Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[Ty_Webb]

26 minutes ago, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

Putting a ball down a yardstick will ferret out the culprit pretty quickly. If it wobbles but stays on the yardstick (at least most of the way), you're putting a cut stroke on it but the face is square to path.

 

If it jumps off the yardstick right away - face isn't square. 

Square to path or square to target? I think launch direction is about 85% face and 15% path, so to launch a 3% out to in cut stroke straight, you need about a 0.5% open clubface (don't ask me how I know this)

[_chs_]

4 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

If your path and clubface are both square at impact, then it won't wobble. If it's wobbling that means path and clubface aren't square. Couple of preliminary thoughts:

 

on the 6 to 10 to 12 footers that you're missing, are you consistently missing one side over the other (consider both left/right and high/low)? How far past are they rolling? The longer putts get the more the start line being off will affect it and the more any imperfections in the greens will move the ball offline. 

 

To figure out why it's not rolling end over end, you could take your phone and prop it up between a couple of boxes of balls, aim it down the line of the putt you're hitting and then film a couple of putts. You should be able to see your path then. If the ball starts right of your path then the face is open (assuming righty) and if it starts left then you're closed. If your path is going left, then one thing that helps me in that situation is try setting up with the putter a little inside the ball (so the line on your putter is pointing about a quarter of an inch towards the inside of the ball, then try to hit it square in the middle. I think out to in is also the issue that Obee used to have, so you could look back to how he fixed it. If your path is to the right then flip them around and do the opposite. 

 

The other thing that I find helpful with path issues is a Visio Mi putting template. If you track back your putter with your eyes, you'll be able to see if you're looping it inside or out at some point. 

Short and to the right are my misses. Rarely to I miss long.  I just filmed myself and saw the path was not perfect - on the follow through I went "out".  I experimented by moving further away from the ball and this helped!  I look forward to getting back to the practice green and filming there instead of at home on the carpet. 

 

Thank you!

[_chs_]

3 hours ago, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

Putting a ball down a yardstick will ferret out the culprit pretty quickly. If it wobbles but stays on the yardstick (at least most of the way), you're putting a cut stroke on it but the face is square to path.

 

If it jumps off the yardstick right away - face isn't square. 

I tried this and it stayed on the yardstick --- thanks!

[D0ch0l1d4y]

Just now, _chs_ said:

I tried this and it stayed on the yardstick --- thanks!

 

I think @Obee significantly closed his stance to help with the out-to-in. Might start out pushing some putts but I'd bet the wobble gets a lot less.

[Obee]

2 hours ago, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

I think @Obee significantly closed his stance to help with the out-to-in. Might start out pushing some putts but I'd bet the wobble gets a lot less.

 

That is correct. I pull my right foot back significantly. Instant improvement.

[Obee]

On 3/27/2021 at 4:48 PM, getitdaily said:

@Obee assessed my putting after the first tournament round 3 weeks ago. Missed 6 putts because of speed or read. Made that my focus the last 3 weeks. Last 2 rounds under 29 putts both rounds. 73-69. I just wasn't aggressive enough and was lazy with reads. Good thing is I'm now over reading putts. Missing on the high side. I see something special brewing...

 

Re-reading some old stuff here: "Lazy with my reads" Wow is that a subject to be delved into, right?

[getitdaily]

9 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

Re-reading some old stuff here: "Lazy with my reads" Wow is that a subject to be delved into, right?

I think I've fallen back into poor speed control...or, more specifically, not taking break out and putting more aggressively. 

[_chs_]

Just got back from a great session on the practice green. My slight stance adjustment made it achievable to roll it end over end.  I am excited to put it to use on the course. I will report back.

 

lesson here for me here: I didn’t put any effort in the most important component which was getting the ball to roll end over end because I couldn’t figure it out.  I am now going to be practicing the 3 footers with a line for immediate feedback.  Thanks everyone!. Can I rewind to the beginning of summer. I am such a dope! 

[Ty_Webb]

22 minutes ago, _chs_ said:

Just got back from a great session on the practice green. My slight stance adjustment made it achievable to roll it end over end.  I am excited to put it to use on the course. I will report back.

 

lesson here for me here: I didn’t put any effort in the most important component which was getting the ball to roll end over end because I couldn’t figure it out.  I am now going to be practicing the 3 footers with a line for immediate feedback.  Thanks everyone!. Can I rewind to the beginning of summer. I am such a dope! 

