m 62% (-10% compared to 0hcp)

2-3m 20% (-26% compared to 0hcp)

3-4m 44% (+ 17% compared to 0hcp)

 

My 1-3 meter putts 3-10ft is where I am losing significant amount of shots. Strokes gained -1.18 in 0-10ft, 10-24 ft +0.24, >27ft – 0.19

 

Average amount of putts made is 65ft.

 

There is no denying with the stats, but it is what I am experiencing on the greens as well. 0-10 ft is where the confidence is lowest. Main challenge, dare to let the putt go, dare to miss it to be able to make it. Not looking at the putt is key in this for me. Positive self talk and concentration are key for me. It is so easy to get in the habit of mixing up cause and effect. Allowing positive self talk if I’m putting well rather than the other way around.

 

Also, bringing up the REAL concentration when it matters is a challenge as well. I still have occasions where, although I have done my read drill I ram a 15ft putt 6ft by because in my read it is uphill where in reality, looking at it from a different angle I see it is actually downhill. Not just going through the motions but registering what I experience, translate it into motion regardless of playing partners, pace of play, score or whatever what goes remains a challenge at times.

 

On those short putts (<10ft), man do I find it hard to commit to a line and a pace, a definite read. I have started to practice on the 4ftrs, with the initial ambition to learn more than anything. In my home office I make the vast majority of my short putts, significantly better than my on course stats. So for now I am concluding that I don’t have major issues hitting it on the line. When using the straight line drill I hit most putts without a wobble or a very slight wobble. When it comes to learning, my first focus is on getting more conscious on the speed of a 4ftr. Started practice with that today. But I realize I die some in and hit some 3-4ft by.

 

Biggest win, enjoying my putting journey, and experience that I walk on greens with confidence. Still a significant amount of room for improvement, but the joy is there. On the journey to better putting.

 

Thank you Obee for putting up this thread, thanks all others for the humble and honest contributions.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to write that. Good stuff, and I'm sure you'll continue to improve!

[Jimi Thing]

@Obee, whenever you are in Portugal, please feel free to come and join me for a round of golf:)

[Jimi Thing]

A question that I have that I hope this putting community can help with. I struggle with determining the proper amount of break to play for, especially on putts under 10ft. I realize that in most cases I don't have clarity on where the exact 6-12 o'clock line through the hole is for a straight uphill / downhill putt. I don't conciously determine it. Therefore my reads are of the accuracy it is breaking right to left. rather than I am at 2 o'clock and know it will break accordingly. 

 

How do you go about determining this when you are playing. I have seen vids with people walking around the hole in a circle registering whether they are going uphill / downhill. But how far out from the hole do you do this, and how do you include this in your routine when you have 3 playing partners, lines going to the hole etc that you don't want to interfere with. 

 

Curious if anyone has a solid, somewhat fast approach for this. 

 

Thanks!

 

[Obee]

2 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

A question that I have that I hope this putting community can help with. I struggle with determining the proper amount of break to play for, especially on putts under 10ft. I realize that in most cases I don't have clarity on where the exact 6-12 o'clock line through the hole is for a straight uphill / downhill putt. I don't conciously determine it. Therefore my reads are of the accuracy it is breaking right to left. rather than I am at 2 o'clock and know it will break accordingly. 

 

How do you go about determining this when you are playing. I have seen vids with people walking around the hole in a circle registering whether they are going uphill / downhill. But how far out from the hole do you do this, and how do you include this in your routine when you have 3 playing partners, lines going to the hole etc that you don't want to interfere with. 

 

Curious if anyone has a solid, somewhat fast approach for this. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

A great thing to do is to go find a straight, slightly uphill putt on your practice green and then just work right to left across the slope until you "get" what it feels like. Depending on green speeds, 1 pace right of the fall line might be inside the hole and firm, or it might be a whole ball or two outside the hole. Just experiment and see. And you can do this on any practice green and I recommend doing it everywhere you play prior to teeing off.

[Jimi Thing]

33 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

A great thing to do is to go find a straight, slightly uphill putt on your practice green and then just work right to left across the slope until you "get" what it feels like. Depending on green speeds, 1 pace right of the fall line might be inside the hole and firm, or it might be a whole ball or two outside the hole. Just experiment and see. And you can do this on any practice green and I recommend doing it everywhere you play prior to teeing off.

