WRXers Scratch Amateur Tournaments Thread: Commitments, Results, etc....

[Ty_Webb]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @buzzthecat said:

> > Dang Blade, that's a roller coaster ride if I've ever seen one. I won't offer any advice as I'm sure you've heard it all...but I'll wish you the best. Your golf-mindfulness is impressive and I'm sure you'll turn a corner soon.

>

> Thanks. I know it’s yet another baby step. If I were 20 and started this game Id feel much more apt to be patient. But I’m 40 this year. I just have this fear that I’ll age out before I ever learn to really score. And all this will be wasted time. I play the game for the challenge. Competitive outlet. But I also detest wasted effort / ability. As in I know I’m capable in that field of playing 3 rounds under par and being in the conversation with these college kids. Plenty of people I’ve played with who finish around me don’t have the shots or length to do so. I do. They are doing the best they can. I’m not. And I want to.

>

>

> I realize the wall of text is terrible. It got out of hand before I knew it. Just ignore if you want a snapshot and look at scoring link for the most info and last few lines above that link I guess says it all.

>

 

I braved it! Quite the story. Did I read right that in round 1 you missed two 1 foot putts? You mentioned you flinched on the second one. Did something similar happen on the 1st? May be worth trying something new like a claw grip or a long putter.

 

[gioguy21]

@bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

 

i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

[bladehunter]

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @buzzthecat said:

> > > Dang Blade, that's a roller coaster ride if I've ever seen one. I won't offer any advice as I'm sure you've heard it all...but I'll wish you the best. Your golf-mindfulness is impressive and I'm sure you'll turn a corner soon.

> >

> > Thanks. I know it’s yet another baby step. If I were 20 and started this game Id feel much more apt to be patient. But I’m 40 this year. I just have this fear that I’ll age out before I ever learn to really score. And all this will be wasted time. I play the game for the challenge. Competitive outlet. But I also detest wasted effort / ability. As in I know I’m capable in that field of playing 3 rounds under par and being in the conversation with these college kids. Plenty of people I’ve played with who finish around me don’t have the shots or length to do so. I do. They are doing the best they can. I’m not. And I want to.

> >

> >

> > I realize the wall of text is terrible. It got out of hand before I knew it. Just ignore if you want a snapshot and look at scoring link for the most info and last few lines above that link I guess says it all.

> >

>

> I braved it! Quite the story. Did I read right that in round 1 you missed two 1 foot putts? You mentioned you flinched on the second one. Did something similar happen on the 1st? May be worth trying something new like a claw grip or a long putter.

>

 

...

[bladehunter]

> @gioguy21 said:

> @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

>

> i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

 

...

[gioguy21]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> >

> > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

>

> Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

 

before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

 

as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

[Ty_Webb]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> >

> > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

>

> Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

 

I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

[MtlJeff]

I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

 

Helps keep the putter stable I find

[bladehunter]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > >

> > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> >

> > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

>

> before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

>

> as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

 

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > >

> > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> >

> > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

>

> I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

 

> @MtlJeff said:

> I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one

[MtlJeff]

I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

 

If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

 

Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

 

I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie lol

[RichieHunt]

I am considering playing in the Florida State Mid-Am in October. The last day to sign up is September 25th. I've had various ailments this year....well, really for over the past year. I had some nerve damage in my right foot and plantar fasciites in my left foot. The bigger issue for me was the right shoulder and elbow. Then my right lower back and right hip started to hurt as well as the back of my right knee and my right ankle.

 

I finally decided to go see a chiropactor and I'm glad I did as most of the pain has gone away. If it keeps up that way and I'm still playing pretty decent, I'll sign up for the tournament as long as I don't have some crazy work schedule (work has been ridiculously busy all year long, but it should subside in a month or so.

 

As far as my play, it's been very good recently. Ever since going to see George Gankas for a lesson, he really uncovered some stuff that has plagued my swing and consistency for a long time. Some other stuff I just had the technique he prescribes wrong. My main issue is I just need to get more reps, particularly on the golf course.

 

In preparation for the Mid-Am, I've been playing in the Scratch Game at my home club, Orange Tree. I've had tremendous success this year as I was on the winning team 7 times in a row. The front nine at Orange Tree has killed me. I had a 41-32 and a 40-33 there. However, I shot 69 there on Saturday on some greens that were still a little bumpy due to aeration.

 

The Mid-Am is being played at Sara Bay. I think that's a good thing as looking at the course from Google Earth it seems pretty similar to Orange Tree, except it doesn't have the OB that Orange Tree has. Playing at Orange Tree has helped me become mentally stronger because I don't fret over making bogey or even double bogey as much. I have more confidence that I can always make up for it with good focus and some luck.

 

Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to see this thru.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Obee]

All of the "how many looks inside __ feet" are soooo course/tee dependent.

 

At my current home course (6517, 71.3/129) I may have 8+ looks inside 10 feet on a given day. At a longer, tougher course, maybe 2 or 3. Completely depends.

 

I have days where I make almost every 6 - 10 footer I look at, and days I make ZERO.

 

I EXPECT to make every single one. But in reality, I make somewhere around 40 to 50% of them. I literally never get down when I miss a putt now. The ball leaves my putter and it either goes in or it doesn't. I try to focus ONLY on my process of:

 

1) Read the green like a boss

2) Roll the ball on my line, at my speed

3) Watch the ball as it roles to see what it does as it approaches the hole

4) Later, Rinse, Repeat

 

David

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > >

> > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > >

> > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

> >

> > before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

> >

> > as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

>

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > >

> > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > >

> > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

> >

> > I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

>

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

> >

> > Helps keep the putter stable I find

>

> I appreciate the thoughts guys. And I’m listening to each one.