So one thing to watch out for - if you've been playing a long time, you've likely picked up some habits along the way to do with how you putt. If you normally cut across it with a slightly open face, you'll be inclined to aim it expecting that to happen and you'll also have a speed goal in your head with that in mind. Absent any other changes, if you suddenly start getting your path right and face square, you'll hit it further and more flush, which, given bad habits learned in other ways, could make you miss putts more than you make. It's very important to stick with it through the learning process. You may find you get worse before you get better. Hopefully not, but you might. Stick with it and keep track of how the ball is rolling. 

[Obee]

11 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

So one thing to watch out for - if you've been playing a long time, you've likely picked up some habits along the way to do with how you putt. If you normally cut across it with a slightly open face, you'll be inclined to aim it expecting that to happen and you'll also have a speed goal in your head with that in mind. Absent any other changes, if you suddenly start getting your path right and face square, you'll hit it further and more flush, which, given bad habits learned in other ways, could make you miss putts more than you make. It's very important to stick with it through the learning process. You may find you get worse before you get better. Hopefully not, but you might. Stick with it and keep track of how the ball is rolling. 

Perfectly said, and mirrors what I laid out back when I was going through the process of learning to roll the ball and over end.

[mshills]

15 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 Stick with it and keep track of how the ball is rolling. 

 

Great point.  I've always been a player who overall, found a way to get it in the hole one way or another, but real improvement in putting requires a broader perspective.

 

There are so many reasons why a putt may or may not find the jar.  If that's the outcome we are focused on, we may get better at the wrong things or not get better at all.  Focus on and tracking how the ball is rolling is much better, even if you get worse at first.  A great putter puts a clean roll on the ball, and putts will drop eventually.

[me05501]

22 hours ago, Obee said:

 

Re-reading some old stuff here: "Lazy with my reads" Wow is that a subject to be delved into, right?

 

Let's do it!

 

I find myself falling into this trap all the time when I'm outside 8-10'.

 

Inside that range I'm reading and aiming putts to hole them. Outside that range, my reads are a lot more cursory and vague. 

 

I'm a lifelong lag putter. I leave a lot of long putts 2-4' short of the hole. My version of putting improvement this year has involved learning to make those short ones with great consistency. At the same time I'd be far better off if I left my long putts 2-4' BEYOND the hole instead. Never up, never in. 

 

At what range does it make sense to putt to make the putt rather than putting to make the next putt? Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a "lag it" mentality to a "let's make it!" mentality? 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by me05501

[wagolfer7]

3 minutes ago, me05501 said:

At what range does it make sense to putt to make the putt rather than putting to make the next putt? Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a "lag it" mentality to a "let's make it!" mentality? 

 

 

 

I never understood this.  I line up every putt to drop in the hole.  Some lines I pick are the max break line where the ball is to die into the cup.  These obviously have a higher % chance of missing the hole or being left short.  However - I'm still picking a line and speed that if executed correctly and read correctly will drop in the hole. 

 

I imagine everyone does this.  Why would you pick a spot 2-4 feet from the hole to leave it at? 

 

A long down hill putt, where you don't want to roll forever by it.  Pick the highest line possible and try to die it in.  Your protecting from the 3 putt, but you are still on a line with the correct speed that it drops. 

 

Expectations of actually making the put will change based off the distance.  But trying to avoid 3 putt in my opinion is more about setting a line and speed that won't leave you with a long putt, but if executed correctly will still result in a made putt.        

[Ross_Albatross]

23 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Let's do it!

 

I find myself falling into this trap all the time when I'm outside 8-10'.

 

Inside that range I'm reading and aiming putts to hole them. Outside that range, my reads are a lot more cursory and vague. 

 

I'm a lifelong lag putter. I leave a lot of long putts 2-4' short of the hole. My version of putting improvement this year has involved learning to make those short ones with great consistency. At the same time I'd be far better off if I left my long putts 2-4' BEYOND the hole instead. Never up, never in. 

 

At what range does it make sense to putt to make the putt rather than putting to make the next putt? Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a "lag it" mentality to a "let's make it!" mentality? 

 

 

PGA Tour average - leave distance per putt length 

[me05501]

25 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

I never understood this.  I line up every putt to drop in the hole.  Some lines I pick are the max break line where the ball is to die into the cup.  These obviously have a higher % chance of missing the hole or being left short.  However - I'm still picking a line and speed that if executed correctly and read correctly will drop in the hole. 

 

I imagine everyone does this.  Why would you pick a spot 2-4 feet from the hole to leave it at? 

 

A long down hill putt, where you don't want to roll forever by it.  Pick the highest line possible and try to die it in.  Your protecting from the 3 putt, but you are still on a line with the correct speed that it drops. 