And when in a round, do you pay specific attention to determining the fall line for each hole and take that information as part of your reading process?

[Obee]

3 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

And when in a round, do you pay specific attention to determining the fall line for each hole and take that information as part of your reading process?

 

Not necessarily. It's more something that I just have come to understand. I more use my feet to feel the break and have become quite adept at that.

[nitram]

@Jimi Thing: Another good "teacher" of what you're searching for is to get to a green while the dew is still present. Read the green and go through your normal routine. After stroking the putt, watch the track of your ball and notice where it begins to curve and by how much.

Edited September 20, 2022 by nitram

[Ross_Albatross]

22 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

About 4 months back I decided I wanted to be a good putter. With two main objectives to start with. I want to approach a green with a positive confident attitude “now we are on my turf”, and I wanted to start to have fun putting enjoy the game. Fake it till you make it, I proclaimed myself an excellent putter as of that day. I needed different self talk to get going on this journey.

 

Have been playing for 15 years, mainly a weekend warrior, got down to a 6 index. Not sure how my putting stats were really but always thought I wasn’t a good putter. Some due to my expectations being significantly off and some factual. The main issue, I just had no clue what I was doing, could not tell you if my stroke was off, had a bad read or my pace was just terrible. A lot of that had to do with what one of you mentioned in this thread: concentration. If anything my learning abilities on the green were simply switched off for the 15 years I have played. So each putt felt like it was the first in my life.

 

First things first, I decided to get a fitting. To get a tool that supports me rather than holds me back. It was eye opening. On a flat surface, I was holing pretty much each 10footer. Using sam puttlab I learned the reality of my stroke which was very consistent, not without fault but consistent. Face slightly open at impact, more open at address. Stuff we addressed with the putter fit. Can’t say that I’m perfect but the reality is my stroke is not holding me back as much as other parts.

 

Ended up with an odyssey tri hot 5k. Slightly heavier head, high MOI and decided to want to have my hands at the same height on the putter grip to keep the shoulders level. Use a 2 thumb grip to achieve that. My distance control has gotten significantly better with the putter.

 

2^nd I work with an online coach and he has an excellent lesson on reading the putt. He reads for SPEED rather than line and boy has that helped a lot with distance control. Reading for speed is done not behind the ball or the hole but sideways on the putt. Distance control has gotten better, but being low side of the line I also get a better feel for the severity of the break. I combine this with walking each putt, registering the distance, the severity and direction of slope. When speed is better I experience now what is mentioned here often, it becomes easier to aim as well.

 

I use a line on my ball for lining up. It is a useful tool for me to not just line up the ball but more importantly get into a consistent square set up. From there on I don’t care about the line really any more.

 

Started the use of shot scope and have about 100 holes in. Some preliminary stats:

Average 31 putts / round

Miss 41% short, 51% long (not sure by how much)

Make % 0-1m: 97% (-1% compared to 0hcp)

1-2m 62% (-10% compared to 0hcp)

2-3m 20% (-26% compared to 0hcp)

3-4m 44% (+ 17% compared to 0hcp)

 

My 1-3 meter putts 3-10ft is where I am losing significant amount of shots. Strokes gained -1.18 in 0-10ft, 10-24 ft +0.24, >27ft – 0.19

 

Average amount of putts made is 65ft.

 

There is no denying with the stats, but it is what I am experiencing on the greens as well. 0-10 ft is where the confidence is lowest. Main challenge, dare to let the putt go, dare to miss it to be able to make it. Not looking at the putt is key in this for me. Positive self talk and concentration are key for me. It is so easy to get in the habit of mixing up cause and effect. Allowing positive self talk if I’m putting well rather than the other way around.

 

Also, bringing up the REAL concentration when it matters is a challenge as well. I still have occasions where, although I have done my read drill I ram a 15ft putt 6ft by because in my read it is uphill where in reality, looking at it from a different angle I see it is actually downhill. Not just going through the motions but registering what I experience, translate it into motion regardless of playing partners, pace of play, score or whatever what goes remains a challenge at times.