>

> I’m going to do something. I’m going to read , think and try to do a hard reset ( stealing Phil’s words ) even if just with same setup and putter. I need to take into account how much real committed putting practice I’m doing. I suspect it maybe less than I think even though I have a putting green at home. And the reason for that is that I hate it. Lol but I love wedge / iron practice. As in I do it for fun. It’s relaxing to me. I have a wedge range too. And if I have a spare 30 min to an hour I’m going to likely go to the wedge range for 50 or so balls.

>

> The reason I hate putting practice is I don’t make any there either. Lol. It’s not a relaxing event. It’s maddening. Some days I do wake up and make putts. But plenty of days I can stand at the same putt at home and miss 3 out of 5 or sometimes all 5. I try to practice 4 ft 8 ft and 15 ft putts. And I have some flat and some that break both right and left. But again. I don’t like to do it. So likely a self fulfilling prophecy.

>

> Question to you guys. If you have let’s say 8 looks at birdie inside 12 ft. How many do you reasonably expect to make ? What I’m getting at is what is a reasonable expectation? Also what is a reasonable expectation for bogeys in a round 2-4 ? I’m talking average. Not great days. Obviously the bigger numbers have to stop. That’s just a focus issue. Thanks in advance for all the listening.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @MtlJeff said:

> I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

>

> If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

>

> Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

>

> I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie

[bladehunter]

> @Obee said:

> All of the "how many looks inside __ feet" are soooo course/tee dependent.

>

> At my current home course (6517, 71.3/129) I may have 8+ looks inside 10 feet on a given day. At a longer, tougher course, maybe 2 or 3. Completely depends.

>

> I have days where I make almost every 6 - 10 footer I look at, and days I make ZERO.

>

> I EXPECT to make every single one. But in reality, I make somewhere around 40 to 50% of them. I literally never get down when I miss a putt now. The ball leaves my putter and it either goes in or it doesn't. I try to focus ONLY on my process of:

>

> 1) Read the green like a boss

> 2) Roll the ball on my line, at my speed

> 3) Watch the ball as it roles to see what it does as it approaches the hole

> 4) Later, Rinse, Repeat

>

> David

>

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > >

> > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > >

> > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

> > >

> > > before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

> > >

> > > as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

> >

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > >

> > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > >

> > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

> > >

> > > I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

> >

> > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

> > >

> > > Helps keep

[Obee]

Didn't you recently say that you were putting reasonably well? I can't imagine you've missed every 6 to 10 footer you've had the last six months. I find that impossible to believe.

 

Soooo, let's say you're an atrocious putter and you only make 8% of your 10 footers and 22% of your 6-footers. Well that's a GOOD thing. It means you suck, and it's time to FIX YOUR PUTTING.

 

I. Was. A. HORRIBLE. Putter. For. YEARS.

 

Let me put it another way: I was YOU.

 

And then I did something about it.

 

The FIRST thing was KNOWING that I had the capability to putt well if I made changes. I didn't know WHAT the changes needed to be, but I knew I was physically gifted enough (even though I had the yips) to become a very good, if not GREAT putter. Why? Because putting is stupid simple. If I could hit a 92mph slider on the black, I can putt a phocking ball on my line at my speed.

 

And so can you. ACKNOWLEDGE that you have the ability. Do that first for me, and then we can talk.

 

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Obee said:

> > All of the "how many looks inside __ feet" are soooo course/tee dependent.

> >

> > At my current home course (6517, 71.3/129) I may have 8+ looks inside 10 feet on a given day. At a longer, tougher course, maybe 2 or 3. Completely depends.

> >

> > I have days where I make almost every 6 - 10 footer I look at, and days I make ZERO.

> >

> > I EXPECT to make every single one. But in reality, I make somewhere around 40 to 50% of them. I literally never get down when I miss a putt now. The ball leaves my putter and it either goes in or it doesn't. I try to focus ONLY on my process of:

> >

> > 1) Read the green like a boss

> > 2) Roll the ball on my line, at my speed

> > 3) Watch the ball as it roles to see what it does as it approaches the hole

> > 4) Later, Rinse, Repeat

> >

> > David

> >

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

> > > >

> > > > before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

> > > >

> > > > as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

> > >

> > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

> > > >

> > > > I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

> > >

> > > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

> > > >

> > > > Helps keep the putter stable I find

> > >

> > > I appreciate the thoughts guys. And I’m listening to each one.

> > >

> > > I’m going to do something. I’m going to read , think and try to do a hard reset ( stealing Phil’s words ) even if just with same setup and putter. I need to take into account how much real committed putting practice I’m doing. I suspect it maybe less than I think even though I have a putting green at home. And the reason for that is that I hate it. Lol but I love wedge / iron practice. As in I do it for fun. It’s relaxing to me. I have a wedge range too. And if I have a spare 30 min to an hour I’m going to likely go to the wedge range for 50 or so balls.

> > >

> > > The reason I hate putting practice is I don’t make any there either. Lol. It’s not a relaxing event. It’s maddening. Some days I do wake up and make putts. But plenty of days I can stand at the same putt at home and miss 3 out of 5 or sometimes all 5. I try to practice 4 ft 8 ft and 15 ft putts. And I have some flat and some that break both right and left. But again. I don’t like to do it. So likely a self fulfilling prophecy.

