POLL: 20 foot chip from one yard off the green. Decent lie.

[Justsomeguy]

Current index: 15.

I holed this shot today.

I think the + cappers are being modest.

[Mcgeeno]

I definitely was low on my prediction I think I was assuming Obee had some trick fancy twist at the end.

 

I'm a 2 cap and thought 60 out of 100 up and down and even though its a weakness I think after re-evaluating I am good for 80 out of 100.

 

Even my bad 20 foot easy chip is usually gonna be within 6 feet and I make a lot of putts.

[Obee]

I definitely was low on my prediction I think I was assuming Obee had some trick fancy twist at the end.

 

I'm a 2 cap and thought 60 out of 100 up and down and even though its a weakness I think after re-evaluating I am good for 80 out of 100.

 

Even my bad 20 foot easy chip is usually gonna be within 6 feet and I make a lot of putts.

 

C'mon, McG! When have I been known to have a "fancy trick twist at the end"???? LOL!

[GMR]

A straightforward 20ft chip on a flat green? I'd be dissapointed if my numbers were any worse than:

 

70/100 up/down (including the chip-ins)

5/100 chip in

 

I'm a UK 8 (roughly USGA 5/6), which is as low as my handicap has been in the past 12mo.

[Albatross85]

85/100 up/down

5 makes

10 missed putts

 

Currently +1 hdcp

[TheCityGame]

I went out and sort of tried this yesterday. Big difference was that I hit shot after shot from the same location. I rolled 10 balls into what I'd call a really "messy" fringe (not every lie was great). My stock short from that lie would be to use a 54º. I used a 54º, then a 60º, then a putter. There was a little break. Doing it in bunches, I got a little bit of blocking/ricochet from other balls, but nothing like saving a ball going from going 6 feet past.

 

it's not obvious, but that deep ball in the putter photo was the worst shot I hit. Line of the putter is roughly the line of the shot. Like I said, this is a 54º shot for me, but I actually had a better grouping with the 60º.

 

With the 54 and the 60, I sunk 1 each. With the putter, I sunk 2. I didn't get down in 3 with any ball. . .I sunk every putt I left.

 

20 feet felt a lot closer than I was picturing when I answered this question earlier. If I truly have a good lie and "not difficult" break, I would be bothered by not getting this shot up and in. Gotta feel like this is a "make" or a "very close" every time, almost as much as a putt.

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

I went out and sort of tried this yesterday. Big difference was that I hit shot after shot from the same location. I rolled 10 balls into what I'd call a really "messy" fringe (not every lie was great). My stock short from that lie would be to use a 54º. I used a 54º, then a 60º, then a putter. There was a little break. Doing it in bunches, I got a little bit of blocking/ricochet from other balls, but nothing like saving a ball going from going 6 feet past.

 

it's not obvious, but that deep ball in the putter photo was the worst shot I hit. Line of the putter is roughly the line of the shot. Like I said, this is a 54º shot for me, but I actually had a better grouping with the 60º.

 

With the 54 and the 60, I sunk 1 each. With the putter, I sunk 2. I didn't get down in 3 with any ball. . .I sunk every putt I left.

 

20 feet felt a lot closer than I was picturing when I answered this question earlier. If I truly have a good lie and "not difficult" break, I would be bothered by not getting this shot up and in. Gotta feel like this is a "make" or a "very close" every time, almost as much as a putt.

 

Good stuff there CG. If we get any decent wearher in the next week I want to go out and try this. No 60* for me though, probably a 9iron instead.

[jasonfish11]

I went to the practice green this weekend and gave it a try.

 

A couple things to note:

1. I couldn't find a "flat" 20' chip. The best I could do was 25' with a slight break

2. There were tons of ball marks in my landing area so I had some very odd kicks on the first hop (one acted like it plugged and just stayed where it landed)

 

So I did this 20 times as a 10 handicap who is generally weakest in my short game.