 

On those short putts (<10ft), man do I find it hard to commit to a line and a pace, a definite read. I have started to practice on the 4ftrs, with the initial ambition to learn more than anything. In my home office I make the vast majority of my short putts, significantly better than my on course stats. So for now I am concluding that I don’t have major issues hitting it on the line. When using the straight line drill I hit most putts without a wobble or a very slight wobble. When it comes to learning, my first focus is on getting more conscious on the speed of a 4ftr. Started practice with that today. But I realize I die some in and hit some 3-4ft by.

 

Biggest win, enjoying my putting journey, and experience that I walk on greens with confidence. Still a significant amount of room for improvement, but the joy is there. On the journey to better putting.

 

Thank you Obee for putting up this thread, thanks all others for the humble and honest contributions.

Excellent write up - and this match my game to a certain extent... 31.6 putts, 56 feet made on average, SG to scratch -0.36/round... awesome part, reading for speed from the low side...

 

Once you know your aim is fine and that you can roll the rock end over end with a quick true roll - my only suggestion for confidence with short-ish / medium range putts is to try 'to flip it around'... meaning that, why being fearful when you know you only lose about 1 stroke to scratch guys per round! that isn't bad at all... trying to flip it because we expect to make the putt and fear the consequence of missing it (Jesus christ I made 17 in a row last time I practiced from that distance!); think Cam Smith - once you commit to your speed/line, all you can do it make a good stroke, and nothing else, so make sure you do it... pretty sure we muff more of these because we yip them and make a bad stroke (pulling them, babying them, you name it) rather than a bad read from 4 feet out

[Jimi Thing]

31 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Excellent write up - and this match my game to a certain extent... 31.6 putts, 56 feet made on average, SG to scratch -0.36/round... awesome part, reading for speed from the low side...

 

Once you know your aim is fine and that you can roll the rock end over end with a quick true roll - my only suggestion for confidence with short-ish / medium range putts is to try 'to flip it around'... meaning that, why being fearful when you know you only lose about 1 stroke to scratch guys per round! that isn't bad at all... trying to flip it because we expect to make the putt and fear the consequence of missing it (Jesus christ I made 17 in a row last time I practiced from that distance!); think Cam Smith - once you commit to your speed/line, all you can do it make a good stroke, and nothing else, so make sure you do it... pretty sure we muff more of these because we yip them and make a bad stroke (pulling them, babying them, you name it) rather than a bad read from 4 feet out

I’m not quite there yet, I’m the sense that I feel I only now am starting to learn to really read putts knowing I’m hitting the ball on the line I want fairly consistently. More consciousness on speed for shorter putts is next. Then my learning on aim can really start. 
 

it is funny, although I play for 15 years now, I feel like a green one when it comes to putting. Eye opener after eye opener learning a lot recently. 
 

I really like how you come to flipping it around, makes so much sense. Stats aren’t awful indeed except short putts. Tentativenesses there provides me these results, flip it around and see what that brings. 
 

I realise now that it means getting more aggressive (make speed) on shorter putts. Where I have an unconscious mental concept that shorter putts require more babying. Time to rewrite this concept. Like I said, learning and feeling like a newby. But liking the journey a lot. 
 

thanks, and the dew advice is really helpful!

[Ty_Webb]

The dew advice is great. The important thing about learning how to read the greens is getting feedback. Whatever method you use, you want to read the putt, figure out what line you want to start it on and then verify. It's expensive, but a perfect putter is a great tool for learning to read the greens. You read a putt, then put the perfect putter down where you think you want to start it, roll the ball down and see where it went. Then recalibrate. The more you do it, the more you'll improve on your initial read.

 

Hard part about learning to read a green is let's say you have a 10 foot putt and you read it 3 inches right of the hole, then you hit the putt and it misses left - maybe you read it wrong, but maybe you read it right and pulled it, or maybe you read it right and started it on line, but it got a funky bounce along the way or you underhit it and it broke more. Really hard to separate out the read from the execution. The dew can help you with that, but it's hard to find the right time for it and the water on the ground impacts the amount that the putt will turn too. Much better than nothing though.

 

As far as the perfect putter goes, you could probably fashion something from a couple of bits of wood that do something similar for very little. The great thing about the perfect putter is you can stand it up and it won't move and it puts a perfect roll on it every time. 