 

Expectations of actually making the put will change based off the distance.  But trying to avoid 3 putt in my opinion is more about setting a line and speed that won't leave you with a long putt, but if executed correctly will still result in a made putt.        

 

You're right, of course. 

 

Honestly I think I'm just not as focused on long putts as I should be. It seems like I'm in the habit of collecting more general information than specific information.

 

I always look at them from both sides. I read whether it's uphill or down and try to get a general feel for how much the putt will break and in which direction. This is what I meant by doing vague reads. But for whatever reason I stop short of choosing a specific target.

 

I recently started taking a more aggressive attitude into my chipping game. I used to treat chips the same way as long putts, thinking "just get it anywhere up there near the hole." Now I think about holing them out. It's amazing how much that slight change of approach has helped me get the ball much closer to the hole. 

 

I need to start stalking my long putts the same way. 

[wagolfer7]

11 minutes ago, me05501 said:

But for whatever reason I stop short of choosing a specific target.

 

That alone might change up your putting mentality.  I always have a target marked on the green that I'm trying to hit.  If it's an uphill putt, it's a mark that is beyond the cup.  If it's a downhill putt, it's a mark before the cup.  My brain computes all putts as level putts.  I then add or decrease distance depending on the grade of the slope and pick that as my target.  

 

I use the line on the ball to setup my line.  Once I'm addressed to the putt - I'm only looking at that target I've marked for distance.  It's all about distance after I setup. 

 

This really helped me with distance control and really helped me with touchy 4-8 foot downhill sliders.    

[nitram]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

At what range does it make sense to putt to make the putt rather than putting to make the next putt? Has anyone here successfully transitioned from a "lag it" mentality to a "let's make it!" mentality?

Citing Aimpoint Express it's 20 feet. While I strive to make the one or two birdie putts per round that are further 😂, 20 feet seems to be the agreed distance to go for it.

[ewaldbeukes]

Found this thread earlier this week with a redirect from Obee commenting on another.

 

First off, thank you to all that commented - I read all 25 pages of the thread and there is some wonderful nuggets in here as well as evidence of just how painful putting can be! 

 

@Obee I hope the back is better - I have a L4, L5 herniation and really related to your story about men not knowing about this despite many of us suffering! I can go from shooting 75 to 90 depending on if the back locks up... its hard! Hope you got some relief

 

Some take-outs for me from this thread that I really loved and am working on /is working for me)

 

1. Roll the ball properly (end over end) with a line 

 

I find that it doesnt matter HOW you do this ie setup, stroke, grip, putter - you just need to be able to repeat. I went back to conventional hands, a shorter putter, index finger down the shaft and using the body triangle as Obee discussed and its yielding a better roll. Freaked me out as I needed to re-learn how to aim AFTER making the change as I used to aim right and pull it. So changing stroke may change your aim. 

 

2. 4ft Drill for speed and calibration

 

Our home clubs greens are fairly speedy and need to get this calibration down. Also the circle drill from 4ft is a nice one to try in addition (this has been mentioned here too)

 

3. Practice chipping to 6ft

 

Often we think our putting sucks but when your short game is poor, it puts loads of pressure on the putter. It was only when my SG was <par around the green that I really noticed how many I was missing on the greens. 

 

4. Aimpoint Express

 

I was not the best at greens reading but my club had a book so bought one and that combined with AE was a great help. I try to not use is from 10ft and in as I putt better on feel inside 10ft but each to their own. 

 

My goal is to get my putts to consistent 29 per round which should help me get my scoring back to level par or under!

 

Thought this might be helpful and didnt find it in the thread so please correct me if someone has posted. For getting some practice in at home or at the course a simple and cheap training aid for me is a 1m(3ft) steel ruler (see attached pic) Its thin and has a hole in the top. Pop the ball in the hole with the line directly down the ruler and practice hitting putts. If the ball stays on the ruler your doing well and face is square, if the ball rolls end over end as well your in the money. Very inexpensive and you can do it on any floor type at home or in the office. I find its chalk and cheese me confidence on 3-5ft putts if I have or have not putted on it the week before playing.

 

Thanks again everyone for the inputs! Good luck out there

Edited October 5, 2022 by ewaldbeukes
Add

[niall.m]

Thanks for pointing me to this thread Obee, and thanks to a lot of contributors to it - some great advice.

 

I've stared the off season with the goal of improving my putting, and I've already (potentially) seen a bit of an improvement on the course. Not counting my chickens yet however.....

 

My last round I was -0.5 SG putting, which for me is pretty good. My last 5 rounds of the season I averaged -5.1 😑....... ouch.