 

I made the 1st and 3rd attempt, easy game right? I didn't make any more after that.

I skulled 1 that ended up 15-20' past the hole

I chunked 1 that left me 15' short. Side note does anyone want to guess how many shots were between the one I skulled and the one I chunked? Hint I hit the skull before the chunk.

I had 1 that hit and stopped dead because of it hitting a prior pitch mark from someone else.

 

I had 13 that ended up inside 3' (including the 2 that I made, for you math guys)

I failed to get up & down 4 times

I had 3 that were about 4-8' all of which took odd bounces off old ball marks (I made 2 out of 3 of these)

 

So I made 10% of them got up & down 70% of the time and failed 20% of the time. Of my fails 2 of them were due to a crappy shot, and 2 were due to odd bounces that I wouldn't expect on a normal green (or if I decided to spend 15 min fixing the various ball marks on my line). In real life I don't get to hit the shot over and over again so I'd expect my results to be a little worse, but it's a very simple shot so I don't think it would be a lot worse.

 

Like I said in an earlier post. For a straight forward 20' chip all you need to do is make good contact and you'll be inside 5'.

 

Oh and the green I was doing it on normally stimps around 10.5 to 11 but it was in the evening so probably closer to 9.5 or 10

[dcmidnight]

CG is being modest, his short game is spot on.

 

For a 20' shot a yard off the green, that leaves the pin only 6 or so paces on. Definitely a shot I am really comfortably with using the hybrid. I spend time practicing that exact shot every week and its the perfect club for me from that distance. It get just enough air under the ball to get over the rough but puts a really good roll on the ball once it hits the green. My worst case scenario with that shot is a little bit of a stub and with that club its usually still got enough spin on it that its going to get on the green and roll towards the hole.

 

I would be disappointed if I couldn't get 80/100 up and down and roll at least 5 in. If I had more than 15/100 I wasnt getting up and down I'd be disappointed.

[Pigems]

It all depends which wedge I can use for that shot, if it’s a clean enough lie that I can bump it with a 51* wedge I’m getting up and down way more than if I have to hit it with a 59* wedge. Say 75-80/100 for the 51* and maybe 60-65/100 for the 59*. I always get closer to the hole with the 51* from the close from a clean lie then with the 59*.

[TheCityGame]

CG is being modest, his short game is spot on.

LOL.

 

Actually, after those attempts, I was like, "that's not good looking". I went back with a 54 and had a set of chips you could have thrown a welcome mat over. Nothing should be outside of 3 feet from that range for a single digit.

 

It all depends which wedge I can use for that shot, if it's a clean enough lie that I can bump it with a 51* wedge I'm getting up and down way more than if I have to hit it with a 59* wedge. Say 75-80/100 for the 51* and maybe 60-65/100 for the 59*. I always get closer to the hole with the 51* from the close from a clean lie then with the 59*.

You should be able to get up and down using a driver from that distance more than 65/100 times.

 

No way your contact on the 59º should be so poor (or your putting so poor) that you're at 65% unless you're a complete chop. If you're that bad with a 59º, I don't know why it would be in the bag.

[jslane57]

I ask this because I think that pros would AVERAGE under par on this shot, meaning that they would chip in more often than they fail to get up and down.

 

The shot is so simple that we should all strive for that. When executed properly (and there are many ways to do so), the shot should be only slightly less accurate than a putt.

 

Everyone's goal should be to feel "automatic" on this shot, right?

 

If not, why not?

I agree with this statement. Personally I will choose this miss over flirting with short side in a bunker or even a downhill sidehill breaking putt.

 

My stats on this shot are probably not much worse than if a putt, maybe 8/10 up and down. 1/10 make. 1/10 3 putt. But I'd go into to this shot expecting an easy up and down and on to the next hole...

[Pigems]

CG is being modest, his short game is spot on.

LOL.

 

Actually, after those attempts, I was like, "that's not good looking". I went back with a 54 and had a set of chips you could have thrown a welcome mat over. Nothing should be outside of 3 feet from that range for a single digit.