[bladehunter]

On 9/18/2022 at 11:13 PM, bladehunter said:

Great post.  I’ve wondered if my attitude isn’t much much worse toward putting after I started keeping that same stat.  The constant “ you suck “ isn’t really confidence inspiring.  Is it ?  

Thought about this post of mine and came back to say.  Someone wise reminded me recently that the “ you suck “ strokes gained putting stat that I loathe , has to be taken into context.  And that context is the peer group for the event you’re playing against.  Not the pga tour stats it’s based off of. 
 

 

for instance. Losing 3 shots a round according to strokes gained might not be as bad as it looks if the leader you are  chasing is -1.5 or -2 strokes gained putting himself.   So consider the conditions and misses or quality of rolls  too.  ( sorry. Random thought I wanted to correct myself on ). 

Edited September 21, 2022 by bladehunter

[Ty_Webb]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Thought about this post of mine and came back to say.  Someone wise reminded me recently that the “ you suck “ strokes gained putting stat that I loathe , has to be taken into context.  And that context is the peer group for the event you’re playing against.  Not the pga tour stats it’s based off of. 
 

 

for instance. Losing 3 shots a round according to strokes gained might not be as bad as it looks if the leader you are  chasing is -1.5 or -2 strokes gained putting himself.   So consider the conditions and misses or quality of rolls  too.  ( sorry. Random thought I wanted to correct myself on ). 

 

I might go even further and say that what really matters is your strokes gained against yourself. If you're losing 3 shots a round and you usually lose 3.5 or 4 then go you! If you're competing with others your game will have different strengths and weaknesses than theirs, so if you do better than normal against yourself, then that puts you in good stead for your matches. 

 

Comparing your stats against your peers is very useful for seeing where the "low-hanging fruit" is. 

[_chs_]

Huge fan of this thread- I have read the whole thing twice and my putting has improved SO much since I started using the claw and practicing 3 footers but I am not making 6 to 10 to 12 foot putts. I burn the edge and I’m left with a lot of tap-in pars.  

 

My assumption is the ball is not rolling true and it goes further off line as my putts get longer. I have seen a significant improvement in my putting from last year but I want to get better.

 

As silly as it sounds I don’t aim the line at the target because my stiff knees don’t let me get close enough to the ground to see if the line is pointing in the exact location. I also don’t always trust the way I align the line.

 

Tonight I spend some time at the practice green trying to see if I was rolling it end over end.  The results were really disappointing and most of my putts wobbled with the line on “right side of center”. I can’t get the ball to roll end over end. It wobbles every time and I’m not sure how to fix it.

 

So, I am hopeful someone might give me a refresher on how to fix a ball that is not rolling end over end. 

 

For a right handed putted, what causes the line to wobble to the right? What causes it to wobble to the left? And how does one correct the impact, the path or Angle of attack to get the ball to roll end over end? Is the answer as simple as doing the gate drill? 

 

I know the answer is in the here somewhere but hopefully someone can bring it to the surface. 

 

Thank you in advance,

 

chs

 

 

[Ross_Albatross]

8 hours ago, _chs_ said:

Huge fan of this thread- I have read the whole thing twice and my putting has improved SO much since I started using the claw and practicing 3 footers but I am not making 6 to 10 to 12 foot putts. I burn the edge and I’m left with a lot of tap-in pars.  

 

My assumption is the ball is not rolling true and it goes further off line as my putts get longer. I have seen a significant improvement in my putting from last year but I want to get better.

 

As silly as it sounds I don’t aim the line at the target because my stiff knees don’t let me get close enough to the ground to see if the line is pointing in the exact location. I also don’t always trust the way I align the line.

 

Tonight I spend some time at the practice green trying to see if I was rolling it end over end.  The results were really disappointing and most of my putts wobbled with the line on “right side of center”. I can’t get the ball to roll end over end. It wobbles every time and I’m not sure how to fix it.

 

So, I am hopeful someone might give me a refresher on how to fix a ball that is not rolling end over end. 

 

For a right handed putted, what causes the line to wobble to the right? What causes it to wobble to the left? And how does one correct the impact, the path or Angle of attack to get the ball to roll end over end? Is the answer as simple as doing the gate drill? 

 

I know the answer is in the here somewhere but hopefully someone can bring it to the surface. 