 

For the drill mentioned in the thread where you're looking to roll the ball end over end I've bought some Srixon divide balls and I've been practicing on some carpet in the house. I'm slowly getting better at it and making some progress from 12 feet and in. My question is, when you get it right and roll is perfect, what does that tell me about my stroke/impact? Does it only tell me that the face was square at impact or does it tell me anything about path?

[Obee]

1 hour ago, niall.m said:

Thanks for pointing me to this thread Obee, and thanks to a lot of contributors to it - some great advice.

 

I've stared the off season with the goal of improving my putting, and I've already (potentially) seen a bit of an improvement on the course. Not counting my chickens yet however.....

 

My last round I was -0.5 SG putting, which for me is pretty good. My last 5 rounds of the season I averaged -5.1 😑....... ouch.

 

For the drill mentioned in the thread where you're looking to roll the ball end over end I've bought some Srixon divide balls and I've been practicing on some carpet in the house. I'm slowly getting better at it and making some progress from 12 feet and in. My question is, when you get it right and roll is perfect, what does that tell me about my stroke/impact? Does it only tell me that the face was square at impact or does it tell me anything about path?

Doesn't really tell you too much about path. I've seen people roll the ball end-over-end with varying strike types. Just focus on that and your putting will become better. It's just the first step (you need to pair it with solid green reading, but rolling the ball end-over-end really helps with speed control and line control because you must put an efficient stroke on the ball to roll it that way. Once you make your stroke more efficient and repeatable, everything else follows.

[MelloYello]

I think the line drill is so great because it places importance on aligning your path & face angle. You have to work to develop a stroke that delivers the putter with a neutral path and a square face. And then when that's done, you have to adjust your alignment because your new stroke is probably sending the ball in a new direction from what you're used to. 🙂

 

If you can get good at the line drill you'll be rolling the ball right where you're aimed. 

 

It's hard to be a bad putter when your aim is good and your stroke is starting the ball on line!

 

Most of the putts we'd consider "makeable" have minimal break and are within 20-ft. Any putt like that isn't going to challenge you for speed control. Thus, "making putts" is mostly about making the easier putts and those are mostly to do with start line. 

 

People obsess about speed but any putt where speed is a critical factor is by definition, a very hard-to-hole putt. 3-putt avoidance has a lot to do with speed, yes, but holing straight-ish putts in the 5- to 15-ft range is mostly about alignment and start line and that's where great putters differentiate themselves from the decent putters.

 

.

Edited October 24, 2022 by MelloYello

[ewaldbeukes]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:05 PM, ewaldbeukes said:

Found this thread earlier this week with a redirect from Obee commenting on another.

 

First off, thank you to all that commented - I read all 25 pages of the thread and there is some wonderful nuggets in here as well as evidence of just how painful putting can be! 

 

@Obee I hope the back is better - I have a L4, L5 herniation and really related to your story about men not knowing about this despite many of us suffering! I can go from shooting 75 to 90 depending on if the back locks up... its hard! Hope you got some relief

 

Some take-outs for me from this thread that I really loved and am working on /is working for me)

 

1. Roll the ball properly (end over end) with a line 

 

I find that it doesnt matter HOW you do this ie setup, stroke, grip, putter - you just need to be able to repeat. I went back to conventional hands, a shorter putter, index finger down the shaft and using the body triangle as Obee discussed and its yielding a better roll. Freaked me out as I needed to re-learn how to aim AFTER making the change as I used to aim right and pull it. So changing stroke may change your aim. 

 

2. 4ft Drill for speed and calibration

 

Our home clubs greens are fairly speedy and need to get this calibration down. Also the circle drill from 4ft is a nice one to try in addition (this has been mentioned here too)

 

3. Practice chipping to 6ft

 

Often we think our putting sucks but when your short game is poor, it puts loads of pressure on the putter. It was only when my SG was <par around the green that I really noticed how many I was missing on the greens. 

 

4. Aimpoint Express

 

I was not the best at greens reading but my club had a book so bought one and that combined with AE was a great help. I try to not use is from 10ft and in as I putt better on feel inside 10ft but each to their own. 

 

My goal is to get my putts to consistent 29 per round which should help me get my scoring back to level par or under!

 

Thought this might be helpful and didnt find it in the thread so please correct me if someone has posted. For getting some practice in at home or at the course a simple and cheap training aid for me is a 1m(3ft) steel ruler (see attached pic) Its thin and has a hole in the top. Pop the ball in the hole with the line directly down the ruler and practice hitting putts. If the ball stays on the ruler your doing well and face is square, if the ball rolls end over end as well your in the money. Very inexpensive and you can do it on any floor type at home or in the office. I find its chalk and cheese me confidence on 3-5ft putts if I have or have not putted on it the week before playing.

