listing of the rarest/most collectible vintage clubs? (website/WRX thread link)

[OrangeGravy]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a website or thread on here that talks about which models and vintage of persimmon and irons are most collectible and or rare/desirable? I've gleaned a bit here and there from individual threads on a specific oem here and there, but was wondering if there was something or somewhere that had a lot of that information in one place. Thanks

[rex235]

Orange-

 

It's been a few years, but this is Mike Doherty's work.

 

http://www.advancedballstriking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=1272

[SteveNZ]

rex speaks the truth. Between there and here, you will find all you need.

[OrangeGravy]

Orange-

 

It's been a few years, but this is Mike Doherty's work.

 

http://www.advancedb...hp?f=202&t=1272

 

Thanks Rex

[xgolfx]

In my opinion, the

Doherty list is out of date. There are too many MacGregor store clubs on the list. Rember , at that time, when a mistake was made on a head, a cheaper grip and shaft was installed to make a store line item. Specifically, Armour and Suggs woods were rejected after comparison to the specs demanded of the top line for those signatures.

 

If rare is defined as quality , store clubs are not rare

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[rex235]

Charley-

 

No one questions you possess more than common knowledge about MacGregor clubs, and the game in general for nearly 80 years.

 

That's why you remain "two books easy".

 

If you choose not to do it, no one else will.

 

It's Doherty's POV, and one has to give him his due on putting the knowledge and history of golf equipment out there.

 

It may not be a contemporary look, but it is a look.

[BIG STU]

I noticed something interesting briefly going through some of the stuff. there is a Macgregor Driver stamped on the bottom with TP as in Toney Penna but the "T" is shaped like a golf tee and the P is as a regular P. I have never seen that stamped on a Macgregor club like that. Now I do have a Toney Penna blonde driver with that stamp on the bottom like that but no model number or Oil Hardened or Handmade. Only TP driver I have ever seen without the model number stamped on it

[xgolfx]

Show me a picture please

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[rex235]

Stu-

 

Just the "TP" by itself? No Oil Hardened? "Super Eye O Matic" soleplate?

 

Please show us a photo.

[OrangeGravy]

Stu-

 

Just the "TP" by itself? No Oil Hardened? "Super Eye O Matic" soleplate?

 

Please show us a photo.

 

Hey Rex and/or Charley,

 

I have a Driver, 2w, 4w that match the description of the MacGregor Tourney RT2W Velocitized woods in Mike Doherty's publication you linked me to with one exception. Instead of RT2W, the stamp above the sole plate is PT25W. Do either of you have any idea what the PT25W means? I see that there are Penna Tourney woods (PT2W/PT1W) that translate to Penna Tour/Tourney, 1 Pro-Pel shaft, but I don't see anything with a PT25W anywhere.

[rex235]

Orange-

 

According to the Kaplan Compilation of MacGregor catalogs-

 

The PT Series is listed on page 4 of the 1958 MacGregor Professional Catalog.

 

PT25W is specifically listed in the lower right hand corner of the page.

[OrangeGravy]

Orange-

 

According to the Kaplan Compilation of MacGregor catalogs-

 

The PT Series is listed on page 4 of the 1958 MacGregor Professional Catalog.

 

PT25W is specifically listed in the lower right hand corner of the page.

 

That's a nice book. Thanks

[SteveNZ]

Orange-

 

According to the Kaplan Compilation of MacGregor catalogs-

 

The PT Series is listed on page 4 of the 1958 MacGregor Professional Catalog.

 

PT25W is specifically listed in the lower right hand corner of the page.

 

That's a nice book. Thanks

 

So what does the code PT25W signify, out of interest? Other than it's a wood, obviously :-)

[OrangeGravy]

Orange-

 

According to the Kaplan Compilation of MacGregor catalogs-

 

The PT Series is listed on page 4 of the 1958 MacGregor Professional Catalog.

 

PT25W is specifically listed in the lower right hand corner of the page.

 

That's a nice book. Thanks

 

So what does the code PT25W signify, out of interest? Other than it's a wood, obviously :-)

 

1958, longer at 44"(also making effective lie angle flatter), Pro-Pel 2 shaft, fancy 2 tone grip, Rosewood stain, larger insert. It's the OEM catalog, so it's just the product description. It's not going to say anything about where it might stand in the vintage world. They're pretty nice looking though. I haven't hit them yet. I got them for free, so can't complain!

[rex235]

Orange-

 

Vintage or otherwiise-

 

It would help if you posted a photo.

[OrangeGravy]

Orange-

 

Vintage or otherwiise-

 

It would help if you posted a photo.

 

I'll post some this weekend, maybe tomorrow. I also got a Mac DX 5w and an old Wilson 4300 3w with no insert, gray shaft with 2 yellow bands, cool old leather grip.

 

The PT25W's are in ok shape. The driver is a bit rough, but the 2w/4w are in better shape structurally.

[OrangeGravy]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stevie.Red]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:14 PM, rex235 said:

Stu-

 

Just the "TP" by itself? No Oil Hardened? "Super Eye O Matic" soleplate?