> > >

> > > Question to you guys. If you have let’s say 8 looks at birdie inside 12 ft. How many do you reasonably expect to make ? What I’m getting at is what is a reasonable expectation? Also what is a reasonable expectation for bogeys in a round 2-4 ? I’m talking average. Not great days. Obviously the bigger numbers have to stop. That’s just a focus issue. Thanks in advance for all the listening.

> >

> >

>

> Please take this as conversation not arguing.

>

> If I may play devils advocate for my own info. What if I’ve been doing that for the last 3 months and still at zero ? Or near zero ? Is it an “ until” situation ?

>

> I guess I’m at a point of wanting to know when I’ve crossed the line of “keep going “ to the definition of insanity ? And as I say that I feel like I’m just over reacting. Like I just need to flush it and keep going.

>

> Anyway , I’m just rambling now. I sure do wish that putting came as Naturally to me as hitting a golf ball. It’s a cruel tease from my end. I just keep thinking I’ll stumble into “ it” at some point. If that makes any sense.

 

 

[MtlJeff]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

> >

> > If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

> >

> > Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

> >

> > I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie lol

>

> Yea. I get that too. I know 8 good looks is a lot. Definitely on the great end of the spectrum. Just used that as an example and can carve it down based on opportunities.

>

> Well my game sounds a lot like you. I’m probably going to make 3-4 bogeys most every round. And I expect 3-4 birdies minimum to cover those. Over or under par determined by the ratio of birdies to bogeys. Which is basically 99 % of the time putter driven for me. So I’m not off In left field on my expectations then ? I just am thinking it through and that’s what I had in mind as reasonable. My round high is 7 birdies and an eagle in a round. Which I did have 2 bogeys in as well for 65. That was a magical day , one where I hit a lot of approaches really close. I’m not expecting that. Anyway. Thanks for the info. It’s helps to know what is considered reasonable I think. It’s pretty clear to me that I have to figure out how to normalize rolling putts in. If that makes sense. As in the majority of my rounds I don’t see any putts go in. Thinking back over the last month. I may see 2-3 putts total over 5 feet go in a round. And that feels normal to me. But it’s obviously a very deficient situation. More so than I realized. I’ve been scoring on par 5s only and the occasional stone dead approach shot really.

 

How often do you play? I used to compare myself to Sergio Garcia in that I could really ball strike a course but didn't make a ton of putts. But I don't really know how many 10-20 footers amateurs with day jobs really make. You have to play a lot and get a ton of practice to make a lot of those. It comes from feel and hundreds of reps

 

I know very few guys, even + indexes , who have day jobs and are making lots of 10+ footers in every round. Most really good ams I think are like me or you. Very good tee to green players who are pretty good around the greens. But my guess is short game is by far the biggest gap between an AM and a pro. We just don't make putts like them.

[bladehunter]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

> > >

> > > If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

> > >

> > > Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

> > >

> > > I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie lol

> >

> > Yea. I get that too. I know 8 good looks is a lot. Definitely on the great end of the spectrum. Just used that as an example and can carve it down based on opportunities.

> >

> > Well my game sounds a lot like you. I’m probably going to make 3-4 bogeys most every round. And I expect 3-4 birdies minimum to cover those. Over or under par determined by the ratio of birdies to bogeys. Which is basically 99 % of the time putter driven for me. So I’m not off In left field on my expectations then ? I just am thinking it through and that’s what I had in mind as reasonable. My round high is 7 birdies and an eagle in a round. Which I did have 2 bogeys in as well for 65. That was a magical day , one where I hit a lot of approaches really close. I’m not expecting that. Anyway. Thanks for the info. It’s helps to know what is considered reasonable I think. It’s pretty clear to me that I have to figure out how to normalize rolling putts in. If that makes sense. As in the majority of my rounds I don’t see any putts go in. Thinking back over the last month. I may see 2-3 putts total over 5 feet go in a round. And that feels normal to me. But it’s obviously a very deficient situation. More so than I realized. I’ve been scoring on par 5s only and the occasional stone dead approach shot really.

>

> How often do you play? I used to compare myself to Sergio Garcia in that I could really ball strike a course but didn't make a ton of putts. But I don't really know how many 10-20 footers amateurs with day jobs really make. You have to play a lot and get a ton of practice to make a lot of those. It comes from feel and hundreds of reps

>

> I know very few guys, even + indexes , who have day jobs and are making lots of 10+ footers in every round. Most really good ams I think are like me or you. Very good tee to green players who are pretty good around the greens. But my guess is short game is by

[Obee]

If you FIRST fix your stroke such that it allows you to repeatedly hit your target at your speed, THEN you can accept that no matter how good you are, you will miss 50 - 60% of your ten footers. It's easy. It's actually the most calming thing ever. You go through you process and you roll the ball. It goes in or it doesn't.

 

When your stroke SUCKS, every putt is either: 1) a live-or-die ordeal filled with body contortions and emotions run amok; or 2) a "woe is me" Eeyore-fest.

 

Both of those suck.

 

There is a better way....

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

> > > >

> > > > If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

> > > >

> > > > Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

> > > >

> > > > I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie lol

> > >

> > > Yea. I get that too. I know 8 good looks is a lot. Definitely on the great end of the spectrum. Just used that as an example and can carve it down based on opportunities.

