How do you keep the club head outside the hands on the way back?

[KMeloney]

I know that I have a tendency to let the club head get inside early on the back swing. It's just that I haven't found the right feel/thing(s) to focus on to get the head going up (and not under) the plane better.

 

Never mind that this might not be a conscious motion for those who don't have a problem with an inside take-away. But assuming it was at one point, or if you're working on it now, then what do you focus on?

 

Do you hinge the left wrist upward early?

Do you focus on the movement of your left arm?

Do you make sure you're not bending back your right wrist early?

Do you feel a lift with your hands?

 

I have a tendency to set my wrists late -- or at least set the left hinge late and bend the right hand back early. That can get the club head moving inside early, and things go south from there.

 

Any insight into your method for avoiding the inside take-away is appreciated.

[GMR]

Don't let your trail arm fan open. Try keeping your trail hand "on top" of the club instead of letting it get underneath. One thing that helps accomplish this is by beginning to rotate your body a tad earlier in relation to your arms so that your arms are more in the middle of your chest on the way back as opposed to in front of your right shoulder.

[deadsolid...shank]

That’s my natural takeaway motion, one I fight every day.

 

My simple take is to make sure the clubhead goes straight back on the target line for the first 6” or so of the swing.

[Golfrnut]

I just think thumbs straight up along my toe line...only thing I have gotten to work. I found I was just way overdoing "Keeping wide", "Trail arm straight", etc. In reality, my thumbs still point back over my trail shoulder and they are not pointing straight up, depth is still there, etc but my hands don't go near as deep and behind me as they used to and I don't throw the club head so far behind me in on the takeway. I get more lift and less depth from it.

[Universal]

Make sure you don't have any tension in your arms and hands and feel like the handle moves before the clubhead does in the takeaway.

[jeffblais09]

keep it simple. think clubface pointed at the ball for as long as you can maintain it into the back swing. generally this swing "fault" is caused by an incorrect pivot off the ball.

 

more in depth description would be, in your takeaway rotate shoulders and arms in unison maintaining connection. should feel like club head is in line with your sternum for the first foot or so. as long as you have proper weight transfer into your trail foot the club head should theoretically be in line with your hands at hip height and be on plane moving back.

 

good drill is placing a ball behind the club head while hitting shots on the range. if you can push the ball straight backwards in your takeaway it should help remedy things quite a bit. if the ball moves inside the target line that means you are fanning the club open and moving inside on your takeaway. vice versa if the ball ends up outside of the target line.

[KMeloney]

Thanks for the responses. Plenty of different things work for different folks, it seems.

 

Regarding the idea of having the club head "look" at the ball longer/keeping the right hand more on top of the club... I feel like I've considered this notion before; but for me it tends to make that first move away tense/wooden feeling, and promotes a complete lack of wrist hinge through most of the back swing. I know it SHOULDN'T, so I guess I need a better sense for the transition to the top to be coupled with that first part of the takeaway.

 

I've messed with the idea of the hands going back and in while the club head stays out and up, and that does promote a wrist hinge for me -- but everything else feels wrong from there. (Like anything else, I could be overdoing it, of course.)

[GMR]

Thanks for the responses. Plenty of different things work for different folks, it seems.

 

Regarding the idea of having the club head "look" at the ball longer/keeping the right hand more on top of the club... I feel like I've considered this notion before; but for me it tends to make that first move away tense/wooden feeling, and promotes a complete lack of wrist hinge through most of the back swing. I know it SHOULDN'T, so I guess I need a better sense for the transition to the top to be coupled with that first part of the takeaway.

 

I've messed with the idea of the hands going back and in while the club head stays out and up, and that does promote a wrist hinge for me -- but everything else feels wrong from there. (Like anything else, I could be overdoing it, of course.)

If you are used to taking it back one way and change it, everything afterward will of course feel wrong since you will be forced to have to figure out how to hit the ball from a position you are not used to. Stick with it, figuring that part of the puzzle out is where the breakthrough happens.

[liaidton]

I struggled with this for 20 yrs before a very good instructor in Texas told me what to do. Assuming your grip is correct ( most important fundamental ), try to keep the cup in the back of your left hand all the way to the top. You probably won't keep it all the way to the top, the left forearm will usually rotate somewhat once you pass 9 o'clock. From address bring club straight back about 12 inches as well so you don't suck the club inside ( a separate problem but closely related to fanning the club open and getting plane of club too flat ).

[Golf nerd]

Check out the "A swing" technique for changing your takeaway. Forget about your feel as compass. Can't feel good when you change your swing.

[Bye]

Focus on the butt of the club rather than the club head. When the club head goes inside quickly the handle is moving away from your body.

 

I also find that I get too much weight on my front foot at address which then tends to stop me from turning properly again causing the club to go inside early.

[Obee]

Work backwards. Put your hands/clubhead in the position you want them to be at when your hands are thigh-high and reverse engineer from there.

[bluedot]

I'll take a shot from the Ballard perspective. The clubhead is getting inside too fast because of other things; fix them and the clubhead won't do that.