 

Please show us a photo.

so sorry to re open this thread- in my search to find out what the heck I have, it led me to here. PT2W stamp. pretty sweet score for $5CAD i think. isnt in my possession yet, had to get a friend to pick it up lol. attached photos are all i can do for now but I did see a shaft band in the original ad so i will know more later. Any insight on this is appreciated!

[bcstones]

@Stevie.Red  it might help you to start to research buying the Kaplan books on the Hillerich & Bradsby, MacGregor, & Wilson lines..and the edition 4 of the the Maltby guide

[Hockeysam66]

https://archive.org/details/macgregorgolfhis00macg/page/n223/mode/2up

 

@Stevie.Red, I have found the Kaplan MacGregor catalog on this archive website.  You may need to create an account on the website in order to access the full catalog.  I have also found some old Hillerich and Bradsby sales pamphlets by searching on that website’s database.  The other Kaplan catalogs don’t seem to be available on there, so you may have to purchase those as @bcstones suggests. But at least the MacGregor catalog should help with your current question.

[Stevie.Red]

11 hours ago, Hockeysam66 said:

https://archive.org/details/macgregorgolfhis00macg/page/n223/mode/2up

 

@Stevie.Red, I have found the Kaplan MacGregor catalog on this archive website.  You may need to create an account on the website in order to access the full catalog.  I have also found some old Hillerich and Bradsby sales pamphlets by searching on that website’s database.  The other Kaplan catalogs don’t seem to be available on there, so you may have to purchase those as @bcstones suggests. But at least the MacGregor catalog should help with your current question.

THANK YOU! i am grateful! will look through this when ive got more time. cheers!!

[ezgoer]

Even with a Kaplan that’s new to me I’m still a little overwhelmed with the information. Hopefully a Mac expert will chime in. You got a weird one. 
 

PT2W first appeared in 1960 I think. Totally different face insert but it’s obvious yours has been replaced/repaired along the way. Totally different screw pattern. 693 style of pattern so diamond shape compared to yours. Black and white pictures but original looked like a firing pin style of insert. Those TP metal firing pin Mac’s are gorgeous if you’ve never seen them bye the way. 
 

Anothor odd thing is the SEOM sole plate. SEOM first shows up in 1957. Basically it’s a slightly bigger head but the main thing is the extra width, bigger face insert. 6 screw pattern 3 on each side. Not sure how long SEOM would have been an option. PT’s did have the same shaped sole plate. I’m not sure about the SEOM stamping on that plate. 
 

My uneducated guess is you may have a bit of a Frankenstein piece. Maybe even someone’s DIY project. That sure looks like a poured replacement insert and maybe they threw 4 screws in for security/looks??? Possibly also threw on an older SEOM sole plate cuz of damage or whatever??

 

Edited September 9, 2024 by ezgoer

[Stephen8802]

10 hours ago, ezgoer said:

...My uneducated guess is you may have a bit of a Frankenstein piece. Maybe even someone’s DIY project. That sure looks like a poured replacement insert and maybe they threw 4 screws in for security/looks??? Possibly also threw on an older SEOM sole plate cuz of damage or whatever??

That is exactly right. It is a PT2W head with a replacement poured epoxy insert and a replacement SEOM soleplate.

[Stevie.Red]

Well boys if it hits the ball well I’ll be happy. While we’re on the subject of weird, here’s some irons I found that have a mysterious “T” on them. No luck finding anything online whatsoever. 
 

[Stephen8802]

M2T came with a 2 shaft and a black leather grip. M2TH came with a 2 shaft and a black rubber grip.

[ezgoer]

2 hours ago, Stevie.Red said:

Well boys if it hits the ball well I’ll be happy. While we’re on the subject of weird, here’s some irons I found that have a mysterious “T” on them. No luck finding anything online whatsoever. 
 

You may really like those ceramic face coated irons. I have a set of 59 FC PT1’s that are one of my favorite sets. Cool feel and they make a cool noise. Sounds like you have 10mph more swing speed. That #2 shaft should be a lot friendlier than mine #1’s was no joke back then. 1 was stiff 2 was regular but they sure seem to feel/play stiffer. 
 

Also going back to your driver. Kinda neat it’s telling a story in a way. Was either someone’s experiment or club smithing test club or neat thing could possibly have been a really loved club. That insert is definitely not attractive but maybe it was such a good club to whoever they just had to keep it going. Back then pro’s or good golfers would hit multiple’s of the exact same club to find one that speaks to your wants. 

Edited September 10, 2024 by ezgoer

[Stevie.Red]

3 hours ago, Stephen8802 said:

M2T came with a 2 shaft and a black leather grip. M2TH came with a 2 shaft and a black rubber grip.

Please excuse my ignorance, would this imply that it is a regular shaft or maybe even weaker flex?

 

For example, I know the Hogan shafts that come in number four are stiff and three is regular, I’m not sure if they across other brands to be the same or not. 