> > >

> > > Well my game sounds a lot like you. I’m probably going to make 3-4 bogeys most every round. And I expect 3-4 birdies minimum to cover those. Over or under par determined by the ratio of birdies to bogeys. Which is basically 99 % of the time putter driven for me. So I’m not off In left field on my expectations then ? I just am thinking it through and that’s what I had in mind as reasonable. My round high is 7 birdies and an eagle in a round. Which I did have 2 bogeys in as well for 65. That was a magical day , one where I hit a lot of approaches really close. I’m not expecting that. Anyway. Thanks for the info. It’s helps to know what is considered reasonable I think. It’s pretty clear to me that I have to figure out how to normalize rolling putts in. If that makes sense. As in the majority of my rounds I don’t see any putts go in. Thinking back over the last month. I may see 2-3 putts total over 5 feet go in a round. And that feels normal to me. But it’s obviously a very deficient situation. More so than I realized. I’ve been scoring on par 5s only and the occasional stone dead approach shot really.

> >

> > How often do you play? I used to compare myself to Sergio Garcia in that I could really ball strike a course but didn't make a ton of putts. But I don't really know how many 10-20 footers amateurs with day jobs really make. You have to play a lot and get a ton of practice to make a lot of those. It comes from feel and hundreds of reps

> >

> > I know very few guys, even + indexes , who have day jobs and are making lots of 10+ footers in every round. Most really good ams I think are like me or you. Very good tee to green players who are pretty good around the greens. But my guess is short game is by far the biggest gap between an AM and a pro. We just don't make putts like them.

>

> Well. I play minimum 1 full round a week. Usually get 9 on Monday and Wednesday or wed and Friday too. But I practice at least 5 out of 7 days since I have full shot space at home. So I think for my age and full time job I do see more club time than most.

>

> I’m not really trying by to compare myself to a pro. I get that gap is there and my youth is faded. I’m comparing myself to the players I play with and Against. Just a roll down and look at the tournament scores from my event. Click on names and you can see birdies made each round in green. Several guys I know have 4-6 a round for all 3 days. So they are making putts of length as i know their games and they aren’t knocking pins down. Again. I’m not trying to argue. I’m truly trying to dissect what is a reasonable goal and what isn’t.

>

> I like Obee expect a lot. I expect to hit every drive on the proper side of the fairway. And I also expect to hit every approach to the proper distance and sometimes am dissatisfied with a green hit in the wrong spot etc. and I want to make every putt. I guess I’m having trouble with understanding how you expect to make every putt and yet don’t care if you do or not ? I do care and I realize that’s probably part of my issue. But. I’m not sure how to turn it off. It’s wasting the work put in to get the ball into position. The 2/3 good shots to get a look. That work is wasted if you don’t convert. It would be like focusing on the extra pass in basketball and then not caring of the guy misses the layup. Don’t get any points for good passing. Sorry. I’m just verbalizing what I’m struggling with. Not claiming to be correct.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @Obee said:

> Didn't you recently say that you were putting reasonably well? I can't imagine you've missed every 6 to 10 footer you've had the last six months. I find that impossible to believe.

>

> Soooo, let's say you're an atrocious putter and you only make 8% of your 10 footers and 22% of your 6-footers. Well that's a GOOD thing. It means you suck, and it's time to FIX YOUR PUTTING.

>

> I. Was. A. HORRIBLE. Putter. For. YEARS.

>

> Let me put it another way: I was YOU.

>

> And then I did something about it.

>

> The FIRST thing was KNOWING that I had the capability to putt well if I made changes. I didn't know WHAT the changes needed to be, but I knew I was physically gifted enough (even though I had the yips) to become a very good, if not GREAT putter. Why? Because putting is stupid simple. If I could hit a 92mph slider on the black, I can putt a phocking ball on my line at my speed.

>

> And so can you. ACKNOWLEDGE that you have the ability. Do that first for me, and then we can talk.

>

>

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Obee said:

> > > All of the "how many looks inside __ feet" are soooo course/tee dependent.

> > >

> > > At my current home course (6517, 71.3/129) I may have 8+ looks inside 10 feet on a given day. At a longer, tougher course, maybe 2 or 3. Completely depends.

> > >

> > > I have days where I make almost every 6 - 10 footer I look at, and days I make ZERO.

> > >

> > > I EXPECT to make every single one. But in reality, I make somewhere around 40 to 50% of them. I literally never get down when I miss a putt now. The ball leaves my putter and it either goes in or it doesn't. I try to focus ONLY on my process of:

> > >

> > > 1) Read the green like a boss

> > > 2) Roll the ball on my line, at my speed

> > > 3) Watch the ball as it roles to see what it does as it approaches the hole

> > > 4) Later, Rinse, Repeat

> > >

> > > David

> > >

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

> > > > >

> > > > > before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

> > > > >

> > > > > as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

> > > >

> > > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

> > > >

> > > > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > > I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

> > > > >

> > > > > Helps keep the putter stable I find

> > > >

> > > > I appreciate the thoughts guys. And I’m listening to each one.

> > > >

> > > > I’m going to do something. I’m going to read , think and try to do a hard reset ( stealing Phil’s words ) even if just with same setup and putter. I need to take into account how much real committed putting practice I’m doing. I suspect it maybe less than I think even though I have a putting green at home. And the reason for that is that I hate it. Lol but I love wedge / iron practice. As in I do it for fun. It’s relaxing to me. I have a wedge range too. And if I have a spare 30 min to an hour I’m going to likely go to the wedge range for 50 or so balls.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I hate putting practice is I don’t make any there either. Lol. It’s not a relaxing event. It’s maddening. Some days I do wake up and make putts. But plenty of days I can stand at the same putt at home and miss 3 out of 5 or sometimes all 5. I try to practice 4 ft 8 ft and 15 ft putts. And I have some flat and some that break both right and left. But again. I don’t like to do it. So likely a self fulfilling prophecy.