 

At address, check two things. First, twist your right toe inward as if you are crushing a bug or a cigarette, and create a feel of being braced against the inside of your right foot, ankle, and knee. Second, be SURE that your chin is up and off your chest. From there, swing the club; if you are properly coiled into your right side, there is pretty much no way to get too far inside too quickly.

 

Your brain wants your body to hit the ball hard, and your body wants to respond by getting into a powerful position. If you don't coil, and if your chest can't turn because of your chin, then your body is going to reach back for more power to replace the lack of coil. That's where you get inside too fast and under the plane, and from there, almost anything can happen.

[MK7Golf21]

keep it simple. think clubface pointed at the ball for as long as you can maintain it into the back swing. generally this swing "fault" is caused by an incorrect pivot off the ball.

 

more in depth description would be, in your takeaway rotate shoulders and arms in unison maintaining connection. should feel like club head is in line with your sternum for the first foot or so. as long as you have proper weight transfer into your trail foot the club head should theoretically be in line with your hands at hip height and be on plane moving back.

 

good drill is placing a ball behind the club head while hitting shots on the range. if you can push the ball straight backwards in your takeaway it should help remedy things quite a bit. if the ball moves inside the target line that means you are fanning the club open and moving inside on your takeaway. vice versa if the ball ends up outside of the target line.

 

This is the classic one piece takeaway, Tiger has actually had this motion ever since he went to Foley. His hands are slightly more wider now but still same action. I like a bit more wrist hinge/action in my takeaway. I feel too wooden with the classic one piece takeaway.

[Jasonic]

Figure out what it is that brings the club inside. Some people it’s flat shoulder turn for me it’s too much forearm rotation. So for me I feel like the clubface is rotating zero going back (it’s not) and my left shoulder works down a ton. Feels like I’m Jim Furyk but looks “normal”.

[jeffblais09]

keep it simple. think clubface pointed at the ball for as long as you can maintain it into the back swing. generally this swing "fault" is caused by an incorrect pivot off the ball.

 

more in depth description would be, in your takeaway rotate shoulders and arms in unison maintaining connection. should feel like club head is in line with your sternum for the first foot or so. as long as you have proper weight transfer into your trail foot the club head should theoretically be in line with your hands at hip height and be on plane moving back.

 

good drill is placing a ball behind the club head while hitting shots on the range. if you can push the ball straight backwards in your takeaway it should help remedy things quite a bit. if the ball moves inside the target line that means you are fanning the club open and moving inside on your takeaway. vice versa if the ball ends up outside of the target line.

 

This is the classic one piece takeaway, Tiger has actually had this motion ever since he went to Foley. His hands are slightly more wider now but still same action. I like a bit more wrist hinge/action in my takeaway. I feel too wooden with the classic one piece takeaway.

 

I will say it took quite some time to feel natural, and really did feel a bit stiff when I first started working on it. As with any change of movement in the swing, it will be a bit of a learning curve.

 

Generally the inside move is from reverse pivoting onto the lead foot. focusing on loading into the trail leg and maintaining width fixes the inside move fairly quickly.

 

OP, what is your typical miss? that can tell a lot about what you should focus on. The takeaway thoughts i mentioned will result in some nasty left pulls if there is a reverse pivot involved.

[KMeloney]

OP, what is your typical miss? that can tell a lot about what you should focus on. The takeaway thoughts i mentioned will result in some nasty left pulls if there is a reverse pivot involved.

 

The miss 90% of the time is a hook, usually from hanging back/not transferring my weight forward effectively. There's little doubt in my mind that that miss is due in part to the inside takeaway and getting stuck from there.

[KMeloney]

Really good stuff, folks. I've got plenty to think about and try.

 

My own post reminded me of the Arm Swing Illusion thread (and the notion that the takeaway is not a swinging away of the arms, but more of an up-and-down motion incorporated with a turn). It's really always been the "up" aspect that's felt to be missing from my takeaway. The ASI -take on the takeaway definitely provides the "up" (as opposed to the no-good in-and-around) to the backswing. Anyone here use the idea of up-&-out-with-core-rotation for the backswing?

[iteachgolf]

Most who get the clubhead behind ear don’t have their arms work IN enough. They try to fix it by arms going out to be more in front of them and only causes more arm rotation and the club getting too flat. The way the hands stay inside the clubhead is they work IN during the takeaway.

[jekato]

Proper torso and shoulder sequence.

[jeffblais09]

OP, what is your typical miss? that can tell a lot about what you should focus on. The takeaway thoughts i mentioned will result in some nasty left pulls if there is a reverse pivot involved.

 

The miss 90% of the time is a hook, usually from hanging back/not transferring my weight forward effectively. There's little doubt in my mind that that miss is due in part to the inside takeaway and getting stuck from there.

 

So before I start I just want to clarify i am making a big assumption, so correct me if I am wrong please.

 

Here is my guess based on what you are saying. The club inside portion is really just a compensation for something else. At address you are probably reaching a bit. Meaning, your distance to the ball is too far away for your correct spine angle and posture. With your irons and wedges, im gonna guess you typically miss thin, with the odd super fat shot tossed in. Am I on the right path?