 

Thank you in advance,

 

chs

 

 

Not an expert so take it for what it’s worth… but start line is a product of face at impact (open / close) that results from your path coming in… while the wobbling is more of an effect of missing the sweet spot and/or a bad angle of attack (maybe hitting down on it that causes it to dip into the ground and bounce off with more ‘backspin’ than optimal; longer skid; longer before a true roll)… maybe experiment with intent to ‘hit up on it’ / looks at different loft angles / name it…

[Ty_Webb]

9 hours ago, _chs_ said:

Huge fan of this thread- I have read the whole thing twice and my putting has improved SO much since I started using the claw and practicing 3 footers but I am not making 6 to 10 to 12 foot putts. I burn the edge and I’m left with a lot of tap-in pars.  

 

My assumption is the ball is not rolling true and it goes further off line as my putts get longer. I have seen a significant improvement in my putting from last year but I want to get better.

 

As silly as it sounds I don’t aim the line at the target because my stiff knees don’t let me get close enough to the ground to see if the line is pointing in the exact location. I also don’t always trust the way I align the line.

 

Tonight I spend some time at the practice green trying to see if I was rolling it end over end.  The results were really disappointing and most of my putts wobbled with the line on “right side of center”. I can’t get the ball to roll end over end. It wobbles every time and I’m not sure how to fix it.

 

So, I am hopeful someone might give me a refresher on how to fix a ball that is not rolling end over end. 

 

For a right handed putted, what causes the line to wobble to the right? What causes it to wobble to the left? And how does one correct the impact, the path or Angle of attack to get the ball to roll end over end? Is the answer as simple as doing the gate drill? 

 

I know the answer is in the here somewhere but hopefully someone can bring it to the surface. 

 

Thank you in advance,

 

chs

 

 

 

If your path and clubface are both square at impact, then it won't wobble. If it's wobbling that means path and clubface aren't square. Couple of preliminary thoughts:

 

on the 6 to 10 to 12 footers that you're missing, are you consistently missing one side over the other (consider both left/right and high/low)? How far past are they rolling? The longer putts get the more the start line being off will affect it and the more any imperfections in the greens will move the ball offline. 

 

To figure out why it's not rolling end over end, you could take your phone and prop it up between a couple of boxes of balls, aim it down the line of the putt you're hitting and then film a couple of putts. You should be able to see your path then. If the ball starts right of your path then the face is open (assuming righty) and if it starts left then you're closed. If your path is going left, then one thing that helps me in that situation is try setting up with the putter a little inside the ball (so the line on your putter is pointing about a quarter of an inch towards the inside of the ball, then try to hit it square in the middle. I think out to in is also the issue that Obee used to have, so you could look back to how he fixed it. If your path is to the right then flip them around and do the opposite. 

 

The other thing that I find helpful with path issues is a Visio Mi putting template. If you track back your putter with your eyes, you'll be able to see if you're looping it inside or out at some point. 

[D0ch0l1d4y]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

If your path and clubface are both square at impact, then it won't wobble. If it's wobbling that means path and clubface aren't square. Couple of preliminary thoughts:

 

on the 6 to 10 to 12 footers that you're missing, are you consistently missing one side over the other (consider both left/right and high/low)? How far past are they rolling? The longer putts get the more the start line being off will affect it and the more any imperfections in the greens will move the ball offline. 

 

To figure out why it's not rolling end over end, you could take your phone and prop it up between a couple of boxes of balls, aim it down the line of the putt you're hitting and then film a couple of putts. You should be able to see your path then. If the ball starts right of your path then the face is open (assuming righty) and if it starts left then you're closed. If your path is going left, then one thing that helps me in that situation is try setting up with the putter a little inside the ball (so the line on your putter is pointing about a quarter of an inch towards the inside of the ball, then try to hit it square in the middle. I think out to in is also the issue that Obee used to have, so you could look back to how he fixed it. If your path is to the right then flip them around and do the opposite. 

 

The other thing that I find helpful with path issues is a Visio Mi putting template. If you track back your putter with your eyes, you'll be able to see if you're looping it inside or out at some point. 

 

Putting a ball down a yardstick will ferret out the culprit pretty quickly. If it wobbles but stays on the yardstick (at least most of the way), you're putting a cut stroke on it but the face is square to path.

 

If it jumps off the yardstick right away - face isn't square.