> > > >

> > > > Question to you guys. If you have let’s say 8 looks at birdie inside 12 ft. How many do you reasonably expect to make ? What I’m getting at is what is a reasonable expectation? Also what is a reasonable expectation for bogeys in a round 2-4 ? I’m talking average. Not great days. Obviously the bigger numbers have to stop. That’s just a focus issue. Thanks in advance for all the listening.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Please take this as conversation not arguing.

> >

> > If I may play devils advocate for my own info. What if I’ve been doing that for the last 3 months and still at zero ? Or near zero ? Is it an “ until” situation ?

> >

> > I guess I’m at a point of wanting to know when I’ve crossed the line of “keep going “ to the definition of insanity ? And as I say that I feel like I’m just over reacting. Like I just need to flush it and keep going.

> >

> > Anyway , I’m just rambling now. I sure do wish that putting came as Naturally to me as hitting a golf ball. It’s a cruel tease from my end. I just keep thinking I’ll stumble into “ it” at some point. If that makes any

[bladehunter]

> @Obee said:

> If you FIRST fix your stroke such that it allows you to repeatedly hit your target at your speed, THEN you can accept that no matter how good you are, you will miss 50 - 60% of your ten footers. It's easy. It's actually the most calming thing ever. You go through you process and you roll the ball. It goes in or it doesn't.

>

> When your stroke SUCKS, every putt is either: 1) a live-or-die ordeal filled with body contortions and emotions run amok; or 2) a "woe is me" Eeyore-fest.

>

> Both of those suck.

>

> There is a better way....

>

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > > I play at a pretty tough course (75/140) or so, so I can make 5 bogeys pretty easy in a round.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I had 8 Putts from exactly 10-12 feet let's say, I'd probably expect to make 3 or 4. If they are shorter than that...like 5-6 feet than there's a higher expectation on those

> > > > >

> > > > > Everyone's game is different I guess. I don't hit it tight a lot but my course is also hard with decent size greens. I tend to have a lot of 20-25 footers. Maybe make 5 bogeys , 3 birdies and shoot 74. The birdies are usually a couple of medium putts and a tap in on a par 5. Stuff like that

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't think I've had a round in the last couple of years where I had like 8 decent looks at birdie lol

> > > >

> > > > Yea. I get that too. I know 8 good looks is a lot. Definitely on the great end of the spectrum. Just used that as an example and can carve it down based on opportunities.

> > > >

> > > > Well my game sounds a lot like you. I’m probably going to make 3-4 bogeys most every round. And I expect 3-4 birdies minimum to cover those. Over or under par determined by the ratio of birdies to bogeys. Which is basically 99 % of the time putter driven for me. So I’m not off In left field on my expectations then ? I just am thinking it through and that’s what I had in mind as reasonable. My round high is 7 birdies and an eagle in a round. Which I did have 2 bogeys in as well for 65. That was a magical day , one where I hit a lot of approaches really close. I’m not expecting that. Anyway. Thanks for the info. It’s helps to know what is considered reasonable I think. It’s pretty clear to me that I have to figure out how to normalize rolling putts in. If that makes sense. As in the majority of my rounds I don’t see any putts go in. Thinking back over the last month. I may see 2-3 putts total over 5 feet go in a round. And that feels normal to me. But it’s obviously a very deficient situation. More so than I realized. I’ve been scoring on par 5s only and the occasional stone dead approach shot really.

> > >

> > > How often do you play? I used to compare myself to Sergio Garcia in that I could really ball strike a course but didn't make a ton of putts. But I don't really know how many 10-20 footers amateurs with day jobs really make. You have to play a lot and get a ton of practice to make a lot of those. It comes from feel and hundreds of reps

> > >

> > > I know very few guys, even + indexes , who have day jobs and are making lots of 10+ footers in every round. Most really good ams I think are like me or you. Very good tee to green players who are pretty good around the greens. But my guess is short game is by far the biggest gap between an AM and a pro. We just don't make putts like them.

> >

> > Well. I play minimum 1 full round a week. Usually get 9 on Monday and Wednesday or wed and Friday too. But I practice at least 5 out of 7 days since I have full shot space at home. So I think for my age and full time job I do see more club time than most.

> >

> > I’m not really trying by to compare myself to a pro. I get that gap is there and my youth is faded. I’m comparing myself to the players I play with and Against. Just a roll down and look at the tournament scores from my event. Click on names and you can see birdies made each round in green. Several guys I know have 4-6 a round for all 3 days. So they are making putts of length as i know their games and they aren’t knocking pins down. Again. I’m not trying to argue. I’m truly trying to dissect what is a reasonable goal and what isn’t.

> >

> > I like Obee expect a lot. I expect to hit every drive on the proper side of the fairway. And I also expect to hit every approach to the proper distance and sometimes am dissatisfied with a green hit in the wrong spot etc. and I want to make every putt. I guess I’m having trouble with understanding how you expect to make every putt and yet don’t care if you do or not ? I do care and I realize that’s probably part of my issue. But. I’m not sure how to turn it off. It’s wasting the work put in to get the ball into position. The 2/3 good shots to get a look. That work is wasted if you don’t convert. It would be like focusing on the extra pass in basketball and then not caring of the guy misses the layup. Don’t get any points for good passing. Sorry. I’m just verbalizing what I’m struggling with. Not claiming to be correct.