 

It all depends which wedge I can use for that shot, if it's a clean enough lie that I can bump it with a 51* wedge I'm getting up and down way more than if I have to hit it with a 59* wedge. Say 75-80/100 for the 51* and maybe 60-65/100 for the 59*. I always get closer to the hole with the 51* from the close from a clean lie then with the 59*.

You should be able to get up and down using a driver from that distance more than 65/100 times.

 

No way your contact on the 59º should be so poor (or your putting so poor) that you're at 65% unless you're a complete chop. If you're that bad with a 59º, I don't know why it would be in the bag.

 

It’s not about the contact for me, it’s judging the roll out. I can judge roll out much better with the 51 than the 59 because the ball is on the ground quicker, there’s more carry with the 59 witch makes roll out tricky to judge, sometimes it bites more than others. Plus my putting is a weak point for me so the closer to the hole the better the odds of getting U&D, I’m closer to the hole on average with my 51 in that situation so my guesstimate showed that. I’d probably get U&D more than 60-65% with the 59*, but I was being conservative with my guess. :)

[eagle1997]

For me, from the fringe is a completely different conversion rate than from the rough. Obee’s original post said from a lie you’d not feel comfortable putting (light rough). Of course, threads do kinda evolve on their own.

 

From the fringe, 1 yard off, I’m looking at a much higher U&D rate than from the rough. 90+/100. This points to me needing to work on my short pitch shots more.

[ThinkingPlus]

For me, from the fringe is a completely different conversion rate than from the rough. Obee's original post said from a lie you'd not feel comfortable putting (light rough). Of course, threads do kinda evolve on their own.

 

From the fringe, 1 yard off, I'm looking at a much higher U&D rate than from the rough. 90+/100. This points to me needing to work on my short pitch shots more.

I think Obes intent was that the first cut was a bit thicker where you did not want to "mush" a putt through, but carry some kind of more lofted club over. Because of the very short carry it allows folks to use a variety of approaches. That should max out everyone's percentages. I don't think the intent was the ball sitting down much at all (i.e., a clean look at the back 2/3 of the ball would be a good lie). Consensus?

 

I agree that tightly mown fringe would pretty much dictate a putt. Fringe at some places rolls to 8 or 9 which would have negligible impact on line and speed.

[eagle1997]

I think Obes intent was that the first cut was a bit thicker where you did not want to "mush" a putt through, but carry some kind of more lofted club over. Because of the very short carry it allows folks to use a variety of approaches. That should max out everyone's percentages. I don't think the intent was the ball sitting down much at all (i.e., a clean look at the back 2/3 of the ball would be a good lie). Consensus?

 

sure. :) in my "real world" test case, it was difficult to create that specific scenario. anything in the rough wasn't ideal because of our muddy as hell conditions. the grass around the practice green hadn't been cut for quite some time. we've just had a few days in a row of sun, hoping that has changed.

 

i really like was issacbm said earlier about becoming really, really proficient at the simple shots. it can lead to a very focused short game practice session.

[NoTalentLefty]

Good news: So last night I saw the short game lessons from the pros on GC. Greg Norman gives advice he was given by Lanny Watkins. Saw and realized I use to chip like this with my hands down on the grip to the shaft. Took it to the course today and took only 26 putts total on 18 holes due to chipping , with one chip in on 18 that I called before I hit it.

Bad News: I shot a 96 with a ton of penalties.

Worse news: It wasn’t a tough course really.

[Obee]

Good news: So last night I saw the short game lessons from the pros on GC. Greg Norman gives advice he was given by Lannie Watkins. Saw and realized I use to chip like this with my hands down on the grip to the shaft. Took it to the course today and took only 26 putts total on 18 holes due to chipping , with one chip in on 18 that I called before I hit it. <snip>

 

Love this! You know who else frequently chips like this: Pernice!!!!!