 

Thanks again everyone for the inputs! Good luck out there

Love the direction this thread took my game on... started looking for a longer putter as @Obee did and wound up with a Ping B90. See the line better, roll is better and have gone from 33-36 putts per round to 26-29 putts per round! Worth reading this whole thread (sometimes a second time) and getting some ideas and trying them out! Good luck 

[getitdaily]

Get one of these and practice with it. Train your eyes to.see break and how much break there is....

 

[D0ch0l1d4y]

Don’t even need to buy the level. 
 

download the Tour Read app. Use the free trial to calibrate the breaks of a couple routine practice putts. Cancel the trial and use the app for the level.

 

 

[Ty_Webb]

I saw someone mention the Tempostik in here. I looked into that a little bit - it's an interesting looking piece of kit, but holy smokes is it expensive! About $600 for a LED strip and controller. Dug around a little and figured out how to make my own. Here's my first prototype:

 

 

I figured out the timings by finding Tiger's SAM puttlab report and using the acceleration to calculate speed and distance from start point along the way, then setting the delay between each LED lighting up based on the distance profile. It's smoother in real life than the gif shows. This is about a 15 foot putt I think

 

Right now I can only adjust the timings by rewriting the program. Next step trying to automate it so I can have a tempo and a putt distance input and have it figure out the timings based on that. I think I can figure out all the automation to make that happen, but then programming it into the microcontroller will be the challenge. 

[ewaldbeukes]

Speaking of putting training aids and tempo... I used to use the Old iPing putting app with the cradle and loved the fact that I could see tempo, face angle at impact etc. Are there any apps / tools out there that arent going to break the bank (As I likely will need to import) that gives you this same information? or similar?

[cocolamb22]

20 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Speaking of putting training aids and tempo... I used to use the Old iPing putting app with the cradle and loved the fact that I could see tempo, face angle at impact etc. Are there any apps / tools out there that arent going to break the bank (As I likely will need to import) that gives you this same information? or similar?

I downloaded the iping 2.0 app and made my own cradle. Took one of those rubber vise clamps and used tiny screws to attach it to the back of a thin old phone case. I’m not sure if it’s as accurate as an actual cradle, but I like to use it a few times a week to work on tempo and consistency. 
 

only problem is my phone seems really heavy when attached. 
 

but it’s an idea!

[b.mattay]

That iPing app was rubbish IMO.
Overall, I would say I’m a super solid putter relative to handicap, and tend to putt the lights out come tourney time. 
I literally couldn’t get a “handicap score” better than 13 on that iPing app. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by b.mattay

[CMCSGolf]

I have a question for the group on how to improve mid range putting.  I'm a low handicap player who was a poor putter that turned himself into a slightly below average putter.  I used to experiment with putters and grips all the time, but have stuck with the same putter the last three seasons and a left hand low technique.  Overall, I'm satisfied with my putting because I am a good lag putter and a good putter from 6 feet and in, so I rarely three putt.

 

The issue comes with 6-15 feet.  I make almost none of these putts.  I've kept details stats recently and I am +0.24 SG inside 6 feet, -0.86 SG from 7-10 feet, and -1.02 SG from 10-15 feet.  I have a slight bias to missing left on mid range putts and I think my putts are hit with good speed.

 

So how do I make more 7-15 footers?  If I'm technically sound enough to be good from inside 6 feet, I don't understand how I can't make 10 footers.  It's perplexed me for awhile now and I'd love some ideas.  

[Obee]

50 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

I have a question for the group on how to improve mid range putting.  I'm a low handicap player who was a poor putter that turned himself into a slightly below average putter.  I used to experiment with putters and grips all the time, but have stuck with the same putter the last three seasons and a left hand low technique.  Overall, I'm satisfied with my putting because I am a good lag putter and a good putter from 6 feet and in, so I rarely three putt.

 

The issue comes with 6-15 feet.  I make almost none of these putts.  I've kept details stats recently and I am +0.24 SG inside 6 feet, -0.86 SG from 7-10 feet, and -1.02 SG from 10-15 feet.  I have a slight bias to missing left on mid range putts and I think my putts are hit with good speed.

 

So how do I make more 7-15 footers?  If I'm technically sound enough to be good from inside 6 feet, I don't understand how I can't make 10 footers.  It's perplexed me for awhile now and I'd love some ideas.  

Great question. Interested to see what the group has to say. I definitely have thoughts here, as it is something that I’ve became significantly better at over the last five years.