>

>

 

Yep. Pretty much it. I don’t enjoy being terrible at anything. It’s not an easy thing to do , coming here and saying so and showing statistical proof of it. But here I am. If I didn’t have the drive I wouldn’t be here griping. I’m literally to the point of wanting to look into hiring somebody. And I’m not a rich guy. But I do believe in investing in yourself. And it seems foolish to not back myself given the time already put in to the rest of the game. In other words it’s like buying a nice boat that has a engine issue. You can row it around , or spend a little more to enjoy actually using it as intended. I believe I’d enjoy this game more if I saw a return on my long game once in a while.

 

Non of which is your fault or issue. I’m just again thinking out loud. And to clarify the question about what I said about turning the corner. I honestly thought at that time I had. I haven’t been 3 putting and I had managed some under par rounds. But it’s clear to me now that was due to 2 putt birdies on short par 5s and that it did not holdup this week under real pressure. It folded very quickly and completely.

[Ty_Webb]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > >

> > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > >

> > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that.

> >

> > before your round -- as your leaving the putting green you need to bang in (no joke) about 15 or so 3 footers for confidence. they'll give you the confidence for you to know that during your round -- "hey, it's just a 3 footer...you made a ton of these already today..." and the mind is now out of the short ones.

> >

> > as for the long ones, not sure what you need to work on aside from maybe an aimpoint class or something to get you in a confident spot for longer range stuff

>

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @bladehunter ...we gotta get you a mallet putter that's so dang stable you can't yip it.

> > > >

> > > > i echo Ty--- perhaps a claw grip will go a long way.

> > >

> > > Well. That’s the rub. First day was with spider X. Full white sight line and all. I like it for 20 footers. Hate it for 10 and less. I cannot do anything but blow it by the hole. And it’s not new. That’s with 4-5 months of practice with it. Put the old girl 009 back in Saturday and instant comfort. It’s not miss hits either. I’ve got a dime worn in the face of that 009. It’s misreads. And or speed. That kills confidence and the flinch comes after that. It’s between my ears. I just don’t know how to fix it. I’ve tried every approach from intense work before an event to literally just go out and try to feel comfortable and roll it. Same result really. If I make a couple i can cruise. If I miss a few I can cope. Once I miss 4-5 good looks I just start lagging putts up to not 3 putt. Not consciously missing on purpose. But not giving speed to get more than 5 inches by the cup. Which usually leads to a lot left short.

> >

> > I know this is out of left field, but given that your long game is so good, maybe drop a long iron and chuck in a second putter? Have one for longer putts and one for shorter ones. And use the left hand low on the short ones for heaven's sake!

>

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > I actually used to have a problem with short putts, but switching to a really heavy putter helped me a lot. I use either a 400g putter , or a heavy long counter balanced one.

> >

> > Helps keep the putter stable I find

>

> I appreciate the thoughts guys. And I’m listening to each one.

>

> I’m going to do something. I’m going to read , think and try to do a hard reset ( stealing Phil’s words ) even if just with same setup and putter. I need to take into account how much real committed putting practice I’m doing. I suspect it maybe less than I think even though I have a putting green at home. And the reason for that is that I hate it. Lol but I love wedge / iron practice. As in I do it for fun. It’s relaxing to me. I have a wedge range too. And if I have a spare 30 min to an hour I’m going to likely go to the wedge range for 50 or so balls.

>

> The reason I hate putting practice is I don’t make any there either. Lol. It’s not a relaxing event. It’s maddening. Some days I do wake up and make putts. But plenty of days I can stand at the same putt at home and miss 3 out of 5 or sometimes all 5. I try to practice 4 ft 8 ft and 15 ft putts. And I have some flat and some that break both right and left. But again. I don’t like to do it. So likely a self fulfilling prophecy.

>

> Question to you guys. If you have let’s say 8 looks at birdie inside 12 ft. How many do you reasonably expect to make ? What I’m getting at is what is a reasonable expectation? Also what is a reasonable expectation for bogeys in a round 2-4 ? I’m talking average. Not great days. Obviously the bigger numbers have to stop. That’s just a focus issue. Thanks in advance for all the listening.

 

If I have 8 looks at birdie from 10-12 ft, I'd expect to hole maybe 3 of them on average. PGA Tour average from 8 feet is 1.5, so they hole 50% of them. Think of that this way. Your pace from 8 feet should be pretty good. Shoot for 6 inches by the hole. If you miss within half a hole either side with every putt, then roughly half of them are going to go in. That's PGA Tour putting standard. So worry less about whether you hole it and more about whether you hit that window. If you do, then good putt. If not, then think about why. Did you read it right? Was it a bad stroke. I'd also say if you have an 8 foot putt that's breaking a foot, that's a hard putt. No one is holing that half the time. Likely more like 20% of the time. Those are unusual putts though and the straight uphill putts are more like 60% and it averages out. Similarly, from 20 feet, the pros make about 15% or 1 in 7. So 3 holes either side of the hole is your target (1 in 7 will go in) if your speed is right.

 

The other thing is what Nick Faldo used to say was "fulfill your half of the bargain". Read your putt and hit it where you read it. If you do that it doesn't really matter if it goes in or not. You did your part. Just do your part.

 

Then, I'd suggest trying all sorts of things. I went through this with my yippy thing. Mine mostly affected longer putts and chips, so that's what I focused on and wound up with the claw. Try putting from the other side of the ball. Try closing your eyes. Try looking at the hole while you putt. I forget who it was (Woody Austin?), but someone on tour was putting with one hand while pointing at the hole with his other hand. People do crazy stuff to try to putt well. Try it all. Find something. And then, if you try something and that works for a bit, great.