[Stephen8802]

In the 60s, Macgregor used shaft designations 1,2,3,4. As they defined them, 1 was their stiff shaft, 2 was a medium stiff, 3 was a medium soft, and 4 was soft. I always refer to them as 1 or 2 shafts and not stiff or regular because 50s and 60s shafts were different than 80s and 90s shafts, so the words don't mean the same thing. If I had to use words instead of numbers, I'd go with medium stiff for that 2 shaft, not regular.

 

I just grabbed two 2 woods from my office and put them on the deflection board in my shop, a PT1W from 1960 and an MT2W from 1961, so the same era as yours. The 1 shaft measured halfway between S300 and Dynamic extra stiff, and the 2 shaft measured right around S300. My reference point for stiff is S300, and based on that, I'd call a 2 shaft stiff and a 1 shaft a little stiffer (but not X).

 

One more thing to consider. Because of a lack of self control and moral weakness, I now have far more clubs than any intelligent person should. Since I can't reshaft them all, I play whatever shafts they came with, from pyratone to Macgregor C/D/Es, Macgregor 1/2 shafts, Wilson 50s/60s R shafts, all the flavors of Dynamics, and modern graphite shafts. After playing all of those different shafts, I was surprised that there isn't nearly as much of a difference as I thought there was back in my competitive golf days. Now I really don't care what shafts are in the clubs, I play them all and enjoy them all. If I had those irons, I'd play them and enjoy them and not worry if they had a 1 or a 2 shaft.

[Stevie.Red]

On 9/10/2024 at 4:26 PM, Stephen8802 said:

In the 60s, Macgregor used shaft designations 1,2,3,4. As they defined them, 1 was their stiff shaft, 2 was a medium stiff, 3 was a medium soft, and 4 was soft. I always refer to them as 1 or 2 shafts and not stiff or regular because 50s and 60s shafts were different than 80s and 90s shafts, so the words don't mean the same thing. If I had to use words instead of numbers, I'd go with medium stiff for that 2 shaft, not regular.

 

I just grabbed two 2 woods from my office and put them on the deflection board in my shop, a PT1W from 1960 and an MT2W from 1961, so the same era as yours. The 1 shaft measured halfway between S300 and Dynamic extra stiff, and the 2 shaft measured right around S300. My reference point for stiff is S300, and based on that, I'd call a 2 shaft stiff and a 1 shaft a little stiffer (but not X).

 

One more thing to consider. Because of a lack of self control and moral weakness, I now have far more clubs than any intelligent person should. Since I can't reshaft them all, I play whatever shafts they came with, from pyratone to Macgregor C/D/Es, Macgregor 1/2 shafts, Wilson 50s/60s R shafts, all the flavors of Dynamics, and modern graphite shafts. After playing all of those different shafts, I was surprised that there isn't nearly as much of a difference as I thought there was back in my competitive golf days. Now I really don't care what shafts are in the clubs, I play them all and enjoy them all. If I had those irons, I'd play them and enjoy them and not worry if they had a 1 or a 2 shaft.

I think it comes with the name (spelling not important) of Steven, it appears I am becoming an irrational purchaser of random stuff way too often and its too fun to stop. My only regret is not doing it sooner. Good to know about the 1 and 2 because I already turned away from potential purchases with 2 shafts, maybe those are better suited to me since i game DG S300 in my current irons and I try to use that as the benchmark for what I ought to purchase (to play). Its annoying that Hogans are seemingly reversed, as I have learned 3 is reg and 4 is stiff-

 

Anyways, I saw these online for $20CAD and now theyre mine. Couldnt find much online with a quick google but ebay says $20 was too good of a bargain to pass up. Currently I am $40CAD In for these DX Tourney by macgregor, haig ultras, robert jones jr spalding and top flite synchro dyned tour models (which seem to be in the worst shape therefore the first I experiment on and take apart).

 

2-9 iron with the 9 iron not matching the set exactly and was actually way cooler than the rest of them, in yellow. These old clubs have wierd musty looking stuff on the faces and my first thought is to soak them in coke but idk what that would do except make any grime come off easily. anyways, here you can see them if you care to look.

[bcstones]

12 hours ago, Stevie.Red said:

2-9 iron with the 9 iron not matching the set exactly and was actually way cooler than the rest of them, in yellow. These old clubs have wierd musty looking stuff on the faces and my first thought is to soak them in coke but idk what that would do except make any grime come off easily. anyways, here you can see them if you care to look.

I have a DX 1 iron RDX that almost matches the 9 iron you showed, if interested pm me.

 

IMO, the coke thing is way overated - what removes the rust is the phosphoric acid in the coke (read the label) - we used coke to loosen a ceramic painting from a cinderblock wall. Personally I use PB Blaster & a small copper or brass bristled welding brush to remove the grime &/or rust...I also use those Dremel finishing abrasive buff wheels (tan is 180 grit, black is 280 grit, & purple is 320 grit) & then finish off w/2000 or 3000 grit wet/dry paper.
 

that's just me....whatever works for you

Edited September 12, 2024 by bcstones