 

For me, from the fringe is a completely different conversion rate than from the rough. Obee's original post said from a lie you'd not feel comfortable putting (light rough). Of course, threads do kinda evolve on their own.

 

From the fringe, 1 yard off, I'm looking at a much higher U&D rate than from the rough. 90+/100. This points to me needing to work on my short pitch shots more.

I think Obes intent was that the first cut was a bit thicker where you did not want to "mush" a putt through, but carry some kind of more lofted club over. Because of the very short carry it allows folks to use a variety of approaches. That should max out everyone's percentages. I don't think the intent was the ball sitting down much at all (i.e., a clean look at the back 2/3 of the ball would be a good lie). Consensus?

 

I agree that tightly mown fringe would pretty much dictate a putt. Fringe at some places rolls to 8 or 9 which would have negligible impact on line and speed.

 

Yes, I wanted it to be something where you should probably NOT putt it, but that a variety of clubs could be used.

[NPVWhiz]

Poll first

 

6 index

10-15 holed of 100

85 of 100 up and down

 

 

On course, one look, I'm holing this 1 in 12 and getting up and down 80% of the time.

 

I was on the verge of calling foul on some of the low single digit estimates as being a bit optimistic but instead went out and tried it. I've had a lot of time this spring and summer to practice my putting and short game, on the order of 15 to 25 hours a week for long stretches. I'm a solid six moving to the fives that worked this year getting my game back in shape to compete in local senior tourney play. My most recent t score was within 5 of the course rating from 6700, and that was a damp, no roll Midwest 6700.

 

I hit sand pitch and lob from about 20 to 25 feet from the collar on the practice green where I spend a lot of time. These collars are usually pretty shaggy so I think it fit Obee's intent. I hit one batch of 10 from the rough just beyond the collar which was about 2 1/2 inches and a bit damp.

 

I agree with the assessment that this scenario from the collar is an easy shot for the 8 and lower handicaps. Or, it should be.

 

In 60 shots from two different but comparable positions, I holed 9 and had two balls that were outside 4 feet, one at 4 and one at 7. I missed 2 of the 60 putts with the caveat that my putting inside of 10 feet right now is closer to scratch than it is to my six. But that number of makes has got to be on the high side of the stats. Maybe it was just a lucky run or a consequence of hitting repeat shots. I may run 60 again tomorrow and compare stats.

 

Admittedly it is easy to plink five at a time at this distance. You're really just bumping it onto the green. I actually had a little larger deviation with the pw due to just having to barely bump it on. The lob wedge was not appreciably different from the sand wedge. Just a little bump and run to the cup. I holed 1 of the 10 lw shots. This green was cut and running about 10 stimp.

 

The same shot from three feet off in the light rough is a different prospect when the element of grass between the face and ball is there, especially when it's damp. But that shot is in a different difficulty category.

 

I'd say this a basic shot that any 8 and under should be competent at playing to 70% up and down during regular rounds. When you're practicing, if this shot isn't dead 8 of 10 times that would be something to tidy up.

[elthrill]

hole out 5.

20 to gimme range.

74 within 2-8 feet.

1 bad shot.

 

82% up and down. i have a scratch short game. i give up all my strokes off the tee.

[NPVWhiz]

Another data point, or small data set. I holed what I though was an inordinately large number of these in the last practice run I made. It was cool and a bit rainy on Saturday but I gave it another run from two positions, this time using six balls a set for eleven runs at it. Just to reiterate, 20 feet from just off the green is a short shot. It ends up being a good bit closer than you first envision. And practicing the shot is much easier than looking at it at the first instance on the course during a round but this is a must have down pat shot in the kit of the 8 and under handicap player. In this run of 66 balls I holed 8 and missed three putts, one from 7 feet, one from 4 and one from 3. The rest were all at or inside 3 feet. Still a bit intrigued by the make rate but certainly not a skeptic of the idea that low caps should make 10 to 15 percent of these in this type of practice run and easily 1/10 on the course.