 

Also, never practice missing putts. If you are practising your putting and you're missing them, hit some shorter ones. 6 inches if you need to. Just get used to the ball going in the hole.

 

Lastly - I want you on my scramble team!

[copperjeff]

@bladehunter

Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

 

It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

 

If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

 

What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

 

If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

 

I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

 

Try it for a bit and see what happens.

[bladehunter]

> @copperjeff said:

> @bladehunter

> Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

>

> It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

>

> If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

>

> What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

>

> If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

>

> I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

>

> Try it for a bit and see what

[b.helts]

I think I’ve said this before, but the best lesson I ever got in golf was this: confidence is a choice.

 

You can choose to be confident or not.

 

With putting you don’t fool yourself into anything. You put in the work so you know you can roll the ball at the speed you’ve chosen and roll the ball on the correct line for that speed. There is nothing more you can do and anything less is lazy or noncommittal.

 

I don’t think you’re completely honest with yourself, which I think is probably the root of the issue you have. Keep in mind that’s only the sense I get, I don’t know you, so I don’t know.

 

Do you know Rodney Tapp?

[Ty_Webb]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @copperjeff said:

> > @bladehunter

> > Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

> >

> > It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

> >

> > If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

> >

> > What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

> >

> > If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

> >

> > I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

> >

> > Try it for a bit and see what happens.

>

> Yes. All those things are true. Yes.

>

> I can tell you which way it breaks. It’s the finite “in the cup out of the cup” thing that eludes me. Also why I prefer large slopping greens to flat ones. I can read them easier and just feel my way around. My home course is this way. Very few flat putts. I hate a straight looking putt. I much prefer to feed it into the hole from a slope. All 3 of the putts I made in the second round this weekend for birdie where more than 18 inches of break. One from around 40 ft that moved 3 feet. I saw that line so easy. When I’m about to make a putt I usually know it before hand. And oppositely I usually like beforehand that I’ll miss. When I can see the line I get over it knowing. But it’s relatively rare. Usually I’m over it thinking “ hmm. Will it dive across or hang in the hole ....”. Or “ my least favorite “ on the right edge or just out “. I usually lip those out or roll them over the edge. Give me a putt of 12 ft that moves a foot or more anyday. I’m convinced it’s mostly the read and the subsequent confidence or lack of confidence that comes from the read.

>

> That’s not to claim perfection with anything else. But I do hit a ton of putts that I think were on my intended line. They just don’t move how I thought. If I pull or Push one. I know it. Maybe a product of the home greens I learned to putt on. You just don’t see many putts that don’t move more than a cup. Not until you’re inside 3-4 ft.

 

That's an interesting post. One thought I have is if you read a putt "on the edge" be sure that when you visualize where the ball is going to go that you focus on the middle of the hole. Sometimes if you read a putt on the edge, it's easy to focus on the edge and your subconscious mind restates the target as on the edge. Then your subconscious tries to have the ball finish on the edge. If a putt is breaking a foot, then you're more likely focusing on that as the start line and the hole as the goal. Might be worth thinking about if that's what you're doing.

[MtlJeff]

> @"b.helts" said:

> I think I’ve said this before, but the best lesson I ever got in golf was this: confidence is a choice.

>

> You can choose to be confident or not.

>

> With putting you don’t fool yourself into anything. You put in the work so you know you can roll the ball at the speed you’ve chosen and roll the ball on the correct line for that speed. There is nothing more you can do and anything less is lazy or noncommittal.

>

> I don’t think you’re completely honest with yourself, which I think is probably the root of the issue you have. Keep in mind that’s only the sense I get, I don’t know you, so I don’t know.

>

> Do you know Rodney Tapp?

 

I've always felt confidence is just the knowledge that you can do something. When my game had serious flaws i wasn't confident, and people would tell me "you're just in your own head". I never felt i was in my own head, i just knew my game had flaws

 

the past couple of years i've figured out some important parts of my game/swing (how to eliminate a side of the course with pretty much every club for example) and have played some great rounds in competition this year. Some guys have said "oh you've just figured it out mentally"....no not really i don't think anyway. I just go into rounds now knowing i'm better.

[bladehunter]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @"b.helts" said:

> > I think I’ve said this before, but the best lesson I ever got in golf was this: confidence is a choice.

> >

> > You can choose to be confident or not.

> >

> > With putting you don’t fool yourself into anything. You put in the work so you know you can roll the ball at the speed you’ve chosen and roll the ball on the correct line for that speed. There is nothing more you can do and anything less is lazy or noncommittal.

> >

> > I don’t think you’re completely honest with yourself, which I think is probably the root of the issue you have. Keep in mind that’s only the sense I get, I don’t know you, so I don’t know.

> >

> > Do you know Rodney Tapp?

>

> I've always felt confidence is just the knowledge that you can do something. When my game had serious flaws i wasn't confident, and people would tell me "you're just in your own head". I never felt i was in my own head, i just knew my game had flaws

>

> the past couple of years i've figured out some important parts of my game/swing (how to eliminate a side of the course with pretty much every club for example) and have played some great rounds in competition this year. Some guys have said "oh you've just figured it out mentally"....no not really i don't think anyway. I just go into rounds now knowing i'm better.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @"b.helts" said:

> I think I’ve said this before, but the best lesson I ever got in golf was this: confidence is a choice.

>

> You can choose to be confident or not.

>

> With putting you don’t fool yourself into anything. You put in the work so you know you can roll the ball at the speed you’ve chosen and roll the ball on the correct line for that speed. There is nothing more you can do and anything less is lazy or noncommittal.