 

if this is the case, it will make it nearly impossible to rotate efficiently, or release the club. your body/mind is compensating to figure out a way to get the club on the ball from your starting position. That would explain your difficulty transferring to your front foot. You cannot release because of poor setup and posture, weight transfers to the toes, torso locks up, hands take over, big nasty hook.

 

What i am basically saying is you fix your posture and spine angle at address, it wont necessarily cure the inside move right away, but it will certainly minimize it and you can start getting the club on plane.

 

sole the club behind the ball with your left hand only on the grip, with your right arm basically hanging straight down from your shoulder. If you cant simply move your right hand laterally onto the grip with out some sort of manipulation or reaching forward to get it onto the grip you are not in proper position at address.

 

Does that make sense?

[jeffblais09]

Most who get the clubhead behind ear don't have their arms work IN enough. They try to fix it by arms going out to be more in front of them and only causes more arm rotation and the club getting too flat. The way the hands stay inside the clubhead is they work IN during the takeaway.

 

I believe you are right with this. In my post above, do you agree it is most likely caused by the improper setup/posture? that would cause the over rotation, etc.

[iteachgolf]

Most who get the clubhead behind ear don't have their arms work IN enough. They try to fix it by arms going out to be more in front of them and only causes more arm rotation and the club getting too flat. The way the hands stay inside the clubhead is they work IN during the takeaway.

 

I believe you are right with this. In my post above, do you agree it is most likely caused by the improper setup/posture? that would cause the over rotation, etc.

 

No. More stand to close which is why their arms work out. They have no room to work in. A ton have great setups and still have terrible takeaways. It’s the wrong concept they try to fix their clubhead getting behind by trying to get arms more out. Which makes it worse.

[jeffblais09]

Most who get the clubhead behind ear don't have their arms work IN enough. They try to fix it by arms going out to be more in front of them and only causes more arm rotation and the club getting too flat. The way the hands stay inside the clubhead is they work IN during the takeaway.

 

I believe you are right with this. In my post above, do you agree it is most likely caused by the improper setup/posture? that would cause the over rotation, etc.

 

No. More stand to close which is why their arms work out. They have no room to work in. A ton have great setups and still have terrible takeaways. It's the wrong concept they try to fix their clubhead getting behind by trying to get arms more out. Which makes it worse.

 

That makes sense

[Nard_S]

The "fix" for my own poor takeaway is rather simple. Keep right elbow above left till the fold and lift part. Shoulder rotation is dominant. Adam Scott and Rory do this and it clearly helped me quite a bit in taming erratic positioning I used to have.

[kobe123]

The go to drill I use is this:

 

Take your set up, then put alignment stick between your feet. For a right hander this would be the alignment stick would be across your right toe and left heel. Now on the way back get your club at the same angle as this. You will be like your club head is outside the ball but it won't be. Will take awhile to ingrain, but that's how I accomplished the feat. Also, I like to think about the grip going into my right pocket while the club stays out. Now this will be exaggerated, but it's what has helped me. Best of luck!

[KMeloney]

OP, what is your typical miss? that can tell a lot about what you should focus on. The takeaway thoughts i mentioned will result in some nasty left pulls if there is a reverse pivot involved.

 

The miss 90% of the time is a hook, usually from hanging back/not transferring my weight forward effectively. There's little doubt in my mind that that miss is due in part to the inside takeaway and getting stuck from there.

 

Here is my guess based on what you are saying. The club inside portion is really just a compensation for something else. At address you are probably reaching a bit. Meaning, your distance to the ball is too far away for your correct spine angle and posture. With your irons and wedges, im gonna guess you typically miss thin, with the odd super fat shot tossed in. Am I on the right path?

 

Who, me? I... I have no idea what you're talking about... :swoon:

 

I think being too far from the ball might be a big part of it. The rest of what you said makes total sense.

[jimb6golf]

I feel your pain as I struggle with the same fault of allowing the clubhead to get too far inside on the backswing. I have been trying to start the clubhead outside my hands, even outside the ball, and then turning my upperbody to control the tendency with some success. Also focusing on getting my wrists to hinge upward and not along my trail arm (bad description of a Monte technique). Still default at times to the bad tendency but it seems to be working better these past few months.

[KMeloney]

So many good responses in this thread. I really appreciate it.

[KMeloney]

Dan -- What you wrote makes complete sense. But I DO have a tendency to stand too far from the ball. Somewhere along the way I convinced myself that having my hands lower at address has led to hooks, and so I likely stand too far from the ball with my hands higher at address. From there, I think I trace an arc inward on the takeaway, since I'm already probably reaching too much to be able to naturally take the club up as I take it back.

 

I have a buddy whose first move is his left arm coming away from his body and fanning the club some, so I know what you're talking about. But, yeah, my poorer shots can often be attributed to getting my weight too forward on my toes as early as during the backswing (probably because it would look like I could never get back to the ball otherwise), having it stay there (never really getting into my right heel), and then needing to bail out/EE to keep from hitting the ball on the heel of the club/falling on my face/hitting 1' behind the ball.