[Mcgeeno]

Don’t pros make 15 percent of 20 foot putts only though?

 

10-15 percent chip in rate seems high.

 

I think if I hit the same shot over and over i could Inflate my percentage but on the course I don’t see myself jarring it more than 1 in 10-15 attempts.

 

 

[NPVWhiz]

Don’t pros make 15 percent of 20 foot putts only though?

 

10-15 percent chip in rate seems high.

 

I think if I hit the same shot over and over i could Inflate my percentage but on the course I don’t see myself jarring it more than 1 in 10-15 attempts.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking when I first read through some of the poll numbers and estimates. But on a flat nice lie, this is much easier than a first assessment might suggest. I thought about the comparable 20 ft putt as well but after hitting a bunch of these I think the best way to explain it is that if your stroke is solid enough to chip these on line, the stats are likely closer to a 10 foot putt. If you bump it to the right spot, if it really is flat then it’s rolling out like a 10 footer. The caveat with my example, and it may well apply to other folks, is that it’s really easy to repeat this basic technique for 6 or more balls at a time. But at some point you have to be able to extrapolate out to the course scenario. This is a type of shot that should approach your practice make rate fairly closely. It is a basic, routine shot with the sw or the lw for the low caps, and an easy shot to work on and perhaps master for higher caps.

 

My parting thought on this would be that if you aren’t seeing this kind of make rate and your not getting 8 of 10 min up and down in practice, then that likely reflects some relative weakness across the player’s entire short game. If your technique and practice routine doesn’t leave you comfortable with this one, the rest is not likely to be sharp enough either.

[GMR]

Don't pros make 15 percent of 20 foot putts only though?

 

10-15 percent chip in rate seems high.

 

I think if I hit the same shot over and over i could Inflate my percentage but on the course I don't see myself jarring it more than 1 in 10-15 attempts.

The 15% of 20-foot putts pros make isn't really a useful stat since that's ALL putts, not just the flat easy ones (as was stipulated by the OP in this example) and moreover they are generally putting on greens that are stimping at 12-14, meaning that unless the green has absolutely zero slope at all (or they happen to be directly up above or below the hole), most 20' putts they face are going to have some decent swing on them. If you put those same pros in this situation facing a 20' putt with cup or less of break on decently smooth greens I'd gander that the make rate would be substantially higher than 15%.

[BiggErn]

hole out 5.

20 to gimme range.

74 within 2-8 feet.

1 bad shot.

 

82% up and down. i have a scratch short game. i give up all my strokes off the tee.

 

You sound like me.

[BiggErn]

Dont pros make 15 percent of 20 foot putts only though?

 

10-15 percent chip in rate seems high.

 

I think if I hit the same shot over and over i could Inflate my percentage but on the course I dont see myself jarring it more than 1 in 10-15 attempts.

 

 

If they roll the same 20 fter 100 times I’m betting it’s closer to 50%.

[Mych]

60/100 within 4 feet (should make).

20/100 4-8 feet (50/50 putt)

13/100 8-10 feet (25% make)

5/100 fluffed, fat, or other variety of hot garbage (0 make)

2/100 holed

 

Up & down 74%, 2% make, 14% missed

 

I think I may be too conservative with an estimate of 18 "bad" (8+ feet or miss hit) shots out of 100 from that distance, but it felt a little too aggressive to give myself more than 80/100 within reasonable putting range.

 

Unofficial cap in the 9-10 range

[Mcgeeno]

Don’t pros make 15 percent of 20 foot putts only though?

 

10-15 percent chip in rate seems high.

 

I think if I hit the same shot over and over i could Inflate my percentage but on the course I don’t see myself jarring it more than 1 in 10-15 attempts.

 

 

If they roll the same 20 fter 100 times I’m betting it’s closer to 50%.

 

Yeah good point. If I hit the same exact 20 foot chip 100 times in a row I'll look like a pretty capable player.