>

> I don’t think you’re completely honest with yourself, which I think is probably the root of the issue you have. Keep in mind that’s only the sense I get, I don’t know you, so I don’t know.

>

> Do you know Rodney Tapp?

 

 

That name sounds familiar. But I can’t place him. Is he local to me ?

 

 

I may not be. I think anyone is guilty of that. In what way do you mean ? No offense taken. I’ll answer it honestly.

 

I disagree about confidence being a choice. It has to be rooted in something. It won’t hold up if it’s not. You probably have actual confidence in your putting. Hard to explain the difference. But there is one.

[copperjeff]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @copperjeff said:

> > @bladehunter

> > Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

> >

> > It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

> >

> > If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

> >

> > What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

> >

> > If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

> >

> > I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

> >

> > Try it for a bit and see what happens.

>

> Yes. All those things are true. Yes.

>

> I can tell you which way it breaks. It’s the finite “in the cup out of the cup” thing that eludes me. Also why I prefer large slopping greens to flat ones. I can read them easier and just feel my way around. My home course is this way. Very few flat putts. I hate a straight looking putt. I much prefer to feed it into the hole from a slope. All 3 of the putts I made in the second round this weekend for birdie where more than 18 inches of break. One from around 40 ft that moved 3 feet. I saw that line so easy. When I’m about to make a putt I usually know it before hand. And oppositely I usually like beforehand that I’ll miss. When I can see the line I get over it knowing. But it’s relatively rare. Usually I’m over it thinking “ hmm. Will it dive across or hang in the hole ....”. Or “ my least favorite “ on the right edge or just out “. I usually lip those out or roll them over the edge. Give me a putt of 12 ft that moves a foot or more anyday. I’m convinced it’s mostly the read and the subsequent confidence or lack of confidence that comes from the read.

>

> That’s not to claim perfection with anything else. But I do hit a ton of putts that I think were on my intended line. They just don’t move how I thought. If I pull or Push one. I know it. Maybe a product of the home greens I learned to putt on. You just don’t see many putts that don’t move more than a cup. Not until you’re inside 3-4 ft.

 

After reading this I feel even more confident that you just don't hit the putts at the same speed you read the line at.

 

Without seeing and talking face to face, just based on the above I'd bet the line you see is pretty close to die it in, but you hit anything within 15ft at a much firmer pace.

[bladehunter]

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @copperjeff said:

> > > @bladehunter

> > > Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

> > >

> > > If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

> > >

> > > What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

> > >

> > > If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

> > >

> > > I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

> > >

> > > Try it for a bit and see what happens.

> >

> > Yes. All those things are true. Yes.

> >

> > I can tell you which way it breaks. It’s the finite “in the cup out of the cup” thing that eludes me. Also why I prefer large slopping greens to flat ones. I can read them easier and just feel my way around. My home course is this way. Very few flat putts. I hate a straight looking putt. I much prefer to feed it into the hole from a slope. All 3 of the putts I made in the second round this weekend for birdie where more than 18 inches of break. One from around 40 ft that moved 3 feet. I saw that line so easy. When I’m about to make a putt I usually know it before hand. And oppositely I usually like beforehand that I’ll miss. When I can see the line I get over it knowing. But it’s relatively rare. Usually I’m over it thinking “ hmm. Will it dive across or hang in the hole ....”. Or “ my least favorite “ on the right edge or just out “. I usually lip those out or roll them over the edge. Give me a putt of 12 ft that moves a foot or more anyday. I’m convinced it’s mostly the read and the subsequent confidence or lack of confidence that comes from the read.

> >

> > That’s not to claim perfection with anything else. But I do hit a ton of putts that I think were on my intended line. They just don’t move how I thought. If I pull or Push one. I know it. Maybe a product of the home greens I learned to putt on. You just don’t see many putts that don’t move more than a cup. Not until you’re inside 3-4 ft.

>

> That's an interesting post. One thought I have is if you read a putt "on the edge" be sure that when you visualize where the ball is going to go that you focus on the middle of the hole. Sometimes if you read a putt on the edge, it's easy to focus on the edge and your subconscious mind restates the target as on the edge. Then your subconscious tries to have the ball finish on the edge. If a putt is breaking a foot, then you're more likely focusing on that as the start line and the hole as the goal. Might be worth thinking about if that's what you're doing.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @copperjeff said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @copperjeff said:

> > > @bladehunter

> > > Ive got a theory about your putting struggles. Its probably a little different, but hear me out.

> > >

> > > It sounds like your stroke is fine. You hit the middle of the face. Your speed control sounds like it's within reason. It also sounds like you arent completely incompetent at reading a green. (As in you've got a general sense of what the break is, but nailing it specifically is troublesome.) Also sounds like you are ok at hitting the line you want.

> > >

> > > If I'm wrong on any of the above please correct me.

> > >

> > > What I think might be happening is the speed you read the putt at just doesnt match the actual pace you hit the putt at.

> > >

> > > If I'm right, it means you can yip some putts because your subconscious knows you dont have it right. It also means you don't have a consistent miss (high/low/short/long) because every putt is trying to compensate for the inequity you created.

> > >

> > > I believe it's easier to adjust the pace you hit the putt rather than the read you come up with. So, go to your practice green, find a 6ft putt with some break and roll putts at all different speeds until the ball rolls the full line you read. Maybe you have to die it in the hole, maybe you have to hit it 3ft past speed.

> > >

> > > Try it